Chris Soil test 2017

Learn how improving your soil can lead to a better looking lawn
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gibby13
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Chris Soil test 2017

Post by gibby13 » August 10th, 2017, 2:13 pm

Front - 1500sq/ft
Side 1 - 600sq/ft
Back - 7600sq/ft
Side 2 - 600sq/ft

Centipede sod was installed sometime in the past 6 months or so, since we have moved in I have been watering every 3 days to 0.5" and cutting to just over 2". Have been waiting on soil test before putting anything else down.



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gibby13
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Re: Chris Soil test 2017

Post by gibby13 » August 11th, 2017, 11:39 am

So I want to learn how to read soil sample results and have been doing a lot of reading on it. Looks like the first thing I need to correct is the PH and get it to between 5-6 with 5.5 being optimal.

So for applying elemental sulfur for lowering PH by 1 point, I can use this (https://www.planetnatural.com/product/e ... fur-50-lb/) at 10lbs/1K.

Front - 24lbs/1K to lower PH by 2.4, total for 1500sq/ft = 36 lbs
Side 1 - 5lbs/1K to lower PH by 0.5, total for 600sq/ft = 3 lbs
Back - 5lbs/1K to lower PH by 0.5, total for 7600sq/ft = 38 lbs
Side 2 - 26lbs/1K to lower PH by 2.6, total for 600sq/ft = 15.6 lbs

Looks like maybe I would need to do the Front and Side 2 in 2 applications, maybe 10 days apart or so.

Total elemental sulfur needed 92.6lbs

Found 50lbs bags online at link above for $18.95, so not as bad $$$$ wise as I thought it would be.

So that should take care of PH maybe by spring time, if my research and math are correct.

On to researching organic matter (viewtopic.php?forum_uri=organic&t=288&start=)

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andy10917
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Re: Chris Soil test 2017

Post by andy10917 » August 11th, 2017, 2:51 pm

I don't know how much reading your "doing a lot of reading on it" has been, but I disagree almost everywhere -- from the original premise to the details of how to achieve it.

I have a very hard time believing that relatively small areas of adjoining soil vary from pH 6.0 to pH 8.0. Nature just isn't like that. Someone either imported soil or was liming the hell out of the high-pH areas. Any chance that someone was trying to grow Bermuda before the Centipede sod was added?

gibby13
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Re: Chris Soil test 2017

Post by gibby13 » August 11th, 2017, 3:09 pm

andy10917 wrote:
August 11th, 2017, 2:51 pm
I don't know how much reading your "doing a lot of reading on it" has been, but I disagree almost everywhere -- from the original premise to the details of how to achieve it.

I have a very hard time believing that relatively small areas of adjoining soil vary from pH 6.0 to pH 8.0. Nature just isn't like that. Someone either imported soil or was liming the hell out of the high-pH areas. Any chance that someone was trying to grow Bermuda before the Centipede sod was added?
New house built in the last 6-9 months or on 0.4 acres, we are the first owners and moved in about a month ago. They did grading so from the front to back is a pretty decent slope down. We have about a 6-7 foot crawl space underneath the house. Also have seen them bring in sand for some of the houses they are building behind us.

This is what I used to sample the soil https://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Simplic ... B01M7RDBXD

I went down to the 4inch mark, then only kept the inch between 3-4.
I took 6-10 samples from each section of the yard and put them in brand new ziplock bags(just under half full), labeled and mixed the contents up.

I was going to just do 1 test, but figured for the first time might as well break it out into the areas I measured.
Also used where the fence line will be for separating the sides and the back.

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andy10917
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Re: Chris Soil test 2017

Post by andy10917 » August 11th, 2017, 5:45 pm

Alright, let's spend a little time enhancing your "lots of reading".

The process for Sulfur to address pH is biological, not chemical. That means it's slower. MUCH slower. Like years. It doesn't matter whether you like that new or not. And since the grass is already installed, you have to do surface-applied Sulfur. That means even slower, as more than 5 lbs/K at once isn't in play really. We're talking 4-5 YEARS to make a significant drop, and that's if your location is far enough south to support the biological process (borderline). For sure, your pH ain't dropping by 2.4 by next Spring. No way.

Here's more reality. Your TEC is in the very low range. This means it will require less Sulfur but require it much more often. Fail to keep up on it and the pH starts yo-yoing. Bad -- that increases the likelihood of disease.

Any thoughts about "10 day apart" applications are laughable. Think in terms of many months or a year.

If the pH = 8.0 numbers are real, you are going to have a hell of a ride trying to keep the Centipede alive and healthy.


gibby13
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Re: Chris Soil test 2017

Post by gibby13 » August 11th, 2017, 6:00 pm

andy10917 wrote:
August 11th, 2017, 5:45 pm
Alright, let's spend a little time enhancing your "lots of reading".

The process for Sulfur to address pH is biological, not chemical. That means it's slower. MUCH slower. Like years. It doesn't matter whether you like that new or not. And since the grass is already installed, you have to do surface-applied Sulfur. That means even slower, as more than 5 lbs/K at once isn't in play really. We're talking 4-5 YEARS to make a significant drop, and that's if your location is far enough south to support the biological process (borderline). For sure, your pH ain't dropping by 2.4 by next Spring. No way.

Here's more reality. Your TEC is in the very low range. This means it will require less Sulfur but require it much more often. Fail to keep up on it and the pH starts yo-yoing. Bad -- that increases the likelihood of disease.

Any thoughts about "10 day apart" applications are laughable. Think in terms of many months or a year.

If the pH = 8.0 numbers are real, you are going to have a hell of a ride trying to keep the Centipede alive and healthy.
Ok Thanks, I think you are saying I will need to apply sulfur at 5 lbs/K per year for 4-5 years? Which is fine considering we plan on being here for 16 years until the twins are off to college.

What about using aluminum sulfate in addition to sulfur for lowering PH?

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andy10917
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Re: Chris Soil test 2017

Post by andy10917 » August 11th, 2017, 6:42 pm

I would never use an Aluminum product on soil that you intend to keep at or below pH 5.5 -- read about Aluminum toxicity here and elsewhere. Recommendation: don't dabble in things that you bump into on the Internet without the knowledge to separate truth from dangerous/stupid.

gibby13
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Re: Chris Soil test 2017

Post by gibby13 » August 11th, 2017, 6:51 pm

andy10917 wrote:
August 11th, 2017, 6:42 pm
I would never use an Aluminum product on soil that you intend to keep at or below pH 5.5 -- read about Aluminum toxicity here and elsewhere. Recommendation: don't dabble in things that you bump into on the Internet without the knowledge to separate truth from dangerous/stupid.
I wasn't/isn't dabbling, I was asking a question about it as it is one of the recommendations to lower soil PH from Clemson University. They also talked about using iron sulfate to lower PH.

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andy10917
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Re: Chris Soil test 2017

Post by andy10917 » August 11th, 2017, 6:57 pm

Iron Sulfate works in much the manner of Elemental Sulfur, but requires 8X the amount to achieve the same effect.

Aluminum Sulfate is OK if you doing a single plant's soil (like affecting a Hydrangea's bloom color) or a planter for Blueberries.

gibby13
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Re: Chris Soil test 2017

Post by gibby13 » August 11th, 2017, 7:13 pm

I looked around to see what I have on hand.
Looks like I have 2x 20lb bags of 15-0-15.
I also have 2 bags of a pre-m and 2 bags of an insecticide.

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andy10917
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Re: Chris Soil test 2017

Post by andy10917 » September 24th, 2017, 9:05 am

Let's close this up...

Centipede is undemanding, and likes a low-pH soil without a plethora of nutrients. You have soil that is extreme in that it is all over the board. I personally doubt that those numbers can happen naturally so close together, but I have no way to know what was done that could make them happen through manmade efforts.

If the numbers are right, the Centipede will struggle mightily at the pH numbers that are in the 7's and 8's. Surface-applied Sulfur/Aluminum/Iron will not change those numbers reliably or permanently, and may frustrate you by bouncing all over the place seasonally.

I would apply a balanced fertilizer like 10-10-10 or 19-19-19 lightly at half the listed bag rate three times a season, and see how it responds. If the color is disappointing, I'd try Milorganite or light FAS foliar applications.

In the micronutrients, Boron and Copper are quite deficient. Do you want to address them at this time?

gibby13
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Re: Chris Soil test 2017

Post by gibby13 » September 25th, 2017, 12:38 pm

andy10917 wrote:
September 24th, 2017, 9:05 am
Let's close this up...

Centipede is undemanding, and likes a low-pH soil without a plethora of nutrients. You have soil that is extreme in that it is all over the board. I personally doubt that those numbers can happen naturally so close together, but I have no way to know what was done that could make them happen through manmade efforts.

If the numbers are right, the Centipede will struggle mightily at the pH numbers that are in the 7's and 8's. Surface-applied Sulfur/Aluminum/Iron will not change those numbers reliably or permanently, and may frustrate you by bouncing all over the place seasonally.

I would apply a balanced fertilizer like 10-10-10 or 19-19-19 lightly at half the listed bag rate three times a season, and see how it responds. If the color is disappointing, I'd try Milorganite or light FAS foliar applications.

In the micronutrients, Boron and Copper are quite deficient. Do you want to address them at this time?
Thanks Andy.

I backed off watering to making sure it gets 0.5" of water every 5 days either from rain or the sprinklers, and did 15-0-15 on 8/12 and Milo on 8/22 and it did really well and turned a nice darker than usual green color, it is just now starting to turn to a green apple color so I was quite pleased using Milo the first time and it lasted longer than I thought and I still only had to mow once a week.

I will switch to a balanced fertilizer and continue the Milo apps.

Also I am willing to do the Boron and Copper now too.

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andy10917
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Re: Chris Soil test 2017

Post by andy10917 » September 25th, 2017, 12:48 pm

In the micro’s, it’s Boron and Copper. Get Twenty Mule Team Laundry Soap (grocery) and Copper Sulfate (Amazon/EBay), and apply each at three tablespoons/K every 60 days. Read the Micronutrient Application Guide for application specifics.

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