Lime. How much and what kind?? Non Logan test attached.

[bigterp]

I posted this in the Lawn Care 101 forum, but was told I might get a better response here. Just recently got interested in improving my lawn. I learned a lot from my first post on this site, and just this site in general. So THANKS for that. I'm not sure what grass my lawn is made of, but it looks to be a mix of various types of fescue with some bluegrass mixed in. I've lived in the home for 6 years with zero lawn maintenance other than mowing and to my knowledge nothing else was done prior since the home was built in 1999.

I'm now to the point where I'm ready to apply lime and to prepare for my first fall nitrogen regimen. I did not spring for a Logan's Lab soil test since my local extension office (West Virginia University) does them for free. But, based on that soil test they recommend 41.4#/1K sq ft of Aglime. My soil pH is 6.2. Seems like an awful lot of lime, but I'm no expert obviously. I've since talked to my local extension agent and she said the recommended lime amount is to help get my soil pH up to around 6.6. My soil test reports nutrients in lbs/acre. P205 came in at 107#/acre (very high), K20 was 367#/acre (very high), Ca was 2,937#/acre (high) and Mg was 230#/acre (medium). Based on the aforementioned numbers, my Ca to Mg ratio is about 12:1. I just finished reading Andy's article about lime here http://aroundtheyard.com/index.php?opti ... Itemid=117 He recommended if your ratio is above 10:1 to use dolomitic lime instaed of calcitic IF your calcium numbers are not excessive. Not sure if my calcium numbers are considered excessive or not? But the same soil test also reports in MEQ/100. Not even sure what that means, but it came in at 5% K, 70% Ca, 10% Mg and 18% H all in total saturation. Using those number my ratio is right at 7:1, which is recommended based on Andy's article. This has me even more confused.

With the above information, would you guys suggest I go with dolomitic or calcitic? Just want to make sure I don't go with the wrong type of lime and end up overshooting something like magnesium and making things worse then what I started off with. Also, should I be planning on applying the 40#/1K that my test recommends?

I attached my soil test results FWIW. I know ST6 only does Logan Labs soil test, but if anyone else is interested and willing to help feel free to take a look at mine. Thanks!!!

[Jackpine]

Don't know why they are even recommending lime with that cation ratio.. A Ca to mg ratio of 7 to 1 is what is strived for with the resultant ph of 6.2 being as good as it gets.

[MorpheusPA]

+1 Jackpine. 70% Calcium, 10% Magnesium is just about perfect (textbook, it might be a hair low on the Mg, but you'll never notice and it doesn't matter).

A pH of 6.2 is wonderful with those balances, and approximately what I have myself. Grass will flourish in it.

Phosphorus and potassium look great, assuming the test is accurate.

[bigterp]

Thanks!! Appreciate the responses.

I was just confused regarding the Ca to Mg ratios. When you use the #'s per acre the ratio is about 12:1. When you use the %saturation it is 7:1. So wasn't sure which one of those ratios I should be referencing when deciding on whether to add dolomitic lime, or for that matter, any lime at all based on my pH of 6.2.

Another question is in regards to fall nitrogen. Based on another one of Andy's post, the general rule for fall nitrogen is 1 lb/K in 2 applications (early fall and late fall/winterizer). viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15109&hilit=nitroge ... 139ffe200b My report suggested 3# of N per acre. Should I be going with Andy's plan instead? 3 lbs. of nitrogen per acre would equate to about 6.5 lbs of Urea per acre. Seems pointless, right? I plan to apply coated Urea at the ratio of 2 lb/K 6-8 weeks before my first average frost. Then apply regular Urea as a winterizer in the same ratio (2 lb/K) in late fall.

After the above I don't see the need for much else based on my soil tests results and your guys' responses. I do have some thin areas I plan to seed this fall and weeds that I plan to address in the spring in the form of a pre-emergent. I applied my first dose of BLSC and KH earlier this week and plan to do another before fall. Any problems you guys see with my plan of attack?

[Galuvian]

To address your original question, the recommendation for 40+ LBS of lime per 1k sq ft is the total annual recommendation. You would typically divide that into 3 and do it spring/summer/fall.

Those recommendations from WVU just seem weird.

[TimmyG]

While I don't disagree that the soil test recommendations are for total annual application, the recommendation for (ag)lime no doubt refers to application of generic dolomitic pelletized lime that sells for around $4 per bag and is applied at a rate as high as 50 lbs/K. Not that I'm recommending that bigterp follow the recommendation, but if he were to apply 41.4 lbs/K of dolomitic pelletized lime this year, I would suggest doing it all at once and getting 'er done.

Of course, I wouldn't pay much attention to a soil test and recommendation where the recommendation for nitrogen is 3#/acre.

[bigterp]

Thanks again!!

I agree with TimmyG and Galuvian. The nitrogen recommendation @ 3lbs/acre just seems weird. My plan is to follow Andy's fall nitrogen regimen plan that I linked in my original post. Coated Urea applied at or less than 2lbs/1K in the next couple of weeks. Followed by another application of regular Urea at the same rate in late fall as a winterizer. I plan to skip the lime application and do another soil test (possibly Logan this time) next year. When would be a good time to get a second test? This coming spring or around this time next year?

Honestly, the more I study my lawn the more I think it's in pretty darn good shape, especially my front lawn. I do have a lot of various weeds in my lawn that I need to address however. Is it best to wait until spring and attack the weeds with a pre-emergent? Or try to address the weeds this fall? I have some Spetracide weed stop for lawns that I could spot treat with, but my lawn could really use an overall treatment for weeds. Spot treating would take forever. I do have a couple of places that I plan to seed in the next week or two. 3 decent size spots that will be new seedings where I am cutting down 3 pine trees and a few other thin spots that will be more of an overseeding. Since I'll have new seeds down in various spots of my lawn I'm thinking any weed treatment should wait until spring, correct?

What about nitrogen application with new seedings? I plan to get some starter fertilizer into the soil in the spots where I'm laying seed down. Followed by a bit of compost after seeding. Should I avoid getting any Urea on the areas with the new seedlings? FWIW, the coated Urea will be going down about 2 weeks after I seed.

Thanks again for all the responses. I really appreciate it. I don't have a ton of knowledge with lawn care, but I'm learning a LOT from just this site and you guys' responses. I at first was wanting to come out of the gate guns blazing and expecting my lawn to look great overnight. But I now realize this is a marathon and not a sprint. And I"m trying to adjust my approach to that sort of thinking.

[andy10917]

I'm not sure where the idea comes from that "my regimen" is two apps of Urea. My current regimen involves weekly smaller Urea apps.

Fall Nitrogen Regimens

[bigterp]

I'm not sure where the idea comes from that "my regimen" is two apps of Urea. My current regimen involves weekly smaller Urea apps.

Fall Nitrogen Regimens

I must be a bit confused about your fall nitrogen regimen. I planned to do the "standard" approach using coated (slow release) Urea. I was reading your post as to say the first application would be the slow release around 6-8 weeks before the average first frost. And then a second application of regular Urea during the "pause" late fall as a winterizer. But now that I have reread your post, it looks like if I do the "standard" approach I would only be using the coated Urea shooting for 1lb/K of nitrogen per month. I plan to do the coated just to help to keep me from potentially burning my lawn. So, should I be doing the entire 1lb/K of nitrogen in one application using 2lb/K of coated Urea? Or would I be better off doing 1lb/K of coated Urea every other week? How long would I continue the coated Urea regimen? FWIW my average first frost date is around October 19th. So I planned to start this regimen around Labor Day.