Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Learn how improving your soil can lead to a better looking lawn
nutshellml
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Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by nutshellml » September 14th, 2017, 11:02 am

Morning all, just received my soil test back from Logan Labs, see below.

I was told to mention during the post/analysis from the gurus here the following so you all can provide specific recommendations:
1) I'm in Northern New Jersey (NJ)
2) I put down Spectricide Weed Stop on 8/31 (instructions advise 4 weeks for new seeding), i did this because there were weeds (crabgrass, nutsedge, clover, etc) all over the yard.
3) I am trying to rehabilitate a lawn after purchasing the house recently, there are pretty large bare spots, I will need to seed heavily, most likely the last week of September.
4) My soil is very compact, I was planning to dethatch and aerate prior to seeding.

older post for advice was here, with pictures of my lawn: viewtopic.php?p=315294#p315294

SPECIFIC QUESTIONS:
1) What type of fertilization is required AND when can it be applied knowing that I will need to overseed heavily in the next few weeks.
2) Any other recommendations or help is GREATLY appreciated, I know it's a long process but I want to do it all myself and get it in shape :)

Image

nutshellml
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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by nutshellml » September 14th, 2017, 11:28 am

Lawn is approximately 5000sq ft.

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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by nutshellml » September 14th, 2017, 11:58 am

Results did post correctly, here's another try:
Image

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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by jm1495 » September 14th, 2017, 12:59 pm

1. The fertilization requirements can't be determined without a proper soil test. Without a soil test a starter fertilizer at seed down may not be a bad idea. It might be a little late in the season to try and establish something this year as generally the optimum window for seeding is Aug15th to Sept 15th.

2. I had the same issues when I was first establishing my last yard. Most of those issues will be greatly helped with the application of a Pre-M next spring.

3. With seed more isn't always better. Apply at the recommended rate or there may be issues with fungus.

4. I too had a very compact clay soil. I initially did the same thing you did with aerating. This only made the weed issue worse. I was able to achieve much better results using the BLSC to condition the soil. It also didn't disturb the weed seeds.

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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by nutshellml » September 14th, 2017, 2:53 pm

jm1495 wrote:
September 14th, 2017, 12:59 pm
1. The fertilization requirements can't be determined without a proper soil test. Without a soil test a starter fertilizer at seed down may not be a bad idea. It might be a little late in the season to try and establish something this year as generally the optimum window for seeding is Aug15th to Sept 15th.

2. I had the same issues when I was first establishing my last yard. Most of those issues will be greatly helped with the application of a Pre-M next spring.

3. With seed more isn't always better. Apply at the recommended rate or there may be issues with fungus.

4. I too had a very compact clay soil. I initially did the same thing you did with aerating. This only made the weed issue worse. I was able to achieve much better results using the BLSC to condition the soil. It also didn't disturb the weed seeds.
Thanks, I posted the soil test results above in comments, didn't post right away.

I should still be able to seed, no? So your recommendation is not to seed now, fertilize according to the soil results, apply Pre-M next spring, and seed when? I have some pretty big bare spots I need to take care of.

Also, forgive my ignorance, but what is BLSC?


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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by TimmyG » September 14th, 2017, 4:03 pm


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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by Oldschool » September 14th, 2017, 4:23 pm


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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by Marinegrunt » September 14th, 2017, 5:49 pm

You're about a month behind on getting seed down. You might get by with some fescue or rye but bluegrass likely won't have enough time to get established before the first frost hits. You may get lucky and have a late frost though. The idea is to get seed down so it has plenty of time to get established before winter. If you wait too long it's not strong enough to survive.

It won't hurt anything besides your wallet to try and seed. I would get it down asap though.

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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by MorpheusPA » September 14th, 2017, 8:23 pm

I just kinda stumbled on this, but hey, I'm here.

Sure, you can still seed but, as noted, it's extremely late. Fescue or rye, if put down like right now will still manage. KBG should be OK, but it may not fully sprout before it gets too cold. Fortunately, it's pretty winter-tolerant, but losses will still be higher than you might wish due to the late planting.

Your soil is...kind of all over the place, actually. It would remind me of what mine started out like, except mine isn't sand and mine was short on everything.

This timeline assumes you are NOT going to seed, or aren't overly concerned with any impact (minimal, actually) that any of this has on the seed. If you are...well, I really wouldn't adjust this all that much, truthfully.

Feeding: I don't specify normal feedings except under extraordinary circumstances. That's intentional as the schedule is complicated enough!

Exchange Capacity About 3.5: Sandy soil (it could be finer given some clays, but given your area, I'm going to guess sandy). It holds very little in the way of resources, so it'll require rebalancing very often. On the up side, it doesn't take much to balance the resources because it doesn't hold much!

pH 4.7 and 5.7: Quite acidic and not bad, respectively. Both need help, but the front is pretty close to where I started at close to 4.5. It's no wonder the grass doesn't grow well. I go into more detail and the correction under calcium, magnesium, and potassium because pH isn't a number that measures much that I can use.

Organic Matter 2-ish: On the border between Poor and Fair. With an exchange capacity (ME) this low, pour on the OM. Chop in all your fall leaves. Feed organically. Find a local carpenter and see if you can get their untreated wood sawdust free. Toss coffee grounds onto the lawn (I'm serious). No source is too small. This will increase your ME, plus increase the water retention of your soil. It's not extreme, but every little bit helps.

Sulfur 10-ish: Normal and perfect.

Phosphorus 645 and up: High, but certainly not a problem. No phosphorus is required or desired, but you don't have to specifically avoid small P sources. Gardens with flowering plants will tend to like this (my P levels in the gardens are...much higher than this...)

Calcium 28% and 51%: Extremely low in the front. Low in the back. The target for a sandy soil with good rainfall is 70%. While magnesium could use a boost, I really want to correct Ca faster than I can while adjusting Mg via lime. So I'll go with a calcitic lime, Encap, Mag-I-Cal, Pennington Fast Lime, or the like (the listed three work well, others may be slower!) Recommendation below.

Magnesium 8.3 and 15.3: A bit deceptive in the front, which is lower than it looks like due to the calcium not being there to knock the magnesium out of the CEC points. However, I'm content with a slower adjustment. Although essential (magnesium is the central molecule of chlorophyll), you aren't that short and I don't want to overload you in fall tasks. We use Epsom salt for this, the kind you get at the drugstore for a couple bucks in the bath or first aid sections.

Potassium 1.8% and 1.5%: Again, this is over-enhanced by the missing calcium, and yet it's still unacceptably low. This is more of a priority than the magnesium, and absorbs into the soil easily, so I'll recommend it for this year yet but I don't care if it rides into spring of next year instead. Just keep a month between applications and target the amounts listed. We use potassium sulfate (sulfate of potash) to fix this, which you can get from some garden or landscape stores, or they'll order it for you. Recommendations below.

Sodium 3.1 and 2%: Not a problem, but it's edging a little high in the front. Adding calcium should help fix this.

Minor Elements: A quick eyeball only shows a problem with boron, although you'll want Andy to review these. I defer to his opinion. I do mention both boron and iron below.

Iron: 280 plus or minus: Really excellent! While no iron is required, you don't need to worry about incidental iron sources or adding iron directly. But you won't need it for most non-elite seed.

Boron 0.3-ish: Low. While not the most important element, I'll always work to move your lawn into the most optimal range on everything. Me? I'd fix this. We use Milorganite as a carrier and 20 Mule Team Borax as the boron source. You can purchase 20 Mules at the grocery store in the laundry section. In a wheelbarrow or the like, dump the Milo. Spraying very, very lightly with water (I use a spray bottle like the kind people use to damp their clothes when they iron) will help the boron stick. Add the recommended amount of 20 Mule Team Borax and stir, spraying occasionally to get the stuff to stick to the Milo. Then apply over the recommended area. So if going for bag rate Milorganite (1 bag per 2,500 square feet), you'd add 10 tablespoons of 20 Mule Team Borax.


Recommendations:

September 15: (And seriously, I mean Right Now as we're coming into the end of the season very quickly) Apply 5 pounds of calcitic lime per thousand square feet in the front. Apply 3 pounds of calcitic lime per thousand square feet in the rear.

October 1-15, whenever you can: Apply 3 pounds of potassium sulfate per thousand square feet across the whole lawn.

April 15, 2018: Apply 5 pounds of calcitic lime per thousand square feet in the front. Apply 2 to 3 pounds of calcitic lime per thousand square feet in the rear.

May 1, 2018: Apply 2 pounds per thousand Epsom salt in the front; apply 1 pound per thousand Epsom salt in the back. Apply 4 tablespoons of 20 Mule Team Borax in Milorganite carrier per thousand square feet (you can move this date if you wish; it's not critical and can go with any other application).

May 15, 2018: Apply 3 pounds of potassium sulfate per thousand square feet across the whole lawn.

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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by nutshellml » September 14th, 2017, 10:31 pm

MorpheusPA wrote:
September 14th, 2017, 8:23 pm
Sure, you can still seed but, as noted, it's extremely late. Fescue or rye, if put down like right now will still manage. KBG should be OK, but it may not fully sprout before it gets too cold. Fortunately, it's pretty winter-tolerant, but losses will still be higher than you might wish due to the late planting.

Your soil is...kind of all over the place, actually. It would remind me of what mine started out like, except mine isn't sand and mine was short on everything.

This timeline assumes you are NOT going to seed, or aren't overly concerned with any impact (minimal, actually) that any of this has on the seed. If you are...well, I really wouldn't adjust this all that much, truthfully.

Feeding: I don't specify normal feedings except under extraordinary circumstances. That's intentional as the schedule is complicated enough!

Recommendations:

September 15: (And seriously, I mean Right Now as we're coming into the end of the season very quickly) Apply 5 pounds of calcitic lime per thousand square feet in the front. Apply 3 pounds of calcitic lime per thousand square feet in the rear.

October 1-15, whenever you can: Apply 3 pounds of potassium sulfate per thousand square feet across the whole lawn.

April 15, 2018: Apply 5 pounds of calcitic lime per thousand square feet in the front. Apply 2 to 3 pounds of calcitic lime per thousand square feet in the rear.

May 1, 2018: Apply 2 pounds per thousand Epsom salt in the front; apply 1 pound per thousand Epsom salt in the back. Apply 4 tablespoons of 20 Mule Team Borax in Milorganite carrier per thousand square feet (you can move this date if you wish; it's not critical and can go with any other application).

May 15, 2018: Apply 3 pounds of potassium sulfate per thousand square feet across the whole lawn.
MorpheusPA, AWESOME info and can’t thank you enough for taking the time to go into such detail. I’m very overwhelmed with all of the info, science, but dedicated to learn and do this myself w/o “lawn doctor”. So I do have a few (many) questions that I’m hoping you can provide some insight/guidance.

So, I did not seed in the spring, because from reading here and speaking with people they advised to seed in the fall. This summer was tough as I had many bare spots and the weeds took over.
So your recommendations are assuming I don’t seed, but if not, then can I seed in the spring with your recommended fertilizing schedule in the spring?

ALSO - Taking into consideration I had A LOT of crabgrass that I definitely need some Pre-M work done this spring that may prevent spring seeding, no? Almost feels like there’s not right time to seed, lol.

Also, my grass is very compact, from the recommendations here seems like aerating will only exasperate my weed problem come spring and to go with the BLSC method which I was going to try and do now, in doing so, will that affect any of your recommendations?

Regarding the Calcitic Lime – I checked local HD/Lowes and didn’t see it, I did find something on amazon or ACE to have it shipped, but all take some time. I’m in Bergen County, NJ, any recommendations? I’d like to get it down TODAY like you recommended. Really naïve question, but as far as application, in front, I would just calculate my front sq ft. and if it’s 2000, dump 10lbs into a spreader and just keep cris-crossing.

Finally, since my lawn is all over the place, you said you don’t specify “normal” feedings. Do you mean the Lawn Maintenance Schedule recommendations on the home page? Or the “Normal” fertilizing usually done in the fall, spring, summer?

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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by MorpheusPA » September 14th, 2017, 11:39 pm

nutshellml wrote:
September 14th, 2017, 10:31 pm
So, I did not seed in the spring, because from reading here and speaking with people they advised to seed in the fall. This summer was tough as I had many bare spots and the weeds took over.
So your recommendations are assuming I don’t seed, but if not, then can I seed in the spring with your recommended fertilizing schedule in the spring?
Even if you do seed, none of this will interfere. The shot of calcium might make the initial sprouts a bit paler than normal (they'll be fighting a high-calcium layer for iron), but grass doesn't care that much and will happily grow in concrete...which is calcium.

If you don't seed now, research a winter seeding. It sprouts as soon as it can in spring, usually late March. It's the second best option but still a far cry from a proper fall seeding.

I did both; fall renovation, and winter seeding of areas that didn't grow well. It worked out fine, but I was careful to keep the lawn well-watered the following summer.
ALSO - Taking into consideration I had A LOT of crabgrass that I definitely need some Pre-M work done this spring that may prevent spring seeding, no? Almost feels like there’s not right time to seed, lol.
Yes, although CG doesn't sprout until soil temperatures reach 80 or so and rising, so an April application of pre-m usually isn't helping much with the crabgrass unless it'll last into June.

However, other random grasses and broadleafs run rampant in spring, so there's that.
Also, my grass is very compact, from the recommendations here seems like aerating will only exasperate my weed problem come spring and to go with the BLSC method which I was going to try and do now, in doing so, will that affect any of your recommendations?
Not at all; Andy and I stabilized the BLSC and Kelp Help stuff together, actually! BLSC, sprayed atop newly-planted seed, actually helps it sprout a bit. Kelp Help will...well, help it sprout as well.

I use small amounts of both in my flower flats when planting those every year. It speeds up germination and strengthens the sprouts.
Regarding the Calcitic Lime – I checked local HD/Lowes and didn’t see it, I did find something on amazon or ACE to have it shipped, but all take some time. I’m in Bergen County, NJ, any recommendations?
Tractor Supply? I'd really rather you used Mir-A-Cal, Pennington Fast Lime, or Encap. But if it came down to it, any calcitic lime (<3% total magnesium or so) would do in a pinch. It's likely to be a lot slower (larger grind size), but it would do if it absolutely had to...
I’d like to get it down TODAY like you recommended. Really naïve question, but as far as application, in front, I would just calculate my front sq ft. and if it’s 2000, dump 10lbs into a spreader and just keep cris-crossing.
Sure, that'll work great! It's hard to intimately know your spreader for a while (and even so, we all get it wrong anyway), so set it low and go over several times. If it's taking absolutely forever, step it up a notch. Nobody wants to walk around 30 times.

Pro tip: if you're a little high or low, no big deal. You can compensate for it next time, or simply ignore it. Your soil is going to require yearly adjustment anyway, and errors aren't going to be that much of a problem. It's hard to overdo the calcium so badly you have a problem, particularly in a sandy soil.

The key here is that your plants--not just the grass--are fighting for resources that simply aren't there. Any change is going to be an improvement, although I'd really like to adjust your soil to around a pH of 6.5-6.8. A bit high, but your soil won't store much.
Finally, since my lawn is all over the place, you said you don’t specify “normal” feedings. Do you mean the Lawn Maintenance Schedule recommendations on the home page? Or the “Normal” fertilizing usually done in the fall, spring, summer?
It does depend. If you go organic, feedings are usually May 1, August 1, September 1, and October 1. Plus winterization when growth stops (probably around Thanksgiving, but give or take a whole lot) with a good, high-nitrogen synthetic (I use urea, but that can be a bit touchy; something around 30-5-5 from the Big Box Store would be fine).

Synthetically, feedings for both of us would be Memorial Day, Labor Day, October 1, and winterization (when growth stops, again). Some slip in a bit extra around September 15 and/or October 15, or spoon-feed throughout, but that's not strictly necessary, particularly if you're not a complete stickler on how the lawn grows each passing week.

I am a stickler, but I go organic so I don't have to spoon feed. Nature does it for me, appropriately for that week's weather.

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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by nutshellml » September 15th, 2017, 1:15 pm

So my local Gardner has MAG-I-CAL, they advised it isn't the same, but will raise my pH just the same as lime, but that's the only thing they have so wanted to ask here.

I would also be interested if you could share your organic feeding methods or products used since we are close in location, I would assume I would use similar.

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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by MorpheusPA » September 15th, 2017, 2:36 pm

nutshellml wrote:
September 15th, 2017, 1:15 pm
So my local Gardner has MAG-I-CAL, they advised it isn't the same, but will raise my pH just the same as lime, but that's the only thing they have so wanted to ask here.
Mag-I-Cal is perfect. It's actually exactly the same thing, I keep forgetting that they changed the name. Mir-A-Cal was also the name of...er...a male enhancement product...
I would also be interested if you could share your organic feeding methods or products used since we are close in location, I would assume I would use similar.
My current, maintenance level feeding is completely soybean meal, since soy is a local product to us and pretty cheap. In my case, I get it at a not-so-local grain mill, and go twice a year.

Application of 15 pounds per thousand square feet feeds the lawn very well for several months. You'll notice I stack up feedings in fall--grasses feed most heavily at that point.

So for me, May 1, August 1 (this one is technically optional), September 1, and October 1.

Then, when growth stops but the lawn is still green (mine's usually green 12 months a year, though), I apply 2.2 pounds of urea (also from my local grain mill and $13 per 50 lbs right now) per thousand square feet. I also use urea in the gardens and on the indoor plants, just diluted more than 1:100 in the watering can or garden feeder.

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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by nutshellml » September 19th, 2017, 11:27 am

MorpheusPA wrote:
September 14th, 2017, 8:23 pm

Recommendations:

September 15: (And seriously, I mean Right Now as we're coming into the end of the season very quickly) Apply 5 pounds of calcitic lime per thousand square feet in the front. Apply 3 pounds of calcitic lime per thousand square feet in the rear.
@MorpheusPA - another follow-up. I bought one 30lb bag EnCap and the recommendations/guidelines are:
Soil pH Rate (lbs./5,000 sq. ft.)
6.0 and above 30 lbs. / 1 bag
5.5 – 6.0 60 lbs. / 2 bags
5.0 – 5.5 90 lbs. / 3 bags
Less than 5.0 120 lbs. / 4 bags

With my lawn being 4.7 and 5.7 pH seems as if they recommend 4 bags, but your recommendation was 5 lbs p/thousand. If my front lawn is approx. 3000 sq ft that would be 15 lbs, but is that enough based on EnCap guidelines, or am I messing something up ?

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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by MorpheusPA » September 19th, 2017, 12:58 pm

Their numbers are for "instant reset" levels of application and on an average soil.

I'm gliding into where you should be without shocking the current grass or other soil biology (bacteria really object to sudden extreme pH shifts). And your soil is very, very sandy and not capable of holding a lot of resources, so I also reduced the amount applied to account for that. Otherwise, it ends up washing through and out without doing any good.

Between September and April, you'll end up applying 10 pounds per thousand in front (less in back where you don't need that much). The split app gives it time to work in over the fall, winter, and early spring before striking it again.

That's actually not that far off my absolute maximum application recommendations. Any more than that would turn the grass pale yellow-green (you'll likely notice a slight color loss even at 5 pounds per thousand!)

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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by nutshellml » September 22nd, 2017, 9:34 pm

@MorpheusPA

Few more questions as I move along... So, I used the MAG-I-CAL front and back. I seeded (yes I know i'm late, but give it a go, and will also try winter seeding per your recommendation).

October 1-15 planning on the potassium sulfate.

I want to fertilize with UREA 46-0-0 per your and @andy10917 recommendations, but I read another article that said Coated urea isn't good for fall fertilizer.
Questions -
1) What specific nitrogen do you recommend?
2) Will that affect any overseeding/seeding I have done and will do in Winter?
3) When you you apply it? consistently until growth stops? Or a one time Winterizer come end October?
4) Do you even recommend the nitrogen since my Potassium is low and you recommended potassium Sulfate

Thanks again!

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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by andy10917 » September 23rd, 2017, 8:52 am

Nutjob:

There is no specific Nitrogen that is better, and as a matter of fact the cheapest fast-release Urea (unmarked paper bag and all) is the Score in this situation. Keep the Urea apps away from Lime apps whenever you can.

Nitrogen and Potassium applications are independent, but Potassium apps in the late season are not recommended - there is some test evidence that it can increase Snow Mold damage in the late Winter/Spring. As there is plenty of time to get it down at other times, why roll the dice?

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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by nutshellml » September 23rd, 2017, 9:10 am

andy10917 wrote:
September 23rd, 2017, 8:52 am
Nutjob:

There is no specific Nitrogen that is better, and as a matter of fact the cheapest fast-release Urea (unmarked paper bag and all) is the Score in this situation. Keep the Urea apps away from Lime apps whenever you can.

Nitrogen and Potassium applications are independent, but Potassium apps in the late season are not recommended - there is some test evidence that it can increase Snow Mold damage in the late Winter/Spring. As there is plenty of time to get it down at other times, why roll the dice?
Ok, that's what I was planning to go with per your article and @MorpheusPA recommendation, UREA 46-0-0, I just thought i read somewhere that it wasn't. But good, I'll pick some up.

Regarding the Potassium Sulfate in October, that was per @MorpheusPA due to my soil test (above). I already applied the lime and was going to space out the Potassium about a month and apply that in October. Should I reconsider?

Will either of the above affect seeding/overseeding that has been done recently?

Thanks,

the Nutjob ;) lol

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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by andy10917 » September 23rd, 2017, 11:25 am

Each ST6 member has their own tolerance of when to stop applying a nutrient that may have side effects - I don't see the urgent need to apply SOP near the end of season -- just pick up next Spring. I'm pretty conservative about side-effects.

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Re: Soil Test Results - Help w/ specific analysis/advice

Post by Billybob » September 23rd, 2017, 3:36 pm

Nutjob......Lol. Sorry but that's funny.

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