BLSC and KH Questions

Learn how improving your soil can lead to a better looking lawn
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MorpheusPA
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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by MorpheusPA » July 15th, 2017, 12:56 pm

Without some special equipment, and without adding this to very hot water, the powder simply doesn't mix all that well. 5 oz reliably dissolves in a gallon of very cold water in reasonable time.

While the solution ends up being a bit trim (5%) compared to the 80 oz liquid per gallon (22%) using basic math, it really doesn't matter much in the long run, and it's not the same chemical (SLS vs. SLES). SLS is stronger, more irritating to skin and mucus membranes, and doesn't require nearly the same amount in any application.

By comparison, I might use a quarter of a teaspoon in a pound of raw soap to vastly increase the bubbly lather but generally don't because I find it too stripping to the skin. I tend to simply increase the amount of sodium laurate that results from the saponification reaction instead--it's much milder.

SLS is also known as sodium dodecyl sulfate (SDS), so you may sometimes see that as well.

Most other liquid soaps or shampoos can be safely applied at 4 oz per thousand in any convenient amount of water (the more the better, up to a normal irrigation cycle). Some concentrates may vary, and never use anything with an anti-bacterial in it.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by chrispitude » July 25th, 2017, 8:20 pm

What a long strange trip it's been...

Was searching on how to roll the bumps out of a clay yard, came upon some crazy discussion about "shampooing your yard." I eventually found my way to the BLSC posts, and here I am!

We did one round of baby wash on the yard, and now I'm looking to go into full production. (Cue Breaking Bad theme song.)

Can I put 1lb of SLS powder and 1oz of yucca extract powder into a 2.5 gallon container of water, then shake 'til mixed? I have full-face respiration gear and skin protection, so powder recipes are fine.

And holy cow, is yucca extract powder really $32 per 4oz?!?!

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by STL » July 26th, 2017, 9:43 am

chrispitude wrote:
July 25th, 2017, 8:20 pm
What a long strange trip it's been...

Was searching on how to roll the bumps out of a clay yard, came upon some crazy discussion about "shampooing your yard." I eventually found my way to the BLSC posts, and here I am!

We did one round of baby wash on the yard, and now I'm looking to go into full production. (Cue Breaking Bad theme song.)

Can I put 1lb of SLS powder and 1oz of yucca extract powder into a 2.5 gallon container of water, then shake 'til mixed? I have full-face respiration gear and skin protection, so powder recipes are fine.

And holy cow, is yucca extract powder really $32 per 4oz?!?!
I suggest a five gallon bucket and a paint mixing drill attachment for mixing. Much more efficient and saves your arms from all the shaking. I haven't had an issue with irritation from the products with this method but do be careful.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by TimmyG » July 26th, 2017, 11:25 am

chrispitude wrote:
July 25th, 2017, 8:20 pm
Can I put 1lb of SLS powder and 1oz of yucca extract powder into a 2.5 gallon container of water, then shake 'til mixed?
You could try, but did you not read Morpheus' post right before yours?
MorpheusPA wrote:
July 15th, 2017, 12:56 pm
Without some special equipment, and without adding this to very hot water, the powder simply doesn't mix all that well. 5 oz reliably dissolves in a gallon of very cold water in reasonable time.
Many of us have learned that trying to mix 8 oz of SLS powder into 1 gallon of water isn't worth the hassle, can be near impossible, and will precipitate out even if you are successful.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by chrispitude » July 26th, 2017, 3:18 pm

TimmyG wrote:
July 26th, 2017, 11:25 am
Many of us have learned that trying to mix 8 oz of SLS powder into 1 gallon of water isn't worth the hassle, can be near impossible, and will precipitate out even if you are successful.
Exactly! So I figure 16oz SLS powder into 2.5 gallons (overfilling just a bit) should be around 6oz per gallon. That's why I asked to see if anyone had done this particular procedure. :)

I sure do like the drill mixer attachment idea though...


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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by greenrebellion » July 26th, 2017, 4:12 pm

I used six ounces of SLS powder into 1 gallon and didn't have a problem with it dissolving and staying dissolved.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by llO0DQLE » July 26th, 2017, 6:14 pm

I can get SLSA powder online from a Canadian supplier. It's supposed to be milder than even SLES. Any suggestions on how much to use?

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by chrispitude » July 26th, 2017, 8:02 pm

greenrebellion wrote:
July 26th, 2017, 4:12 pm
I used six ounces of SLS powder into 1 gallon and didn't have a problem with it dissolving and staying dissolved.
Thank you, greenrebellion! This is exactly what I was hoping to hear.

For the yucca extract powder, it looks like 4oz goes for $22.40 from the Kelp4Less website, and $12.71 from the Kelp4Less seller on Ebay. Big difference.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by TimmyG » July 26th, 2017, 10:07 pm

chrispitude wrote:
July 26th, 2017, 3:18 pm
Exactly! So I figure 16oz SLS powder into 2.5 gallons (overfilling just a bit) should be around 6oz per gallon. That's why I asked to see if anyone had done this particular procedure. :)
Ah! See, there's the hitch. You previously said "into a 2.5 gallon container", not "into 2.5 gallons". I use 2.5-gallon containers for both BLSC and KH and mix by shaking, exactly as you are considering doing. But to mix in a 2.5-gallon container, you don't fill it to 2.5 gallons. That doesn't leave sufficient air space to get good sloshing. You should target filling to 2 gallons, maybe a hair more.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by andy10917 » July 26th, 2017, 10:22 pm

Morph and I worked on these items years ago, and both of us have said hundreds of times that IT DOESN'T MATTER. Use enough water that it works well with a sprayer and doesn't harm any grass/plants/etc. Don't use so much water than you need a tanker truck.

Both Morph and I have said we do this stuff by the Glugs system, but every year we go through severe overthinking and near-religious wars over this.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by MorpheusPA » July 27th, 2017, 12:16 am

llO0DQLE wrote:
July 26th, 2017, 6:14 pm
I can get SLSA powder online from a Canadian supplier. It's supposed to be milder than even SLES. Any suggestions on how much to use?
SLSA would be milder! However it does tend to be triple the price per pound of SLS and SLES.

Try to use 8 oz per gallon...but if you have trouble getting that to dissolve, drop back to 5 oz. If you can work with 8 oz per gallon, use 2-4 oz of that concentrate per thousand square feet per application.

If you can only manage the 5 oz per gallon, apply at 3-6 oz per thousand square feet.

As always, errors aren't important within any reasonable range--and most unreasonable ranges, for that matter. Like SLS or SLES, SLSA will be very forgiving in terms of soil issues.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by MorpheusPA » July 27th, 2017, 12:20 am

andy10917 wrote:
July 26th, 2017, 10:22 pm
Both Morph and I have said we do this stuff by the Glugs system, but every year we go through severe overthinking and near-religious wars over this.
This. Honestly, I just give general guides.

None of these are herbicides or other -cides, and overapplication within any reasonable range with BLSC or KH simply doesn't matter. I use 4 oz per thousand per week of kelp in the gardens, or 16 oz per month. They flourish.

That's near the normal limit (and overkill on lawns as they aren't so demanding), but even doubling that wouldn't do any actual damage. It's just a complete waste and might reduce blooming a little bit due to excessive growth hormones.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by llO0DQLE » July 27th, 2017, 1:03 am

Thanks so much for your patience answering all these questions Morph! And thanks for the recommendations above.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by chrispitude » July 27th, 2017, 5:58 pm

I have about 15k sqft of wonderfully sterile Lehigh Valley clay to treat. (Shout out to MorpheusPA!) I wonder how well one of those hose-based siphons would work?

https://www.amazon.com/Grow-More-Siphon ... phon+mixer

There's plastic ones and brass ones and yellow ones and shiny ones... I sure like the idea of putting the siphon in a bucket of concentrate, then going to town on the yard!

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by MorpheusPA » July 27th, 2017, 11:32 pm

chrispitude wrote:
July 27th, 2017, 5:58 pm
I have about 15k sqft of wonderfully sterile Lehigh Valley clay to treat. (Shout out to MorpheusPA!) I wonder how well one of those hose-based siphons would work?

https://www.amazon.com/Grow-More-Siphon ... phon+mixer

There's plastic ones and brass ones and yellow ones and shiny ones... I sure like the idea of putting the siphon in a bucket of concentrate, then going to town on the yard!
Shh. We don't have clay. We usually have silt, or silt/sand that's just rock solid and highly acidic from decades of strong acid rain from Bethlehem Steel and completely deflocculated.

I see no reason you couldn't use that mixer. Plenty use the Hozon one. One to sixteen dilution would be fine for kelp or soil conditioner; just drop the amount in the bucket, fill the rest with water, and then dilute that diluted stuff 16:1 using whatever hose-end you like. You'll end up with, probably, around a 100:1 dilution, all things considered. That's great.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by chrispitude » July 28th, 2017, 9:55 am

MorpheusPA wrote:
July 27th, 2017, 11:32 pm
Shh. We don't have clay. We usually have silt, or silt/sand that's just rock solid and highly acidic from decades of strong acid rain from Bethlehem Steel and completely deflocculated.
No wonder my bowls and vases aren't turning out right...

I ordered 3lbs SLS powder from brambleberry and 1lb of yucca extract powder from Ebay seller "mojavegoldyucca" (twice the price of 4oz, but four times more, couldn't say no). Now I just need to find a 5 gallon storage container, and it looks like I have myself yet another hobby...

I've got an Agri-Fab SmartLINK setup (http://www.agri-fab.com/Products/Groome ... tform.aspx) with all four attachments (plug aerator, spike aerator, roller, and dethatcher). For the money, it has been incredibly useful in turning my yard from a weedy builder yard to something half decent. I'm hoping to alternate spike aeration and BLSC application to help speed absorption.

I also have a Newer Spreader 225 compost/manure spreader, but I've put it up for sale on craigslist now that I've discovered the world of liquid soil amendments... (MorpheusPA or anyone else nearby, feel free to borrow it before it gets sold.)

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by TimmyG » July 28th, 2017, 11:37 am

chrispitude wrote:
July 27th, 2017, 5:58 pm
I wonder how well one of those hose-based siphons would work? I sure like the idea of putting the siphon in a bucket of concentrate, then going to town on the yard!
Are you sure you wouldn't be happier using a typical hose-end sprayer like the Chapin 6005? That's what I use for BLSC, KH, and Serenade. I have a large lawn and refill maybe 3 or 4 times. I can't imagine lugging around a bucket that could spill and not having a free hand to manage the hose (150 ft). Plus, to maximize coverage, I sweep the sprayer from side to side at a full arm's reach while slowly walking backward. You'd probably have to anchor the siphon hose in the bucket somehow to keep it from pulling/falling out.
chrispitude wrote:
July 28th, 2017, 9:55 am
I ordered...1lb of yucca extract powder from Ebay seller "mojavegoldyucca" (twice the price of 4oz, but four times more, couldn't say no).
As did I on Wednesday after following up on your post above about Kelp4less' prices.
chrispitude wrote:
July 28th, 2017, 9:55 am
I also have a Newer Spreader 225 compost/manure spreader, but I've put it up for sale on craigslist
Been there, done that!
Re: Increasing organic content

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by llO0DQLE » July 28th, 2017, 12:27 pm

TimmyG, I thought hose end sprayers were not ideal for Serenade as they tend to be more of a soil drench and you want a foliar app with Serenade? Or does your Chapin produce a pretty fine spray?

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by TimmyG » July 28th, 2017, 1:39 pm

That's been discussed plenty here, including my own intentions and success. For me, the hose-end sprayer works quite well to combat red thread. If I limited myself to a tank sprayer, it'd never get done.
Last edited by TimmyG on July 28th, 2017, 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MorpheusPA
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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by MorpheusPA » July 28th, 2017, 1:40 pm

I use a hose end for BLSC and KH, and a backpack sprayer for anything that requires a foliar app or fine spray.

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