DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Learn how improving your soil can lead to a better looking lawn
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DanielF
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DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Post by DanielF » June 13th, 2020, 9:13 am

Hey all,


Decided to get a soil test done, A little late than never..

Image

10,540 sqft lawn space, new home construction 5 years ago, irrigation installed 3 years ago. Had a service doing fertilization for 4 years, this year decided to stop and start a hybrid program after starting to read up on ATY. I knew I had compacted soil as the soil cracks (1/2" irrigated areas when bone dry, 3/4" - 1" where there is no irrigation which is where neighbor does not have irrigation and wooden fence).

Sunny expect for 1K mostly shade

TTTF/NoMix lawn

bumpy yard, will be using top soil or top soil/compost blend (70/30) to level before overseed in August (thoughts/suggestions?)

Shallow roots, I finally succumbed and did a Tuna (well chicken, do not like to eat that much tuna) can test this year and lawn is evenly getting 0.5" per hour throughout. Squeeky sound after watering 30 minutes 2x with a 1hr window between sessions.

Started BLS treatments last month 4oz/k, was originally planning once a month, but might move that up to Bi-weekly treatment.

Front yard and back yard center sections both goes dormant real quick. Lawn thins out in sunny areas when weather gets up there, but returns 90%

I know I am low on my nitrogen feeding as the grass goes lighter green 2-3 weeks after spreading 1lb/k nitrogen.

Looking for best suggestions, and am willing to take on Micros if needed. I know Organics need to go up and will supplement mulch mowing with the addition of compost by mean of trying to use the peat roller? Question is that if I start now, will that pose challenges when I try to level before the overseed?

Also just for my knowledge I did have Logan do a Physical Analysis and it came back 46% Clay, 45.9% Silt, 8.1% Sand. Results Silty Clay... I can provide Sand Fractions if needed.

Thanks in Advance!

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andy10917
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Re: DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » June 13th, 2020, 9:18 am

Please add a Link into the Soil Test Interpretation Queue that points to this thread. At the moment I write this, the Queue was empty.

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andy10917
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Re: DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » June 18th, 2020, 8:42 pm

That's definitely a calcareous soil (extreme Calcium and Magnesium). Do you want to call Logan Labs and have them retest with Ammonium Acetate, or do you want me to put forward my best guess as to what that test might show?

Please respond.

DanielF
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Re: DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Post by DanielF » June 18th, 2020, 8:47 pm

Let me give them a call in the morning and we can go from there.

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andy10917
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Re: DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » June 20th, 2020, 8:09 am

Any decision?


DanielF
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Re: DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Post by DanielF » June 21st, 2020, 9:02 pm

I did not get a chance to call on Friday, however I sent an email (hopefully get a response) otherwise will call on Monday (Tomorrow) to see if they still have my soil sample and get them to run AA 8.2.

DanielF
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Re: DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Post by DanielF » June 24th, 2020, 8:14 pm

Here is the new test using AA 8.2

Image

DanielF
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Re: DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Post by DanielF » June 25th, 2020, 9:32 pm

Here is the revised for 4 inch depth

Image

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andy10917
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Re: DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » June 25th, 2020, 10:53 pm

Notice how the AA test paints a very different picture?

I'll probably get to this one tomorrow - it's getting late and tomorrow is a big day.

DanielF
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Re: DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Post by DanielF » June 25th, 2020, 11:11 pm

I did see many numbers shift to a less skewed value, however I am confused on how the desired value changes as well. Assumption is that is due to the ME decrease. (I specialize in the Hospitality industry... Chemistry is not my strong suit).

Thank you for taking the time, can't wait to see what the suggestions are!

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andy10917
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Re: DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » June 29th, 2020, 7:55 am

Alright, let's handle your soil test first, and your questions after that...

That's a heavier, calcareous soil and it needs a good amount of attention. While you might see some turnaround this season, it's really going to take 2-3 years to really change. The TEC at 24 and OM% at 2+% mean that attention to organic matter supplementation must be a central theme of you efforts.

There's little that needs to be pointed out about the cations - Calcium and Magnesium are at excessive levels and making your soil what it is. They have crowded out the Potassium, which is at 0.74% of the base saturations when it should be at 4% or so. There is nothing that can be done about the excessive Calcium and Magnesium.

And in the anions, Phosphorus levels are at some of the lowest I've seen this year.

When both Phosphorus and Potassium are very low, I always turn to balanced fertilizers like 10-10-10, 19-19-19 or similar. Often sold as "garden fertilizer" or "all-purpose fertilizer", they deliver both while bringing in the Nitrogen in a single app. Chose one and post the NPK for application rates and frequency, but do not start your regimen until August 15th - we don't want to force growth between July 1 and August 15th.

Iron levels are poor, and that will affect color - research foliar applications of FAS, but take it very easy while the temperatures are above 80 degrees.

In the micro's, things are good enough for the foreseeable future - we'll tweak them when things have turned around.

Now, here's a big question - can the budget handle the use of Humates a couple times a year? I really think that they could be a big part of solving the cracking and lack of water retention.

Let's keep this thread going - I have lots of ideas that might work well for you.

Questions?

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MorpheusPA
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Re: DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Post by MorpheusPA » June 29th, 2020, 4:16 pm

One from me. Are you entirely happy with the fact that balanced fertilizers are going to be chlorides in terms of the potassium source, as a general rule? I avoid them for that fact and still tend to recommend starter fertilizer plus potassium sulfate.

In Daniel's case, at a pH of 8.4, 21 PPA P, 0.74% K and with that EC (even with the overinflation and turning it down to a comfier 16)...I'm a bit more comfortable with an alternating load of fall/spring chlorides and sulfates, however, just to save some cash and do the dash. The Cl might even bond with some Ca, but let's not get ahead of ourselves...

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andy10917
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Re: DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » June 29th, 2020, 5:34 pm

I allow Chlorides for the early part of a remediation project, and ramp it down as the soil begins to behave. Also, the member gets experienced with locating tougher-to-find materials in their area. That lawn/soil has 3 years to become behaved. The first year is "Keep It Simple", and get the numbers out of the basement.

DanielF
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Re: DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Post by DanielF » June 29th, 2020, 10:55 pm

FINALLY!! I thought I was forgotten about. haha. Thank you for taking the time.

Well, some of it does not surprise me.
13-13-13 Ideal Brand (Urea, Diammonium Phosphate, MOP) Menards
14-14-14 Lesco (Urea, Ammonium Phosphate, SOP All Poly coated)
18-18-18 Shur-Crop(Urea, MonoAmmonium Phosphate, MOP) Tractor Supply

All available

Difference between the phosphates? Leaning towards the 18-18-18 or 13-13-13, the Lesco with poly is not really selling it for me..

Possible to go organic? Considering a dog that likes to eat anything and everything as well as the Mrs. who wants to go organic, and i have 14 bags of milorganite.

I also have 80 lbs of Corn Gluten Meal, which I might as well drop to help with some OM since I have it.

I dropped 1lb/k of Humic DG in May, was planning on dropping another 1lb/K this coming weekend. After that I will still have 2 bags remaining. Reading up on the Humates articles you posted, I saw you mentioned on your Humates conversation with Logan Labs you were testing 4-5lb per year, which is what I was planning on doing (May, July, Sept, Novish..). I also have the humic acid, but based on other threads, seems as though I should just go with Kelp, but since I have it might as well just throw it in there.. So simple answer, Yes I can handle humates.

And you two lost me at the Cl part, only Cl that i know is pool/spa waters...

FAS I will probably wait until September (Temps) if it is even worth it at that point, most likely next year.

There is a company here that can blow compost across the yard, but want to wait until I level the yard. I guess that will turn into a quarterly routine to help get the OM levels up. Anything else besides, compost, mulching grass, leaves (which we barely have with the young trees). I know the organics that will increase OM and provide slow release Nitrogen, however I do not think the microbial life is that strong in the soil yet.

Thanks!

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andy10917
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Re: DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » June 30th, 2020, 8:22 am

Difference between the phosphates? Leaning towards the 18-18-18 or 13-13-13, the Lesco with poly is not really selling it for me..
OK - so pick the 13-13-13 or 18-18-18 and tell me which to calculate rates for.
Possible to go organic? Considering a dog that likes to eat anything and everything as well as the Mrs. who wants to go organic, and i have 14 bags of milorganite.
I'm a supporter of organic/natural stuff, but for a remediation program with deep deficiencies like yours, you're looking at a decade of applying organics/natural stuff to get the numbers in range. A program that uses synthetics for 2-3 years to remediate the deficiencies can actually get you to an organic-use program faster. Your call - if you want only organics, I'll send you off to find that stuff and work with you - but it will take searching and much larger quantities. Neither the 13-13-13 nor 18-18-18 is going to hurt the dog.
So simple answer, Yes I can handle humates.
Go ahead and apply it then.
I know the organics that will increase OM and provide slow release Nitrogen, however I do not think the microbial life is that strong in the soil yet.
It will come. Applying humates can accelerate it somewhat.

DanielF
Posts: 13
Joined: May 4th, 2020, 9:50 am
Location: Olathe, KS
Grass Type: NoMix
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
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Re: DanielF 2020 Soil Test

Post by DanielF » June 30th, 2020, 10:19 pm

18-18-18 it shall be. 2-3 years sounds alot better than 10+

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