PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Learn how improving your soil can lead to a better looking lawn
PW405
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PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by PW405 » July 19th, 2017, 8:11 pm

Background:
Front Yard - 2,400 sq ft. Grass - Bermuda in sun section, Fescue in shade section. I overseed bermuda with rye in the winter. Generally mow 1x week. Irrigation currently every other even day. Seem to have a little disease activity, but unsure exactly what. See here for macro: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=22765&start=40

Back Yard - 1,000 sq ft. Mostly fescue, some bermuda, but too much shade for bermuda to thrive. Trees and bushes in every last square inch of exposed soil. (Previous owners must have enjoyed the act of planting anything!) Same irrigation cycle, although lower duration due to shade and runoff.

This is my 2nd full season in this house. Trying to restore lawn to it's (assumed) former glory. Previous owners didn't touch it for 5 years. Has been a residential lawn for ~60 years.

Goals - to have lawn that thrives (dark green color, medium growth rates) in all conditions. No easy task for OK's insane weather.


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PW405
Posts: 327
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Grass Type: Primary: TTTF (blend), KBG. Bermuda (hellstrip)
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Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by PW405 » July 27th, 2017, 5:13 pm

Any thoughts on this one?

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andy10917
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Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by andy10917 » July 29th, 2017, 9:03 am

Any thoughts on this one?
My thoughts are that you were 6th in line, and are now 2nd in line. Check the queue thread when you want to see where you are in line.

PW405
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Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by PW405 » July 29th, 2017, 10:39 am

andy10917 wrote:
July 29th, 2017, 9:03 am
Any thoughts on this one?
My thoughts are that you were 6th in line, and are now 2nd in line. Check the queue thread when you want to see where you are in line.
I suppose I should have clarified... I was curious if there were any other opinions outside of the official ST6 interpretation, as I often see other members provide their thoughts on a soil test.

Thanks for providing this service to the forum members! (I'm looking forward to the ST6 opinion the most!)

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andy10917
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Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by andy10917 » September 4th, 2017, 2:05 pm

Something is very wrong with your test results. They are missing the Magnesium numbers in the cations. I've never seen one like that -- did you do editing on the results page? If not, contact Logan and ask them to resend the results page.


PW405
Posts: 327
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Grass Type: Primary: TTTF (blend), KBG. Bermuda (hellstrip)
Lawn Size: 1000-3000
Level: Experienced

Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by PW405 » September 4th, 2017, 4:54 pm

andy10917 wrote:
September 4th, 2017, 2:05 pm
Something is very wrong with your test results. They are missing the Magnesium numbers in the cations. I've never seen one like that -- did you do editing on the results page? If not, contact Logan and ask them to resend the results page.
??? Strange. How I managed that, I'll never know. Thanks again for providing this service during a time when you are very busy with non-yard life! Here's the complete test with cations not missing:

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PW405
Posts: 327
Joined: June 25th, 2016, 12:37 pm
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Grass Type: Primary: TTTF (blend), KBG. Bermuda (hellstrip)
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Level: Experienced

Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by PW405 » September 4th, 2017, 4:57 pm

andy10917 wrote:
September 4th, 2017, 2:05 pm
Something is very wrong with your test results. They are missing the Magnesium numbers in the cations. I've never seen one like that -- did you do editing on the results page? If not, contact Logan and ask them to resend the results page.
Sorry if re-post, I think a browser extension may be causing conflict with the message board engine:

Image

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andy10917
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Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by andy10917 » September 23rd, 2017, 8:43 am

Not that bad a soil - basically needs more Calcium and OM work, but has the bones of a good soil...

This is a medium loam, and it exhibits poor (Back) to mediocre (Front) OM numbers. Do whatever you can to supplement the lawn soil with free OM sources, but use paid sources if you need to. OM supplementation is a 5-10 year constant effort, and don't get the idea that a bag of Milorganite or peat moss is going to make a difference - we are talking about the need for many thousands of lbs to move the needle.

In the cations, the Calcium and Potassium are low, and that is showing up as a moderately low pH number. Apply good calcitic lime at 10 lbs/K every 90 days of the growing season. Locate (not easy) Sulfate of Potash (SOP) and apply off-cycle to the Lime every month until October next season, at 2 lbs/K.

Your Iron numbers are good.

In the micronutrients, the Boron, Copper and Manganese are off. Do you want to address them with the other items at this time?

PW405
Posts: 327
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Grass Type: Primary: TTTF (blend), KBG. Bermuda (hellstrip)
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Level: Experienced

Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by PW405 » September 24th, 2017, 5:47 pm

andy10917 wrote:
September 23rd, 2017, 8:43 am
Not that bad a soil - basically needs more Calcium and OM work, but has the bones of a good soil...

This is a medium loam, and it exhibits poor (Back) to mediocre (Front) OM numbers. Do whatever you can to supplement the lawn soil with free OM sources, but use paid sources if you need to. OM supplementation is a 5-10 year constant effort, and don't get the idea that a bag of Milorganite or peat moss is going to make a difference - we are talking about the need for many thousands of lbs to move the needle.

In the cations, the Calcium and Potassium are low, and that is showing up as a moderately low pH number. Apply good calcitic lime at 10 lbs/K every 90 days of the growing season. Locate (not easy) Sulfate of Potash (SOP) and apply off-cycle to the Lime every month until October next season, at 2 lbs/K.

Your Iron numbers are good.

In the micronutrients, the Boron, Copper and Manganese are off. Do you want to address them with the other items at this time?
Woohoo! Thanks Andy. Yes, I'll go ahead and see what you suggest for the Boron, Copper, and Manganese. Still need to find a source of SOP, but I've got my eye on a few local stores.

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andy10917
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Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by andy10917 » September 24th, 2017, 5:53 pm

In the micro’s, it’s Boron, Copper and Manganese. Get Twenty Mule Team Laundry Soap (grocery), Copper Sulfate (Amazon/EBay), and Manganese Sulfate (Amazon/Ebay) and apply each at three tablespoons/K every 60 days. Read the Micronutrient Application Guide for application specifics.

PW405
Posts: 327
Joined: June 25th, 2016, 12:37 pm
Location: OKC (Central OK)
Grass Type: Primary: TTTF (blend), KBG. Bermuda (hellstrip)
Lawn Size: 1000-3000
Level: Experienced

Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by PW405 » September 26th, 2017, 2:06 am

andy10917 wrote:
September 24th, 2017, 5:53 pm
In the micro’s, it’s Boron, Copper and Manganese. Get Twenty Mule Team Laundry Soap (grocery), Copper Sulfate (Amazon/EBay), and Manganese Sulfate (Amazon/Ebay) and apply each at three tablespoons/K every 60 days. Read the Micronutrient Application Guide for application specifics.
Thanks Andy - is it safe/possible to dissolve these in water and spray instead of combine with milorganite/granular vehicle? I'm a little more accurate with the sprayer than the spreader.

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ken-n-nancy
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Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 26th, 2017, 7:58 am

PW405 wrote:
September 26th, 2017, 2:06 am
Thanks Andy - is it safe/possible to dissolve these in water and spray instead of combine with milorganite/granular vehicle? I'm a little more accurate with the sprayer than the spreader.
Please don't take this reply as a "sassy" one. This is an attempt to "teach to fish, and you feed for a lifetime..."

Google to the rescue: site:aroundtheyard.com spraying micronutrients. For this type of question, I like using google to search on the website by specifying the "site:aroundtheyard.com" qualifier in the google search window.

Looking at the results from the search, the first link will take you to this thread, which contains a post from Andy answering almost this exact question:
andy10917 wrote:
October 5th, 2014, 12:41 pm
I have found that many of the ingredients I recommend clog sprayers, and the results aren't even. My attitude is "I test everything I recommend" and if you go off and do your own thing, don't bother asking me how to correct a screw-up, or ask me how to mix it. I'm not interested, and ignore those threads and PM's.
The second link will take you to another thread which contains a post from MorpheusPA:
MorpheusPA wrote:
June 14th, 2012, 7:07 pm
I did that, but irrigated INSTANTLY behind myself. I didn't want to find out what boron does when foliar-absorbed, and I still have no plans of ever finding that out.

I wouldn't mix it with soil conditioner because of the sheeting of the plants, which will increase absorption.

Actually, I'm not sure I'd recommend it at all. When I did it, I used a hose-end and diluted pretty much and still irrigated after myself...
If you're looking for a more recent perspective from Andy or Morpheus, you'll get better results by telling them you searched and found that a few years ago they had the above advice and you're wondering if they still have the same perspectives now...

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andy10917
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Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by andy10917 » September 26th, 2017, 9:05 am

Thanks Andy - is it safe/possible to dissolve these in water and spray instead of combine with milorganite/granular vehicle? I'm a little more accurate with the sprayer than the spreader.
My attitude remains the same.

Notice what Morph said -- he INSTANTLY irrigated behind himself. See the capital letters. He knows that without immediate additional water, what you have done is make a foliar feeding. Foliar feeding can temporarily act as an application with a strength of 10X - 12X spreader-applied nutrients. Immediate dilution would be critical, and that doesn't mean "after a beer", "if it doesn't rain tonight" or "the irrigation system will get it tonight".

When I build regimens and document them on BL/ATY, I try to choose methods that are pretty tolerant of newbie and foolish mistakes. Does that mean that other methods won't work? No. Do you have the level of experience that Morph had, to know WHY it was necessary to immediately irrigate? If so, you don't need my advice or regimens. If not, stick to the advice of folks with lots of experience, and read the reasoning they provide until you're experienced enough to create your own.

PS: Also avoid "it worked for me" advice from 10-posting wonders - keep in mind that even Russian Roulette plays report "it had no ill effects" 5 out of every 6 rounds...

PW405
Posts: 327
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Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by PW405 » September 26th, 2017, 5:31 pm

Makes sense, I always forget to search a specific site through Google. I had issues with no responses last night when trying to use the built in search.

So my takeaway from this is that spraying the micronutrients on your lawn gives you 12x (or more) bang for your buck, and Andy will fly out and fix everything if you mess up. Got it!

KIDDING.

Thanks for the advice, I suppose I'll stick with the milorganite method. Concern was with getting a uniform mix. Now if I can just track down that SOP...

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andy10917
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Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by andy10917 » September 26th, 2017, 5:34 pm

Yeah, that's it. You stand in the middle of your lawn holding my Manhattan, and I'll be there. Just keep waiting...

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MorpheusPA
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Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by MorpheusPA » September 26th, 2017, 9:08 pm

ken-n-nancy wrote:
September 26th, 2017, 7:58 am
Please don't take this reply as a "sassy" one. This is an attempt to "teach to fish, and you feed for a lifetime..."
I prefer, "Light a man a fire and he'll be warm for a night. Light a man ON fire and he's warm for the rest of his life."

I'm kind of dark.
If you're looking for a more recent perspective from Andy or Morpheus, you'll get better results by telling them you searched and found that a few years ago they had the above advice and you're wondering if they still have the same perspectives now...
I stand by my previous statement, but do have a way around the clogginess. Mostly. I always mix iron sulfate externally and add it to the sprayer after the crud settles. It's not perfect--I attach a safety pin to my shirt when spraying so I can clear the nozzle quickly--but it works better.

PW405
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Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by PW405 » October 12th, 2017, 7:38 pm

I applied my first "Milo+Micro's" last weekend. Planning to apply SOP and a light dose of Urea this weekend. Any concerns with applying both at once on relatively young grass? Dropped fescue seed (mostly an overseed) on 9/18.

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andy10917
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Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by andy10917 » October 12th, 2017, 10:41 pm

The question about the SOP and micros is a non-issue. Urea should not be applied until Sprout and Pout ends.

PW405
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Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by PW405 » October 15th, 2017, 11:20 pm

andy10917 wrote:
September 23rd, 2017, 8:43 am
Apply good calcitic lime at 10 lbs/K every 90 days of the growing season. Locate (not easy) Sulfate of Potash (SOP) and apply off-cycle to the Lime every month until October next season, at 2 lbs/K.
Mr. 10917 - is two weeks long enough to be considered off-cycle for the SOP and lime? I dropped SOP on 10-14, so planning the lime on 11/1(ish).

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andy10917
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Re: PW405's Soil Tests - Summer'17

Post by andy10917 » October 16th, 2017, 6:57 pm

The cycle timing is for Urea and Lime, not SOP and Lime. And two weeks is enough if the Lime is a good Lime.

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