BLSC and KH Questions

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kg70041
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BLSC and KH Questions

Post by kg70041 » June 29th, 2017, 1:03 pm

After doing some searching in both the Soil Management and Warm-Season forums, I'm trying to get an idea of where users of the BLSC and KH are sourcing their ingredients from now. Are there any specific websites that anyone has used to source all or most of the products at one time? Trying to gauge if anyone has had good results with ingredients sourced from specific sites.

Additionally, I know Morpheus has mentioned changing his recipes up a little bit recently (i.e. removing yucca). Are there any formulas that folks are using with good results? I'll be applying with a Chapin hose-end sprayer.

I'm attempting to loosen up a few problem areas in the backyard and then possibly move to treating the entire lawn regularly.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by TimmyG » June 29th, 2017, 2:55 pm

BLSC: SLS powder from Bramble Berry.
KH: Kelp and Humic Acid water soluble powders from kelp4less.com (or ebay store). Molasses from any number of sources including kelp4less.com.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by PW405 » June 30th, 2017, 12:33 am

Just to make sure I understand the guide, one would end up creating a fairly large amount of the mixture, right?

If you make the soil conditioner as directed, you would end up with 128 oz's, and you only apply 2 oz for every 1,000 sq ft of lawn? Or enough for 64,000 sq ft?

The Kelp Help yields enough for 134,000 sq ft? I understand one can reduce the ratios as needed, but just want to make sure I know how much of the materials to get. If it has a long shelf life, might as well mix up a large batch I suppose!

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by kg70041 » June 30th, 2017, 8:16 am

Thanks TimmyG!

Are you using an updated recipe for both of the mixes? I assume just SLS powder and water for the BLSC, and Kelp-HA-Water-Molasses (dash-of) for the KH.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by TimmyG » June 30th, 2017, 10:33 am

The Kelp Help "recipe" is pretty much unchanged from the original so many years ago. Should be as written in the article. However, molasses recommendations are all over the place. I might put as much as 4oz in the 40oz hose-end sprayer along with the KH concentrate. Note: hold off on adding molasses to the mix until you're ready to use it. KH has a years-long shelf life without the molasses (sugar). FYI, a manual nut grinder works great to crush the hard, rocky chunks of humic acid "powder" (assuming you experience the same trouble). Also, strain out any undissolved particles/chunks from the concentrate. You don't want those plugging your sprayer tube.

BLSC for me is just SLS powder and water, same as for Morpheus. Morpheus originally suggested adding as much as 8oz of the powder to each gallon of water, which I used to do, but it can be challenging to dissolve that high of a concentration, and it tends to precipitate out. Morpheus has posted recently that he now mixes in roughly 5oz. It's just so much easier not to fight it. Again, years-long shelf life.

I mix up close to 5 gallons each in 2-1/2 gallon jugs.


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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by MorpheusPA » June 30th, 2017, 11:32 am

Really, the BLSC has a shelf life that's indeterminate--liquid SLS doesn't go bad at any noticeable rate, nor does the powder form. Use in soap making is different, but few things go over 1 year in terms of expiration date there.

I confess to keeping the kelp a lot longer than a year. It smells bad, but still seems to work just fine and doesn't do any damage. Still, I think I'd set the cutoff at 1 year on that just to be entirely safe.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by TimmyG » June 30th, 2017, 1:01 pm

My batches of both are beyond 4 years old. Had kids, moved...frequent apps of BLSC & KH have taken a back seat. I don't hesitate to use either any different than if they were freshly made.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by kg70041 » July 3rd, 2017, 1:49 pm

Good looking out fellas. Thanks for the info.

I've got all my goods ordered and they're slowly trickling in. Excited to get moving.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by PW405 » July 7th, 2017, 6:56 pm

I wound up getting SLS in liquid form. 28% concentrate. Still use 40oz of the liquid concentrate in one gallon of water?

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by MorpheusPA » July 8th, 2017, 10:39 am

PW405--yep!

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by PW405 » July 9th, 2017, 5:09 pm

MorpheusPA wrote:
July 8th, 2017, 10:39 am
PW405--yep!
Thanks Morpheus. I've been reading the original thread where KH and BLSC were born! Hard to believe it was 8 years ago!

I got confused ordering ingredients, I wound up with powdered yucca and liquid kelp. I weighed out 8 oz of powdered yucca for my BLSC, was this too much?

For my liquid kelp, I used 4 fl oz. The liquid kelp is from Kelp 4 Less, but it doesn't provide the concentration % on the label.

Think this is ok?

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by kg70041 » July 11th, 2017, 8:43 am

TimmyG wrote:
June 30th, 2017, 10:33 am

BLSC for me is just SLS powder and water, same as for Morpheus. Morpheus originally suggested adding as much as 8oz of the powder to each gallon of water, which I used to do, but it can be challenging to dissolve that high of a concentration, and it tends to precipitate out. Morpheus has posted recently that he now mixes in roughly 5oz. It's just so much easier not to fight it. Again, years-long shelf life.
The recipe per the article shows 80oz of SLS (assume powder). So 5lbs of SLS powder mixed in less than half a gallon of water? Would make much more sense if it was 8oz per gallon. Am I reading this right?

Finally got the SLS powder yesterday and am planning on making my mixes this afternoon.

Follow-up.. if you guys are using a hose-end sprayer, are you watering in post-application? Or leaving it alone?

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by TimmyG » July 11th, 2017, 10:05 am

No, the original recipe as shared in the article is for 80 oz of liquid SLES (sodium laureth sulfate). The liquid is more diluted, 28% I believe.

I don't water in after applying with a hose-end sprayer.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by PW405 » July 11th, 2017, 1:02 pm

Also, was curious if it is OK to mix Serenade along with BLSC and KH? I figure if I'm going to be spraying frequently for the rest of summer, I might as well spray as many things at once as possible.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by TimmyG » July 11th, 2017, 1:42 pm


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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by MorpheusPA » July 11th, 2017, 2:39 pm

PW405 wrote:
July 9th, 2017, 5:09 pm
Thanks Morpheus. I've been reading the original thread where KH and BLSC were born! Hard to believe it was 8 years ago!

I got confused ordering ingredients, I wound up with powdered yucca and liquid kelp. I weighed out 8 oz of powdered yucca for my BLSC, was this too much?

For my liquid kelp, I used 4 fl oz. The liquid kelp is from Kelp 4 Less, but it doesn't provide the concentration % on the label.

Think this is ok?
Yes, 8 oz of powdered yucca was way too much. However, the negative consequences of that are...nothing. Next time, 1 oz of yucca per gallon is more than sufficient, assuming it dissolves well. For now, just use the existing solution normally and realize it cost a lot more than it should have, but it's fine.

I think the liquid kelp is very concentrated...(research, research) yes. For foliar spray, "Mix 1/4 oz. with one (1) gallon of water. Spray as a fine mist until it drips off the plant surfaces."

For the powder, it's 1/4 tsp. Therefore, 1/4 tsp of powder = 1/4 oz of liquid in terms of strength. Therefore, 1/24th oz powder = 1/4 oz liquid, or 1 oz powder = 6 oz liquid.

So 24 oz of liquid per gallon = 4 oz powder per gallon. The liquid is concentrated by a factor of 5.3. The powder is way cheaper...but this will do, and will make 5.3 gallons of concentrate for application to lawn and gardens.

Sidenote: My flower gardens are incredible with a dash (4 oz per thousand) of kelp once a week. This is late last August and this year's gardens look like they're going to outdo this.

Image

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by kg70041 » July 11th, 2017, 2:48 pm

That garden made my wife shriek with excitement! Well done!

To piggyback on TimmyGs response...is it best with the BLSC and KH to apply and hopefully have a few days without rain or irrigation? Not sure of what my timing would be like getting it down if it needs a dry day or two.

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by PW405 » July 11th, 2017, 8:18 pm

MorpheusPA wrote:
July 11th, 2017, 2:39 pm
Yes, 8 oz of powdered yucca was way too much. However, the negative consequences of that are...nothing. Next time, 1 oz of yucca per gallon is more than sufficient, assuming it dissolves well. For now, just use the existing solution normally and realize it cost a lot more than it should have, but it's fine.
...Sidenote: My flower gardens are incredible with a dash (4 oz per thousand) of kelp once a week. This is late last August and this year's gardens look like they're going to outdo this.
Looking good! I was checking out some of your flower pictures from your website... I've got a lot to learn! Seems like I'm in good hands around here though.

Ok, I figured the ratio of yucca was a bit much. Surprisingly, it mixed fine.

I only made a 1/4 batch due to purchasing 1 gallon containers and not really thinking about it when I was at the store purchasing said containers.

I bet I can dilute the existing mixture with a bit more SLS and water to get the Yucca concentration down a little bit.
MorpheusPA wrote:
July 11th, 2017, 2:39 pm
I think the liquid kelp is very concentrated...(research, research) yes. For foliar spray, "Mix 1/4 oz. with one (1) gallon of water. Spray as a fine mist until it drips off the plant surfaces."

...The liquid is concentrated by a factor of 5.3 ...
Haha... I have a gallon of liquid kelp concentrate. 4,000 sq ft of sprayable dirt. Next purchase of kelp? 2023. :no:

I would be glad to re-write the posted article for KH & BLSC to help out others not make the same mistake.

Thanks for all the tips Morpheus!

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by Fronta1 » July 15th, 2017, 11:33 am

TimmyG wrote:
June 30th, 2017, 10:33 am
Morpheus originally suggested adding as much as 8oz of the powder to each gallon of water, which I used to do, but it can be challenging to dissolve that high of a concentration, and it tends to precipitate out. Morpheus has posted recently that he now mixes in roughly 5oz. It's just so much easier not to fight it. Again, years-long shelf life.

.
I'm confused because the original recipe says 80oz, not 8oz, so I just want to be clear are we going from 80 to 50 or 80 to 5? Thanks

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Re: BLSC and KH Questions

Post by TimmyG » July 15th, 2017, 11:50 am

Fronta1 wrote:
July 15th, 2017, 11:33 am
I'm confused because the original recipe says 80oz, not 8oz, so I just want to be clear are we going from 80 to 50 or 80 to 5? Thanks
Just six posts before yours:
TimmyG wrote:
July 11th, 2017, 10:05 am
No, the original recipe as shared in the article is for 80 oz of liquid SLES (sodium laureth sulfate). The liquid is more diluted [than the SLS powder], 28% I believe.

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