BLSC and KH Questions

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MorpheusPA
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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by MorpheusPA » July 28th, 2018, 11:22 pm

I just worked with the new SLS powder from Chemistry Connection / Make Your Own (same difference, and the bag said Chemistry Connection).

It wafted a little bit, but I had no trouble pouring it off into little baggies weighed at 5.3 oz right in the kitchen. I had one minor cough or two, but that was about it.

Either I got a larger grain batch or it's not as easy to send airborne as the Bramble Berry stuff was.

I won't be testing the powder again soon; 2 pounds gives me 6 gallons, which is enough for quite a while!

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by Fullheadofturf1234 » August 21st, 2018, 9:45 pm

Is it imperative that blsc be watered in right away?

Will the SLS be absorbed?
If so, will it add the same benefits to the soil when those blades get cut and decompose?

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by MorpheusPA » August 22nd, 2018, 9:04 am

It'll hang and wait for watering or rainfall. As long as you've applied it at the recommended dilution or more, you'll be fine.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by umbo514 » August 24th, 2018, 9:58 pm

Which one exactly is the best to buy for kelp powder at the Organic Store? Kelp meal vs soluble ... I feel like both would work? But prices are much different per lb.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by andy10917 » August 25th, 2018, 7:40 am

Nope. Kelp Meal is far lower in the concentration of the good stuff than the extract. It's just ground Kelp.


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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by Aviator8 » September 9th, 2018, 2:23 am

I have mixed up a batch of BLSC and KH based on the latest recommendations here. I have a few different hose end sprayers. Can anyone share what rates they use to achieve the recommended 2% max solution. I understand that there are variables such as walking speed etc, but I'd like to just take some example settings people use.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by MorpheusPA » September 9th, 2018, 3:30 pm

Just assume that the solution in the can is 100% saturated (it isn't). A 2% solution would be about 2.5 ounces per gallon on your sprayer's dilution dial.

Anything 2.5 ounces per gallon or less is just fine and will give you a 2% solution or less, regardless of walking speed or water pressure (within normal range).

After that, adjust the setting to match your walking speed and get approximately the right amount down. Plenty of people realize they walked too slowly and just dropped 8 oz per thousand and ask, in a panicked tone of writing, if they just did damage.

Nope, you're cool, that's why the high level of dilution (although at that rate, some irrigation wouldn't be a bad idea). But I'd skip the next few months to let that wash down through the soil...

My normal rate of application is closer to 4-6 oz per thousand because I only do this twice a year.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by Aviator8 » September 9th, 2018, 6:59 pm

MorpheusPA wrote:
September 9th, 2018, 3:30 pm
Just assume that the solution in the can is 100% saturated (it isn't). A 2% solution would be about 2.5 ounces per gallon on your sprayer's dilution dial.

Anything 2.5 ounces per gallon or less is just fine and will give you a 2% solution or less, regardless of walking speed or water pressure (within normal range).

After that, adjust the setting to match your walking speed and get approximately the right amount down. Plenty of people realize they walked too slowly and just dropped 8 oz per thousand and ask, in a panicked tone of writing, if they just did damage.

Nope, you're cool, that's why the high level of dilution (although at that rate, some irrigation wouldn't be a bad idea). But I'd skip the next few months to let that wash down through the soil...

My normal rate of application is closer to 4-6 oz per thousand because I only do this twice a year.
Thank you. Very useful information.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by DocV » May 28th, 2020, 11:43 am

MorpheusPA and Andy10917 - like many have stated before me, thanks for all the hard work on refining the BLKH and BLSC concentrates.

I recently decided to cancel my commercial fertilization service and instead do it myself so I can get better control over the chemicals used so I appreciate the hard work you put in. I have read through almost all of your posts since 2009 regarding BLKH and BLSC including the article that has the recipes.There was a discussion around using powdered yucca extract and the exact amount required, but in searching on this issue I saw 2 conflicting calculations on how much was needed when adjusting from liquid to powdered yucca.

In this post by MorpheusPA (viewtopic.php?t=22872&start=40#p315593), he calculated that 0.035 oz (1 gram) of yucca powder per gallon of BLSC is needed. In this post by PW405 (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20366&p=333760#p333758), he calculated 1 oz (28 grams)/gallon BLSC.

In looking at the T&J Enterprises website (https://tandjenterprises.com/yucca.htm), it appears their liquid yucca has a density of 10 lbs./gal. and is 99.9% pure yucca extract. At that density, of the 10 lbs., 8.34 lbs. is water so 1.66 lbs. of this gallon is yucca extract (I am ignoring the 0.1% sodium benzoate). 1.66 lbs./gal yucca upon conversion is 0.207 oz/fl. oz yucca. In the BLSC recipe one adds 8 fl. oz. of yucca which using the T&J liquid should equal 1.66 oz of powdered yucca (8 fl oz X 0.207 oz/fl. oz) or roughly 1.7 oz (48 grams) of powdered yucca/gallon of BLSC concentrate.

Is this correct or am I off given the large discrepancy between my calc and those of MorpheusPA and PW405?

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by kwoody51 » March 20th, 2022, 7:31 pm

DocV wrote:
May 28th, 2020, 11:43 am
MorpheusPA and Andy10917 - like many have stated before me, thanks for all the hard work on refining the BLKH and BLSC concentrates.

I recently decided to cancel my commercial fertilization service and instead do it myself so I can get better control over the chemicals used so I appreciate the hard work you put in. I have read through almost all of your posts since 2009 regarding BLKH and BLSC including the article that has the recipes.There was a discussion around using powdered yucca extract and the exact amount required, but in searching on this issue I saw 2 conflicting calculations on how much was needed when adjusting from liquid to powdered yucca.

In this post by MorpheusPA (viewtopic.php?t=22872&start=40#p315593), he calculated that 0.035 oz (1 gram) of yucca powder per gallon of BLSC is needed. In this post by PW405 (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20366&p=333760#p333758), he calculated 1 oz (28 grams)/gallon BLSC.

In looking at the T&J Enterprises website (https://tandjenterprises.com/yucca.htm), it appears their liquid yucca has a density of 10 lbs./gal. and is 99.9% pure yucca extract. At that density, of the 10 lbs., 8.34 lbs. is water so 1.66 lbs. of this gallon is yucca extract (I am ignoring the 0.1% sodium benzoate). 1.66 lbs./gal yucca upon conversion is 0.207 oz/fl. oz yucca. In the BLSC recipe one adds 8 fl. oz. of yucca which using the T&J liquid should equal 1.66 oz of powdered yucca (8 fl oz X 0.207 oz/fl. oz) or roughly 1.7 oz (48 grams) of powdered yucca/gallon of BLSC concentrate.

Is this correct or am I off given the large discrepancy between my calc and those of MorpheusPA and PW405?
Any insights into the correct amount to use when using powder?

Also anyone use this powder vs from K4L? It’s quite a bit less $$$

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RAW-Yucca-Extr ... 632-2357-0

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by MorpheusPA » March 21st, 2022, 5:28 pm

If you want to use that in addition to kelp, I'm fine with that. It's yucca extract, which has some additional properties (basically, being a natural soap). I add "synthetic" soap (in the sense that it's chemically reacted in my kitchen).

I've long since given up on the yucca. It really doesn't bring anything measurable to the table that I can't add in other ways.

I'm having a brain-dead evening, but let me look at the math here. Yeah, there's a discrepancy. No, it really doesn't matter all that much. I've usually advised BLSC use in addition to the KH, so that takes care of the yucca.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by kwoody51 » March 21st, 2022, 7:03 pm

MorpheusPA wrote:
March 21st, 2022, 5:28 pm
If you want to use that in addition to kelp, I'm fine with that. It's yucca extract, which has some additional properties (basically, being a natural soap). I add "synthetic" soap (in the sense that it's chemically reacted in my kitchen).

I've long since given up on the yucca. It really doesn't bring anything measurable to the table that I can't add in other ways.

I'm having a brain-dead evening, but let me look at the math here. Yeah, there's a discrepancy. No, it really doesn't matter all that much. I've usually advised BLSC use in addition to the KH, so that takes care of the yucca.
Thanks for confirming!

As for kelp extract any reason to go with one of these vs the other?

Kelp for less -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/172248135112?_ ... %3A2047675

power grown, from ebay - this has 14% P vs Kelp 4 less at 1% P
https://www.ebay.com/itm/223615708022?_ ... BMus2U6_Vf[/url]

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by MorpheusPA » March 22nd, 2022, 8:46 am

They're actually identical, except that Kelp For Less isn't reporting inaccurate numbers. :-) The other one is probably giving you the percentage on the concentrate, not the resulting solution.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by kwoody51 » March 22nd, 2022, 10:04 am

MorpheusPA wrote:
March 22nd, 2022, 8:46 am
They're actually identical, except that Kelp For Less isn't reporting inaccurate numbers. :-) The other one is probably giving you the percentage on the concentrate, not the resulting solution.
Awesome, thanks again for confirming!

Think I now have what I need to get materials ordered. Ironically with shipping 1lb of SL powder is the same cost as Yucca extract. Going to see if the kids need any candle or soap making items to help soften the blow of ~$15+ shipping for 1lb of SLS powder.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by MorpheusPA » March 24th, 2022, 2:53 pm

Tell me about it. I tend to order 5 to 10 pounds at a time--some years at once--and I make both soap and candles, so that helps, too.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by kwoody51 » April 6th, 2022, 5:09 pm

If anyone is looking for some SLS there is some on ebay now for a decent price $25 for 2.5 lbs or $40 for 5lbs w/ free shipping. This is $5-10 less than other online sellers when you factor in shipping. It's in noodle form vs powder which I'm going to assume will mean less likelihood of burning of nose or eyes while handling. Hopefully noodle vs powder doesn't impact solubility.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/203482151661?_ ... %7Ciid%3A1

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by MorpheusPA » April 7th, 2022, 7:31 pm

It does impact solubility, but just make it the day before you need it and that solves the problem.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by kwoody51 » April 12th, 2022, 11:33 pm

Remind me can I use BLSC and KH mixed with Prodiamine?

Feel like I read that KH is ok to mix with Prodiamine but not BLSC due to its ionic nature (might be getting the why wrong).

Getting ready for my 1st go at this and want to mix things up correctly.

Thanks!

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by kwoody51 » April 13th, 2022, 2:43 pm

Finally found the post I was looking for - putting here for others with same question.... viewtopic.php?t=23067#p312598

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by MorpheusPA » April 13th, 2022, 4:06 pm

I would not tank mix (sprayer mix) Prodiamine with anything, personally. You're correct that BLSC would be flat-out, but it'll also bind with the KH a bit due to the exposed charges there. I'd separate application by at least one good rainfall of a quarter inch or more, after which there's no issue at all and no chance of interaction.

Prodiamine, after app, soil binds incredibly strongly. Neither BLSC nor KH do, but will happily wash through and do their thing.

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