Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Learn how improving your soil can lead to a better looking lawn
gwolf64
Posts: 115
Joined: January 29th, 2016, 1:15 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Grass Type: Bermuda
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by gwolf64 » February 22nd, 2021, 10:24 am

Im excited for season 2 on the new house! Attached is my 2020 and 2021 test. I know sodium was a problem last year and I'm excited to see that number go down. The test says 6". That is an error. I measured every sample at 3-4"

Lawn size 11.5k SF
Bermuda
Irrigation @ 1" per week or via precipitation
I overseeded with rye this winter plan on killing rye this weekend with MSM
I want the best approach
Experience = 7 years on this program. "Advanced"

Image

Image

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29184
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » February 22nd, 2021, 10:50 pm

I think you posted last year's test twice, and this year's test is MIA...

gwolf64
Posts: 115
Joined: January 29th, 2016, 1:15 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Grass Type: Bermuda
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by gwolf64 » February 22nd, 2021, 11:11 pm

oops Sorry Andy. Here is this year's test.
Image

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29184
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » February 23rd, 2021, 6:56 pm

Greg, did you keep a diary of what you applied last year? If you did, please post the applications. While the Sodium problem was solved (almost done), the TEC dropped from 5.59% to 3.73%, and everything tumbled down the stairs with it - hitting its head on every step!!

Tell me a story - please!!

gwolf64
Posts: 115
Joined: January 29th, 2016, 1:15 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Grass Type: Bermuda
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by gwolf64 » February 23rd, 2021, 8:34 pm

Here is my diary.
Image


User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29184
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » February 23rd, 2021, 8:39 pm

Where the hell did it go?

gwolf64
Posts: 115
Joined: January 29th, 2016, 1:15 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Grass Type: Bermuda
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by gwolf64 » February 23rd, 2021, 8:45 pm

andy10917 wrote:
February 23rd, 2021, 8:39 pm
Where the hell did it go?

My my diary? It’s in my last post? What do you mean?

User avatar
MorpheusPA
Posts: 16641
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
Grass Type: Elite KBG
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Advanced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by MorpheusPA » February 25th, 2021, 2:39 pm

Andy's wondering where all the applications of everything went. So am I.

Tell me, did you preferentially test from the deeper part of the test zone? As in, did you discard the first half inch or inch of the test to avoid contaminating it? That would answer any number of questions for me. Stuff does take time to perk down, depending on how it binds. Most notably phosphorus, but other things, too.

gwolf64
Posts: 115
Joined: January 29th, 2016, 1:15 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Grass Type: Bermuda
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by gwolf64 » February 25th, 2021, 4:03 pm

I did nothing special. Followed the same process I’ve used for years. Use a shovel lift up a chuck and grass and soil. Then measure with a tape take a sample between the 3” and 4” mark. I did this in 6 areas in the yard. Only thing I did different last year is I used an overseeder to plat PRG. Did the PRG rob the nutrients from the soil during the Bermuda “off season”? I’m at a loss.

gwolf64
Posts: 115
Joined: January 29th, 2016, 1:15 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Grass Type: Bermuda
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by gwolf64 » February 25th, 2021, 5:07 pm

I am noticing my PRG turn yellow. Is this formal for February?

User avatar
MorpheusPA
Posts: 16641
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
Grass Type: Elite KBG
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Advanced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by MorpheusPA » February 25th, 2021, 6:45 pm

"take a sample between the 3” and 4” mark. "

Ding. P infiltrates very slowly. Boron isn't particularly swift. There's no way the P, at least, has made it down 3" in a year. I know what my response is to your test, personally, and I'm fine with the numbers I'm seeing.

"I am noticing my PRG turn yellow. Is this formal for February?"

Completely. If you haven't fed it, it's probably nitrogen short. Since it's just an overplanting on Bermuda, don't worry about it.

gwolf64
Posts: 115
Joined: January 29th, 2016, 1:15 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Grass Type: Bermuda
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by gwolf64 » February 25th, 2021, 8:10 pm

Each year I follow the soil sample instructions. Taking samples between 3-4”... Didn’t know P takes a while to get to depth. Good to know. This house was built then it sat for 2 years until we bought it. The builder did nothing to the lawn for the 2 years. It was full of weeds and thin Bermuda. I mentally prepared myself for a lot of work to get this soil chemistry perfect. (It took 5 years of work on my last house to get praise from Andy. Haha.)

What is the recommendation for this year?

User avatar
MorpheusPA
Posts: 16641
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
Grass Type: Elite KBG
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Advanced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by MorpheusPA » February 25th, 2021, 8:41 pm

Since Andy's in the loop here and seems to dislike the TEC (I'm writing it off to variance in sampling and OM), I'm going to defer to him here. I know what I'd do, part of which involves not panicking and carrying a towel.

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29184
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » February 25th, 2021, 10:15 pm

It's much more than the TEC that's bothering me here...

I've spent 2.5 hours on this, studied the hell out of it, taped the old and new tests together and studied everything including Google nonsense, written down and disproved theories, and all I get is that there are two possibilities. And those two point in exactly the opposite directions!!!

(1) the nutrients all leached out and are in China.
(2) the Humates all stayed at shallow depth and are holding the nutrients at a shallow depth.

Either theory makes no real sense.

You added many nutrients, and everything went down. Yes, the Sodium went down (good news) from the Gypsum, but the Calcium went down when it should have risen. The pH should have fallen on Sodium going down (Sodium is the strongest pH increaser) - it didn't. Across the board, that's the pattern.

I reviewed your plan and applications - I think this was (and IS) a good plan. I would stay with it and repeat it for a second year, if there was visual improvement. If there was no visual improvement, let me know and I'll try something else. If we get a repeat of this set of test results in 2022 - (something is telling me that you won't) we'll assume the first theory is true. I'm recommending staying the course for now, even though the definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over - and expecting a different result.

Sorry, Greg - I wish I could be more confident, but I can't I tried...

gwolf64
Posts: 115
Joined: January 29th, 2016, 1:15 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Grass Type: Bermuda
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by gwolf64 » February 25th, 2021, 10:52 pm

Thanks for all the hard work! I’ll give it a go again. I wonder if being waterfront on a 2 acre pond has anything to do with this. Also, my street sheet flows water toward my lot with no curbs. Am I crazy to think some of my application flow into the pond?

bpgreen
Posts: 3601
Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 2:28 am
Location: Utah (Wasatch Front)
Grass Type: Western, Streambank, Crested wheatgrass in front (with blue grama added in the heckstrips), sheep fescue in back; strawberry clovetr in both
Lawn Size: 3000-5000
Level: Experienced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by bpgreen » February 25th, 2021, 11:18 pm

MorpheusPA wrote:
February 25th, 2021, 8:41 pm
Since Andy's in the loop here and seems to dislike the TEC (I'm writing it off to variance in sampling and OM), I'm going to defer to him here. I know what I'd do, part of which involves not panicking and carrying a towel.
A towel is, of course, about the most massively useful thing you can have.

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29184
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » February 26th, 2021, 9:14 am

Greg, was there any visual improvement in the lawn last year?

gwolf64
Posts: 115
Joined: January 29th, 2016, 1:15 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Grass Type: Bermuda
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by gwolf64 » February 26th, 2021, 12:27 pm

For sure!
Image

User avatar
MorpheusPA
Posts: 16641
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
Grass Type: Elite KBG
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Advanced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by MorpheusPA » February 26th, 2021, 3:39 pm

My off the cuff (no data) hypothesis is that there's a higher EC layer near the soil surface binding the resources. They're not leaching down into the lower layers, but we're not getting good data due to the sampling procedure. For sandier soils with mulched mowing, that's entirely possible. Sodium will dispel, but the sand isn't going to grab a lot of...well, anything.

Next year, I'd take a full profile sample (surface to 4") instead of 3" to 4" so we get the data from the entire profile. The grass' feeder roots are mostly gathering resources from the top two inches anyway.

gwolf64
Posts: 115
Joined: January 29th, 2016, 1:15 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Grass Type: Bermuda
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Gwolf64's - 2021 Soil Test

Post by gwolf64 » February 26th, 2021, 9:36 pm

EC layer? So it sounds like this EC layer drives the sampling method...?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest