The grade is pretty flat. Putting in a drainage pipe that deep would only mean it could daylight somewhere deeper if I want gravity to help.Kmartel wrote:What is the grade of the area?? Is is possible to install a drainage pipe under the tree and trench it to daylight?? You do not want to plant that tree in the current situation as it is sure to struggle.
From another arborist:I appreciate your asking me for advice on the drainage problem. Judging by the photographs you sent me and given the current drought, there's no doubt that a soil drainage (percolation) problem. If the soil drained well, the water should have completely drained within less than an hour. The river birch you removed is known for its tolerance for poorly-drained soil. However, most species of maple require moist but well-drained soil to do well; the spot you've described is likely to be unsuitable. But as you have already purchased the tree, I can recommend two options. First, plant it wherever you may have higher ground on the property if it's possible. Second, you can try planting the Japanese maple where the river birch stood, but at a significantly higher planting level, that is, by 14 inches or more. Assuming the maple is fairly small (1 to 1-1/2 inches base caliper), I would plant the tree on a broad mound of compost-enriched topsoil of about one yard(imagine a pitcher's mound) . Proper planting of a tree or shrub is crucial to its health: when you plant the tree, be sure to remove the wire cage if it has one, and remove all of the burlap. If it's grown in a container, lay the container on its side, slit the plastic container lenghthwise in two or three places, and then gently pull or roll the root ball out holding the bottom of the stem. You will see a dense wall of roots once it is out of the container. Cut slits in the sides of the root ball vertically, about one-half inch deep and one to two inches apart; doing this helps prevent the development of circling roots which may choke the tree in the future. Don't worry about the ball cracking or falling apart (maples have fibrous roots, so their planting balls are usually solid). Once the tree is prepared and in the planting hole, be certain of the next two things:the base of the trunk should be slightly above ground level, and all roots should extend more or less radially from the trunk base. Any roots that cross the trunk instead of radiating outwards should be cut off, as they will later expand to girdle the trunk. If you don't see a trunk flare at all, it's probably buried below the soil level of the container or root ball. Given the fibrous structure of maple root systems, the roots will frequently grow into the soil above the root flare if it's planted too deep. These roots must be pulled away with your hands or gently cut away with a knife until the root flare is exposed. Next, backfill the hole with soil half-way, fill it with water, let it soak away, backfill again to the level of the root flare, and form a shallow saucer-shaped depression around the root flare of about two feet in diameter to hold irrigation water. Fill this two or three times and then let it drain. I would cover the soil mound with 2-3 inches of mulch (no deeper) ; but be sure to keep the area immediately around the root flare free of mulch.
Planted in this way, the Japanese maple in question stands a good chance of doing well, as it has a well drained area of soil to grow in and enough moisture to sustain it from beneath.
I hope this information will be helpful; by all means contact me if you have any additional questions."
After reading these responses and doing a bunch of other googling on planting trees in poorly draining soil the prevailing thought is to get a 6 to 10 foot 1" to 2" (depending on how it looks when I see it in person) conduit or metal fence post and pound it into the hole at all different directions (down, sideways, in between), pull it out and fill the left behind voids with a mixture of pea gravel and sand. The thought is to give the water a place to go. I'm hoping that 6 or 10' down there will be better draining soil (as someone had mentioned). If not, at least there will be a few square feet of surface area for the water to drain to so it isn't sitting in and around the roots. I feel like doing this, plus raising the rootball so the top of it is out of the hole 4 or 6" tips the trees odds of survival in it's (my) favor.I read your email and examined your pictures thoroughly regarding the planting hole for your Japanese maple tree.
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Very good point. I had some fence work done not too long ago and the utility markers were still present. Wouldn't you know it that I appear to have an electrical line and gas line running right under the hole. Fudge. That's Murphy for you.LoneRanger wrote:Have the utilities marked before you start. Depending on your soil type, either conduit or black pipe will work, if sharpened of course.
It does, doesn't it? When drink thinking usernames don't come to mind, but I knew it sounded familiar. Thank you!TimmyG wrote:Hmmm...sounds an awful lot like my advice on both counts (penetrate the impermeable layer and plant high).
I wish I could do the post hole method, but given gas and electrical lines, it's probably not a wise idea. Also, with all the rocks and shale, it's a real bear. It took me 3 or so hours to dig a 2 foot deep hole for my mailbox with a post hole digger. I was hoping a brut force pounding, with something like this, might make the task a little easier.TimmyG wrote:As I first recommended, do see if you have an impermeable layer than can be broken through. Although the auger method I suggested would be much easier and result in larger holes, it can't hurt to try pounding a chainlink fence post in there (don't waste your time with anything under 2"). But if you have access to a post hole digger, get as deep as you can with that first. That may even be enough to get the job done as you can get about 4 ft down with those. But don't just pound holes and fill them with gravel without investigating the layers of soil that you're removing and repeating the percolation test. Unless you penetrate the impermeable layer, adding gravel isn't going to help.
I will do this as much as I can. There are several established plants in the vicinity, so I can't get too crazy.TimmyG wrote:There's absolutely nothing wrong with elevating the planting level by forming a broad mound, just as the helpful arborist above also recommended. It's a Japanese maple; make the mound a landscape feature. The soil temperature of the mound in the winter will differ negligibly from the original grade, and there won't be any increased risk to the roots. I heel in dozens of potted perennials, shrubs, and trees outside over the winter every year, just as the nurseries do, and it doesn't take much to insulate the roots as long as there is ground contact. I have also mounded (or regraded) when I've felt that water-logged soil may be a seasonal issue.
chrismar wrote:I wish I could do the post hole method, but given gas and electrical lines, it's probably not a wise idea. Also, with all the rocks and shale, it's a real bear. It took me 3 or so hours to dig a 2 foot deep hole for my mailbox with a post hole digger. I was hoping a brut force pounding, with something like this, might make the task a little easier.
Whoa. How would brut force pounding of a metal pipe into the ground be any less risky than using a (manual) post hole digger? Either way, you should know where your utility lines are. And legally, logically, and preferably, you should probably call DigSafe or your local equivalent to mark those out if you don't know. Never plant a tree atop any of those utility lines, let alone blindly dig.Yes, totally off base. It doesn't take 15" of rain to saturate 15" of soil. Water in the soil doesn't work that way. If you truly have an impermeable layer down there, far less rain than that could leave the tree's feet in water-logged soil for an extended period of time. Japanese maples won't put up with that for long.chrismar wrote:While doing some bed thinking last night and this morning, it occurred to me that a 15" rain event is pretty unlikely, so even raising it a little should not only keep the roots out of water most of the time, but it should also help sheet the water off in other directions. Is my thinking totally off base here?
Definitely not less risky. I should have clarified. The markers were still present from the fence work I had done the week before last, so I know there are electric and gas lines that run either directly under the hole, or very close to it.TimmyG wrote:
Well that's a bummer. I guess I'm back to square one, then. Fudge. Again.Yes, totally off base. It doesn't take 15" of rain to saturate 15" of soil. Water in the soil doesn't work that way. If you truly have an impermeable layer down there, far less rain than that could leave the tree's feet in water-logged soil for an extended period of time. Japanese maples won't put up with that for long.
Where were you 3 days ago?! That looks awesome!LTCM wrote:If you wanted to try a deeper chimney, look at info on jetting a water well. You can get down 20 ft pretty easy in an few hours. 2 inch pipe is typical, which ends up with around a 3 inch hole. Could use 4 inch pipe as well. You could try using one 10 foot stick and make a couple of chimneys in an afternoon.
I got down 16 ft in my yard pretty easy before hitting granite. It's fun to see the different layers of material get washed up.
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