Learn how improving your soil can lead to a better looking lawn
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chrispitude
- Posts: 12
- Joined: July 25th, 2017, 9:01 am
- Location: Allentown, PA
- Grass Type: northern/tall fescue
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by chrispitude » July 28th, 2017, 7:33 pm
TimmyG wrote: ↑July 28th, 2017, 11:37 am
Are you sure you wouldn't be happier using a typical hose-end sprayer like the
Chapin 6005? That's what I use for BLSC, KH, and Serenade. I have a large lawn and refill maybe 3 or 4 times. I can't imagine lugging around a bucket that could spill and not having a free hand to manage the hose (150 ft). Plus, to maximize coverage, I sweep the sprayer from side to side at a full arm's reach while slowly walking backward. You'd probably have to anchor the siphon hose in the bucket somehow to keep it from pulling/falling out.
I have a
Chapin G362 hose-end sprayer, but it only has a 16oz container.
Hmm. I do like the size of your container, sir.
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TimmyG
- Posts: 2244
- Joined: May 15th, 2012, 6:04 pm
- Location: Dracut, MA
- Grass Type: Northern Mix
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by TimmyG » July 29th, 2017, 12:33 am
I, too, have a Chapin G362, but it doesn't get any use. The 6005 is perfect for BLSC & KH.
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PW405
- Posts: 327
- Joined: June 25th, 2016, 12:37 pm
- Location: OKC (Central OK)
- Grass Type: Primary: TTTF (blend), KBG. Bermuda (hellstrip)
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by PW405 » July 29th, 2017, 10:29 am
I transferred my Kelp Help from one container to another. On the bottom of the old container, it left a thick layer of black goop... Think I need to get the goop into the new container?
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llO0DQLE
- Posts: 1420
- Joined: August 4th, 2013, 3:20 pm
- Location: Edmonton, AB Canada
- Grass Type: KBG and Creeping Red Fescue
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by llO0DQLE » July 29th, 2017, 12:36 pm
TimmyG wrote: ↑July 28th, 2017, 1:39 pm
That's been discussed plenty here, including my own intentions and success. For me, the hose-end sprayer works quite well to combat red thread. If I limited myself to a tank sprayer, it'd never get done.
I know and have read that a pump sprayer was recommended for Serenade as it's a foliar app. I hadn't read about your particular reasons hence I was wondering. I was also wondering about the Chapin sprayer itself if it produced a finer spray to be suitable for foliar apps.
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MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
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by MorpheusPA » July 29th, 2017, 5:16 pm
PW405 wrote: ↑July 29th, 2017, 10:29 am
I transferred my Kelp Help from one container to another. On the bottom of the old container, it left a thick layer of black goop... Think I need to get the goop into the new container?
If you can. If not, add some water, dissolve it, and use it as more KH.
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PW405
- Posts: 327
- Joined: June 25th, 2016, 12:37 pm
- Location: OKC (Central OK)
- Grass Type: Primary: TTTF (blend), KBG. Bermuda (hellstrip)
- Lawn Size: 1000-3000
- Level: Experienced
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by PW405 » July 29th, 2017, 5:40 pm
MorpheusPA wrote: ↑July 29th, 2017, 5:16 pm
If you can. If not, add some water, dissolve it, and use it as more KH.
OK good deal. Instead of molasses, couldn't one add a little sugar to the mixture? Or do you want something more like pure glucose?
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MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
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by MorpheusPA » July 29th, 2017, 8:24 pm
We use the molasses for the other stuff, hence blackstrap. But for pure bacterial growth, you could add sugar if you like.
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chrispitude
- Posts: 12
- Joined: July 25th, 2017, 9:01 am
- Location: Allentown, PA
- Grass Type: northern/tall fescue
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
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by chrispitude » July 29th, 2017, 9:24 pm
I called Chapin. They said the G362 is mechanically their best sprayer. They have a G362D variant that is the same sprayer, but with a 32oz wide-mouth bottle. It turns out
Lowes sells it for $20, so I picked one up.
For 3oz/1000sqft, I can do all 15,000sqft with just one refill.
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PW405
- Posts: 327
- Joined: June 25th, 2016, 12:37 pm
- Location: OKC (Central OK)
- Grass Type: Primary: TTTF (blend), KBG. Bermuda (hellstrip)
- Lawn Size: 1000-3000
- Level: Experienced
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by PW405 » July 30th, 2017, 11:10 am
MorpheusPA wrote: ↑July 29th, 2017, 8:24 pm
We use the molasses for the other stuff, hence blackstrap. But for pure bacterial growth, you could add sugar if you like.
Hey Morph... is there any risk in doing BLSC 1x/week? Or maybe upping the concentration of SLS? Reason I ask is that my soil seems to need a pretty hefty dose. The top inch is quite sandy, but down around 4-6", it turns back to a more heavy clay. When the soil is deprived of water, it tends to "lock up", so to speak. Forms a pretty hard layer that water just rolls off of.
I'd like to get the soil draining as well as possible before fall overseed. I've been applying at the directed rate every other week, but with overseeding only about 6 weeks out, was curious if I could up the ante a bit!
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MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
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by MorpheusPA » July 30th, 2017, 1:51 pm
PW405 wrote: ↑July 30th, 2017, 11:10 am
Hey Morph... is there any risk in doing BLSC 1x/week? Or maybe upping the concentration of SLS? Reason I ask is that my soil seems to need a pretty hefty dose. The top inch is quite sandy, but down around 4-6", it turns back to a more heavy clay. When the soil is deprived of water, it tends to "lock up", so to speak. Forms a pretty hard layer that water just rolls off of.
Go for it and go for it, respectively. While I'd mind the SLS a bit as it can get a little salty and the pH can shift temporarily toward the alkaline, it's not of any great concern. If you use the stuff every time you get 1.5" or more of rain at once (or within a reasonable period), I have no objection. This year, that's not much of a concern.
I'd like to get the soil draining as well as possible before fall overseed. I've been applying at the directed rate every other week, but with overseeding only about 6 weeks out, was curious if I could up the ante a bit!
Certainly. Plus, when you overseed, use the BLSC immediately over the top. It helps the seed absorb water and it's a trick I use when I seed my annual flower flats (although there, I just add half an ounce to the water I use to soak the trays).
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PW405
- Posts: 327
- Joined: June 25th, 2016, 12:37 pm
- Location: OKC (Central OK)
- Grass Type: Primary: TTTF (blend), KBG. Bermuda (hellstrip)
- Lawn Size: 1000-3000
- Level: Experienced
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by PW405 » July 30th, 2017, 7:40 pm
MorpheusPA wrote: ↑July 30th, 2017, 1:51 pm
PW405 wrote: ↑July 30th, 2017, 11:10 am
Hey Morph... is there any risk in doing BLSC 1x/week? Or maybe upping the concentration of SLS? Reason I ask is that my soil seems to need a pretty hefty dose. The top inch is quite sandy, but down around 4-6", it turns back to a more heavy clay. When the soil is deprived of water, it tends to "lock up", so to speak. Forms a pretty hard layer that water just rolls off of.
Go for it and go for it, respectively. While I'd mind the SLS a bit as it can get a little salty and the pH can shift temporarily toward the alkaline, it's not of any great concern. If you use the stuff every time you get 1.5" or more of rain at once (or within a reasonable period), I have no objection. This year, that's not much of a concern.
I'd like to get the soil draining as well as possible before fall overseed. I've been applying at the directed rate every other week, but with overseeding only about 6 weeks out, was curious if I could up the ante a bit!
Certainly. Plus, when you overseed, use the BLSC immediately over the top. It helps the seed absorb water and it's a trick I use when I seed my annual flower flats (although there, I just add half an ounce to the water I use to soak the trays).
OK good deal, only concern is the rain... typically very dry where I'm at in the summer time. Only 2.3" in the last 60 days. Still, watering every 4 days so it would typically only be a day or two before it gets watered in.
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PW405
- Posts: 327
- Joined: June 25th, 2016, 12:37 pm
- Location: OKC (Central OK)
- Grass Type: Primary: TTTF (blend), KBG. Bermuda (hellstrip)
- Lawn Size: 1000-3000
- Level: Experienced
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by PW405 » August 5th, 2017, 1:34 pm
Picked up the Ortho brand hose-end sprayer at Home Depot yesterday... apparently they didn't have the Chapin models. It is OK - water droplets are too big, but I was able to zip through my weekly application of KH & BLSC in about 25% of the time it was taking me with a 1 gallon pump sprayer, maybe less. Not a bad model for $10. I do like how they handle the suction line inside the tank - it is a flexible clear rubber with a weight at the bottom to keep it in place. Ergonomics are good too.
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RichS
- Posts: 56
- Joined: September 21st, 2014, 1:52 am
- Location: Southwestern PA
- Grass Type: TTTF/Rye
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
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by RichS » September 2nd, 2017, 1:10 pm
Is the soil conditioner useful for all types of soil? I didn't see anything mentioned, but after reading about the goal - increased flocculation/penetration/water flow/etc, I thought about my sandy loam soil that seems to have issues retaining nutrients/leaking - should I still be using it? Or is it mostly to soften hard clays?
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RichS
- Posts: 56
- Joined: September 21st, 2014, 1:52 am
- Location: Southwestern PA
- Grass Type: TTTF/Rye
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
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by RichS » September 7th, 2017, 10:50 am
Re-reading this thread, and I'm a bit confused.
PW405 wrote: ↑July 7th, 2017, 6:56 pm
I wound up getting SLS in liquid form. 28% concentrate. Still use 40oz of the liquid concentrate in one gallon of water?
The article currently posted is what I used
Bestlawn Soil Conditioner
80 ounces sodium laureth sulfate (eBay; Various Suppliers)
8 ounces yucca extract (T&J Enterprises)
40 ounces water (from the tap)
So I mixed 80 oz liquid SLES in 1 gallon total - about 2:1 SLES:water. From above, 40oz in 1 gallon of water is just under 1:3 SLES:water, or 1/6 the concentration. (or even 40 oz plus water to make 1 gallon is 1:2, 1/4 the concentration).
Has something changed since the article? Or is "liquid concentrate" something different than the "sodium laureth sulfate" in the recipe?
Per what I read earlier, I'm putting it on a little heavier than recommended. I assumed I was 1.5-2x the formula, but 9-12x is more concerning.
Thanks
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MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
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by MorpheusPA » September 7th, 2017, 8:59 pm
That 80 oz of SLES is about 25% strength, so 20 oz of actual SLES.
SLS is a much, much stronger surfactant than SLES. You can use a thin sprinkle, wet, and scrub SLS to remove oil from your garage floor. SLES is more often used in shampoos for humans and animals (although enough will, of course, also remove the oil from your garage floor after several goes).
All things considered, the SLES is probably just a little bit stronger, but no more than 5 oz or so of SLS will dissolve easily into 1 gallon of cold water regardless of what the math says!
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Marinegrunt
- Posts: 483
- Joined: October 25th, 2016, 10:37 am
- Location: Central IL
- Grass Type: TTTF + 10% KBG
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- Level: Some Experience
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by Marinegrunt » September 7th, 2017, 9:22 pm
RichS wrote: ↑September 2nd, 2017, 1:10 pm
Is the soil conditioner useful for all types of soil? I didn't see anything mentioned, but after reading about the goal - increased flocculation/penetration/water flow/etc, I thought about my sandy loam soil that seems to have issues retaining nutrients/leaking - should I still be using it? Or is it mostly to soften hard clays?
I also have a sandy loam. After seeing my soil test results Andy mentioned using gypsum for the "tightness" associated with sandy loam. I also used the soil conditioner but only once before seeding. I can't say for sure but I would think the soil conditioner will help all soils.
I'd like to know how soon you can use it again after seeding.
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Oldschool
- Posts: 238
- Joined: July 2nd, 2017, 11:28 am
- Location: Windsor, Colorado
- Grass Type: Kentucky Bluegrass
- Lawn Size: 1000-3000
- Level: Some Experience
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by Oldschool » September 8th, 2017, 7:48 am
To the experienced BLSC/KH users:
The Kelp Extract and the Yucca Extract are available in liquid and powder form. Which should I use? Also, are the ingredient amounts the same for liquid or powder (4 oz. kelp, 8 oz. yucca)?
Thank you for the help...
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MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
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by MorpheusPA » September 8th, 2017, 12:06 pm
Powder form is probably much cheaper in terms of what you get. It's 4 oz of kelp powder per gallon, but closer to 1 gram of yucca powder per gallon. That's 1/30th of an ounce, or about 1/5th of a teaspoon (assuming around the same density as flour).
Edited to add: Moderate overapplication won't hurt, so if you accidentally get a third or a quarter of a tsp per gallon, that's not an issue. Even half a teaspoon (7 grams) isn't going to cause problems, but there's no reason to waste it when it's that expensive!
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MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
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by MorpheusPA » September 8th, 2017, 12:15 pm
Cancel that, the math's wrong. 1 tsp powder would be about 3 grams, assuming the density of flour. Again, it's not that critical, but you'd use about 1/3 teaspoon per gallon of BLSC.
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Oldschool
- Posts: 238
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- Location: Windsor, Colorado
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by Oldschool » September 8th, 2017, 12:24 pm
Thanks Morph...crystal clear now
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