Learn how improving your soil can lead to a better looking lawn
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andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
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by andy10917 » October 15th, 2017, 1:24 pm
It has been unseasonable warm up here this fall and we have not had a first frost yet and the grass is still growing.
Doesn't mean sh!t. Do not bet that an unseasonable run will continue - it's a fool's bet. The smart move is to bet on a return to more normal, and sometimes quickly. It was predicted that we will hit 82 degrees here today, and then we are expecting frost on Tuesday night - right on the normal 10/17 average first frost.
Do you start with the nitrogen or the lime or does it not matter?
It doesn't matter. Lime causes urea to volatilize somewhat. Leaving time between applications is all that really matters. Cheap lime can take 12-14 months to integrate, and good (humated) lime is closer to 5-8 weeks to complete the whole process. 2 weeks means it's not really sitting on the surface anymore.
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ken-n-nancy
- Posts: 2571
- Joined: July 17th, 2014, 3:58 pm
- Location: Bedford, NH
- Grass Type: Front: KBG (Bewitched+Prosperity); Side: Bewitched KBG; Back: Fine Fescue Blend + Prosperity
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Experienced
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by ken-n-nancy » October 15th, 2017, 4:59 pm
reggie517 wrote: ↑October 15th, 2017, 11:21 am
So how do I go about it in the spring won't I run into the same issue? Should I toss the lime down before the first spring app of fertilizer?
Yes, the lime can go down basically as soon as the ground is thawed out. The fertilizer should wait until after the grass has greened up on its own and has started to run out of oomph. This last year, the ground was pretty much thawed out by the second week of April, but I didn't put down any fertilizer until May 11th.
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reggie517
- Posts: 273
- Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
- Location: Merrimack NH
- Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
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by reggie517 » April 11th, 2018, 11:46 am
[quote=andy10917 post_id=317586 time=1507471930 user_id=100]
In the micro’s, it’s Boron and Copper. Get Twenty Mule Team Laundry Soap (grocery) and Copper Sulfate (Amazon/EBay), and apply each at three tablespoons/K every 60 days. Read the Micronutrient Application Guide for application specifics.
[/quote]
Andy just want to confirm this is ok for the copper sulfate. I am a little concerned that it is used as a root killer and tree stump remover...
https://www.amazon.com/2LBS-Copper-Sulf ... er+sulfate
Thanks
Rich
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andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Post
by andy10917 » April 11th, 2018, 3:24 pm
Yup, that's the stuff. There are many things that are needed in very small quantities (tablespoons per 1000 sq ft) that are bad if applied at much higher amounts.
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reggie517
- Posts: 273
- Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
- Location: Merrimack NH
- Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Post
by reggie517 » April 11th, 2018, 4:16 pm
[quote=andy10917 post_id=320708 time=1523474671 user_id=100]
Yup, that's the stuff. There are many things that are needed in very small quantities (tablespoons per 1000 sq ft) that are bad if applied at much higher amounts.
[/quote]
Thanks Andy. Also I want to confirm on the lime. You said 10#/K so on my 9k sq ft lawn I need to put down 90# of lime :O Just seems like a lot but I guess since I am trying to raise the PH i need more correct.
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andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Post
by andy10917 » April 11th, 2018, 7:29 pm
Think so on the Lime? I'm thinking "not so much". If you were using the cheap dolomitic stuff, the rate would be 50 lbs/K. How would you like to do my yard (44K) in the "good old days" - that's 2200 lbs to load and unload from the car.
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reggie517
- Posts: 273
- Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
- Location: Merrimack NH
- Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Post
by reggie517 » April 11th, 2018, 9:15 pm
That is a big lawn! Thanks again for all the help.
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reggie517
- Posts: 273
- Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
- Location: Merrimack NH
- Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Post
by reggie517 » April 22nd, 2018, 10:21 pm
[quote=andy10917 post_id=317586 time=1507471930 user_id=100]
Since the Phosphorus is actually high, we need to boost the Potassium individually - get Sulfate of Potash (SOP, 0-0-50) and apply April to September, monthly at 2 lbs/K. Go ahead and use the Milorganite with that as the budget allows.
In the micro’s, it’s Boron and Copper. Get Twenty Mule Team Laundry Soap (grocery) and Copper Sulfate (Amazon/EBay), and apply each at three tablespoons/K every 60 days. Read the Micronutrient Application Guide for application specifics.
[/quote]
Andy last couple questions. Is it ok to apply the lime, sop, and micros at the same time?
Also when I apply my first dose of N in Mat I should use like a 19-0-0 or 21-0-0 slow release since I am already putting down the SOP monthly?
Thanks!
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andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Post
by andy10917 » April 23rd, 2018, 6:28 pm
It's best if you can separate the Lime from the other nutrients by two weeks.
I don't like slow-release (costs too much with little added value), so I don't have much of an opinion about how to work it into a plan.
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reggie517
- Posts: 273
- Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
- Location: Merrimack NH
- Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Post
by reggie517 » April 23rd, 2018, 7:26 pm
[quote=andy10917 post_id=321072 time=1524522499 user_id=100]
It's best if you can separate the Lime from the other nutrients by two weeks.
I don't like slow-release (costs too much with little added value), so I don't have much of an opinion about how to work it into a plan.
[/quote]
What do you recommended for N then?
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andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Post
by andy10917 » April 23rd, 2018, 7:34 pm
Fast-Release Urea (46-0-0) applied at half the rate twice as often, Milorganite/Bay-State, or Soybean Meal. Those are my go-to's.
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reggie517
- Posts: 273
- Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
- Location: Merrimack NH
- Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Post
by reggie517 » April 23rd, 2018, 10:36 pm
[quote=andy10917 post_id=321080 time=1524526477 user_id=100]
Fast-Release Urea (46-0-0) applied at half the rate twice as often, Milorganite/Bay-State, or Soybean Meal. Those are my go-to's.
[/quote]
Is there a risk in burning with the Urea? Would you be able to provide the rate based on my soil test?
Also is milo/baystate fast release?
Thanks
Rich
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andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Post
by andy10917 » April 24th, 2018, 1:05 am
Applied at half the amount and twice the frequency, you have to make the same dumb mistake in the same exact spot on two successive applications. One lb/K of 46-0-0 urea delivers 0.5 lbs/K (roughly) every two weeks. Do that instead of monthly N apps.
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reggie517
- Posts: 273
- Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
- Location: Merrimack NH
- Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Post
by reggie517 » April 24th, 2018, 2:40 pm
[quote=andy10917 post_id=321094 time=1524546343 user_id=100]
Applied at half the amount and twice the frequency, you have to make the same dumb mistake in the same exact spot on two successive applications. One lb/K of 46-0-0 urea delivers 0.5 lbs/K (roughly) every two weeks. Do that instead of monthly N apps.
[/quote]
So I should apply the Urea at 1/lb/k every two weeks all season long or just spring and fall? I was reading some people use Urea in the spring and fall and then switch to Milo/Baystate.
Do you mean every two weeks as needed?
Also should I avoid applying the Urea in hot weather?
I also have a tendency to get some brown patch so will the extra N cause more issues?
Thanks
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andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Post
by andy10917 » April 25th, 2018, 12:11 am
I don't know NH summers well - if it truly gets hot, don't force growth in Summer. In NY, I will use some synthetics until very late June and then only light apps of Milorganite until mid-August, when I want to wake up the lawn for the Fall Regimen.
The 1 lb/K Urea every two weeks is safe, but aggressive.
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reggie517
- Posts: 273
- Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
- Location: Merrimack NH
- Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Post
by reggie517 » April 25th, 2018, 9:49 am
[quote=andy10917 post_id=321130 time=1524629476 user_id=100]
I don't know NH summers well - if it truly gets hot, don't force growth in Summer. In NY, I will use some synthetics until very late June and then only light apps of Milorganite until mid-August, when I want to wake up the lawn for the Fall Regimen.
The 1 lb/K Urea every two weeks is safe, but aggressive.
[/quote]
The summers can get hot and humid in July and Aug.
So how about this plan.
May-Jun - Urea every two weeks
Jun-Aug - Milo/Baystate once a month?
Sept - Urea in prep for fall regime.
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reggie517
- Posts: 273
- Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
- Location: Merrimack NH
- Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Post
by reggie517 » April 27th, 2018, 9:15 am
[quote=reggie517 post_id=321143 time=1524664171 user_id=5426]
[quote=andy10917 post_id=321130 time=1524629476 user_id=100]
I don't know NH summers well - if it truly gets hot, don't force growth in Summer. In NY, I will use some synthetics until very late June and then only light apps of Milorganite until mid-August, when I want to wake up the lawn for the Fall Regimen.
The 1 lb/K Urea every two weeks is safe, but aggressive.
[/quote]
The summers can get hot and humid in July and Aug.
So how about this plan.
May-Jun - Urea every two weeks
Jun-Aug - Milo/Baystate once a month?
Sept - Urea in prep for fall regime.
[/quote]
Any thoughts Andy?
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andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Post
by andy10917 » April 27th, 2018, 11:12 am
That's a good place to start.
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reggie517
- Posts: 273
- Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
- Location: Merrimack NH
- Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Post
by reggie517 » April 27th, 2018, 11:20 am
[quote=andy10917 post_id=321233 time=1524841933 user_id=100]
That's a good place to start.
[/quote]
Thanks wasn't sure if I should do milo/bay state every two weeks but will start with 1x month
Any other last minute suggestions or changes?
Thanks again for all the help again!
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andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Post
by andy10917 » April 27th, 2018, 11:22 am
Nope!
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