BLSC and KH Questions
- HoosierLawnGnome
- Posts: 9591
- Joined: May 22nd, 2013, 5:59 pm
- Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
- Grass Type: Blueberry KBG
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
Most of the time your goal when applying BLSC is to create space between the tiny soil particles.
Applying KH is more about feeding a liquid to the soil that contains food microbes like to eat. This improves the way that microbes processes OM and what not.
And then of course you can see how they would work synergistically.
So it is not a mathematical or numeric result you can test. It's experiential, like how well the soil soaks in water, how well does it process material? Can roots dig down Well? Is the soil looser?
How is my grass doing? The increased microherd ability will hell your turf get the nutrients it needs. Hard to see thst on a test. More experiential.
Applying KH is more about feeding a liquid to the soil that contains food microbes like to eat. This improves the way that microbes processes OM and what not.
And then of course you can see how they would work synergistically.
So it is not a mathematical or numeric result you can test. It's experiential, like how well the soil soaks in water, how well does it process material? Can roots dig down Well? Is the soil looser?
How is my grass doing? The increased microherd ability will hell your turf get the nutrients it needs. Hard to see thst on a test. More experiential.
-
- Posts: 385
- Joined: August 30th, 2016, 2:01 pm
- Location: St. Louis, Mo
- Grass Type: TTTF
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
Things that I look for are no cracking on the surface, absorbing rain well, localized dry/hot spots improving, and the screw driver test.RichS wrote: ↑October 15th, 2017, 10:45 pmCan anyone provide insight into the "Once the soil begins to improve" and "Once the soil is where you want it, ' statements in the original article. I've put down 4oz each per K, 5 times now, 2 weeks apart I'm not really sure how to tell whether the soil is improving, and I'm sure I don't know what I "want" From the soil test this spring, my soil seemed to be in fairly decent shape.
-
- Posts: 410
- Joined: May 20th, 2015, 2:15 pm
- Location: Central VA
- Grass Type: Fescue
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
Hey Morph - related but not question for you:MorpheusPA wrote: ↑October 9th, 2017, 1:05 pmFor the KH, you have options. I mix them in 1 gallons of water each, separately, then use 2-4 oz per thousand square feet of each gallon to apply.
You can also mix both of them together in 2 gallons of water, and then use 4 to 8 oz per thousand square feet to get exactly the same amount of each product down. Same difference.
For the BLSC, mix that in 1 gallon of water, then use 2 to 4 oz per thousand square feet.
Is the below a direct results of conditioning with shampoo? Did I over shampoo?
I used baby shampoo @ 4-5 oz/1K sf in Aug & Sept over a 10 week period; laying it down every other week. 4 times over ~10 week period.
We had basically a mini drought for the entire month of September in the Mid-Atlantic after Harvey & Irma skirted by the South East.
I overseeded on Labor day & kept things moist for about 15 mins per day for 28 days - then cut back to my less but deep watering since then
My soil feels very soft & it feels like the lawn - while green & lush - appears to be 'soggy' longer.
I'm sure that irrigation & rain fall are soaking deeper after the shampooing but I feel like the ground stays wet more after these events esp. in shady areas.
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
There's really no such thing as over-shampooing, unless you really, really over-did it. Five oz/K isn't severe. 20 before it rained in...well, perhaps that was over the top.
So yes, retaining more water is normal, as is very soft soil. That's actually my goal in the gardens, and I sure don't mind it in the grass, either.
As the grass grows roots, which can now penetrate deeper and wider than before, they'll support the soil. It'll still feel soft, but you won't have that "sinking in" feeling when you walk on it.
So yes, retaining more water is normal, as is very soft soil. That's actually my goal in the gardens, and I sure don't mind it in the grass, either.
As the grass grows roots, which can now penetrate deeper and wider than before, they'll support the soil. It'll still feel soft, but you won't have that "sinking in" feeling when you walk on it.
-
- Posts: 239
- Joined: August 19th, 2010, 9:16 am
- Location: Clifton Park - 20mi North of Albany, NY (Zone 5b)
- Grass Type: Bewitched Front, Bewitched-NuGlade-Bedazzled Back
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Experienced
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
I've read all the BLSC and KH posts. Can I please get a confirmation of the amounts before I buy the ingredients?
BLSC:
5oz SLS powder OR 40oz SLES liquid per gallon of water
1oz Yucca extract per gallon of water
KH:
4oz Kelp powder OR 24oz Kelp liquid per gallon of water
8oz Humic acid per gallon of water
4oz molasses per gallon of water (optional)
BLSC:
5oz SLS powder OR 40oz SLES liquid per gallon of water
1oz Yucca extract per gallon of water
KH:
4oz Kelp powder OR 24oz Kelp liquid per gallon of water
8oz Humic acid per gallon of water
4oz molasses per gallon of water (optional)
-
- Posts: 239
- Joined: August 19th, 2010, 9:16 am
- Location: Clifton Park - 20mi North of Albany, NY (Zone 5b)
- Grass Type: Bewitched Front, Bewitched-NuGlade-Bedazzled Back
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Experienced
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
Yes, but from reading the forums it appears that they've changed and the article hasn't been updated. Specifically:
- the KH is 4 and 8oz in one gallon instead of 2 gallons
- the BLSC in the article uses SLES liquid instead of SLS powder and the yucca is less than 8oz
I know it is the "glug" measurement method but I don't want to buy $50 of yucca when I need $10.
- the KH is 4 and 8oz in one gallon instead of 2 gallons
- the BLSC in the article uses SLES liquid instead of SLS powder and the yucca is less than 8oz
I know it is the "glug" measurement method but I don't want to buy $50 of yucca when I need $10.
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
Testing has shown me that the yucca really isn't necessary--or you can use yucca powder. Others disagree, but I can't detect any difference between using it or not, so I got rid of it as unnecessary.
I've also discontinued the humic acid as a combo product and moved it to its own mix (which I've also changed by using a combination of humic and fulvic acids). But for the most part, I don't use that any longer either. The measured impact was too small compared to simply using kelp by itself (where the changes actually are significant and I go through gallons!)
I've made a lot of changes, but haven't been around all that much, and don't have access to write articles any longer.
I've also discontinued the humic acid as a combo product and moved it to its own mix (which I've also changed by using a combination of humic and fulvic acids). But for the most part, I don't use that any longer either. The measured impact was too small compared to simply using kelp by itself (where the changes actually are significant and I go through gallons!)
I've made a lot of changes, but haven't been around all that much, and don't have access to write articles any longer.
-
- Posts: 6837
- Joined: September 14th, 2012, 10:53 pm
- Location: CT (Zone 6B)
- Grass Type: KBG, TTTF, TTPR, and FF (various mixtures)
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Experienced
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
Would you be willing to post them in this thread?MorpheusPA wrote: ↑July 7th, 2018, 12:30 amI've made a lot of changes, but haven't been around all that much, and don't have access to write articles any longer.
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
It's really very easy (which, ultimately, is eternally my goal). You can spray the KH concentrate at a lower minimum dilution if you have to, but there's no reason to bother.
BLSC: 5 oz SLS powder per gallon of water. Use the resulting concentrate at 2 to 4 ounces per thousand square feet at any convenient level of dilution, but a 2% solution maximum.
KH: 4 oz kelp powder per gallon of water. Use the resulting concentrate at 2 to 6 ounces per thousand square feet at any convenient level of dilution, but a 2% solution maximum.
BLSC: 5 oz SLS powder per gallon of water. Use the resulting concentrate at 2 to 4 ounces per thousand square feet at any convenient level of dilution, but a 2% solution maximum.
KH: 4 oz kelp powder per gallon of water. Use the resulting concentrate at 2 to 6 ounces per thousand square feet at any convenient level of dilution, but a 2% solution maximum.
-
- Posts: 239
- Joined: August 19th, 2010, 9:16 am
- Location: Clifton Park - 20mi North of Albany, NY (Zone 5b)
- Grass Type: Bewitched Front, Bewitched-NuGlade-Bedazzled Back
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Experienced
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
Perfect - Thanks Morph!
- llO0DQLE
- Posts: 1420
- Joined: August 4th, 2013, 3:20 pm
- Location: Edmonton, AB Canada
- Grass Type: KBG and Creeping Red Fescue
- Lawn Size: 1000-3000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
Thanks for the update Morph. What were the expected benefits from Yucca and Humic acid that you felt were not that significant so as to discontinue these from the original formula?
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
Yucca's another (extremely expensive) surfactant, akin to soap root, but I can't say it really brought anything to the party I couldn't get just by using a little more of the very cheap SLS product. The minor bacterial food component in there can be satisfied by using a little kelp extract if you want--or just drop in some sugar, corn syrup, or molasses.
HA is theoretically going to increase your EC a bit (it really didn't), and serve as a minor feeding for soil fungi (it might have, but nothing noticeable over the kelp and organic feedings I normally give it).
I find that HA (and fulvic acid) have some minor usage in the gardens, but not that much even there.
HA is theoretically going to increase your EC a bit (it really didn't), and serve as a minor feeding for soil fungi (it might have, but nothing noticeable over the kelp and organic feedings I normally give it).
I find that HA (and fulvic acid) have some minor usage in the gardens, but not that much even there.
- llO0DQLE
- Posts: 1420
- Joined: August 4th, 2013, 3:20 pm
- Location: Edmonton, AB Canada
- Grass Type: KBG and Creeping Red Fescue
- Lawn Size: 1000-3000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
Ok thanks so much.
-
- Posts: 56
- Joined: April 25th, 2018, 7:03 pm
- Location: Austin, TX
- Grass Type: Tiffway 419 Bermuda
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
Morph, can you confirm what this would be for the liquid SLS? Thanks!MorpheusPA wrote: ↑July 7th, 2018, 11:22 am
BLSC: 5 oz SLS powder per gallon of water. Use the resulting concentrate at 2 to 4 ounces per thousand square feet at any convenient level of dilution, but a 2% solution maximum.
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
Historically, I said 80 gallons. What with revising the solution back to about 5% when using the powder, nowadays I'd use about 16 ounces liquid SLS per gallon to stay even.
Then use the resulting mixture at 2 ounces per thousand square feet, diluted at any convenient level. Again, I'd go with a 2% solution maximum.
Then use the resulting mixture at 2 ounces per thousand square feet, diluted at any convenient level. Again, I'd go with a 2% solution maximum.
-
- Posts: 2244
- Joined: May 15th, 2012, 6:04 pm
- Location: Dracut, MA
- Grass Type: Northern Mix
- Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
- Level: Experienced
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
I believe Morpheus meant to say that he historically quoted 80 ounces of liquid SLES in a gallon container topped with water. Even I don't mix 80 gallons at a go.
SLS powder is the way to go.
SLS powder is the way to go.
-
- Posts: 56
- Joined: April 25th, 2018, 7:03 pm
- Location: Austin, TX
- Grass Type: Tiffway 419 Bermuda
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
Ha! Yes 80 Gallons would be a lot. Thank you both!
-
- Posts: 327
- Joined: June 25th, 2016, 12:37 pm
- Location: OKC (Central OK)
- Grass Type: Primary: TTTF (blend), KBG. Bermuda (hellstrip)
- Lawn Size: 1000-3000
- Level: Experienced
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
Reminder when handling SLS powder - if you inhale any of the dust plume, it will burn. I don't think it is toxic or anything, but you will definitely know when you do it. I always try to use a dust mask or respirator when scooping the powder out. Just in case.
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: BLSC and KH Questions
Yep, 80 oz, not gallons.
And yes, SLS powder burns and will cause tons of coughing if you breathe it--it'll strip the mucous membranes and leave you incredibly irritated for hours.
It's not very toxic--you''d have to swallow two or three ounces of the stuff to have a huge problem--but very unpleasant and very irritating.
I do it outside in a very light breeze with me upwind.
And yes, SLS powder burns and will cause tons of coughing if you breathe it--it'll strip the mucous membranes and leave you incredibly irritated for hours.
It's not very toxic--you''d have to swallow two or three ounces of the stuff to have a huge problem--but very unpleasant and very irritating.
I do it outside in a very light breeze with me upwind.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests