Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

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Hammbone81
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Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by Hammbone81 » June 19th, 2018, 12:10 pm

I all. We just moved into new construction in March 2018. KBG sod was laid late summer / early fall. It's sitting on sandy soil with very little black dirt (maybe 1-2"). Lawn (actual grass) size is 10,500ft².

Here are the details of what I've done so far since we've moved in:
4/17 - SBM @ 14.2lb/k
5/1 - Milo @ 22.8lb/k
5/3 - .8" rain
5/4 - .2" rain
5/10 - KelpHelp, soil conditioner (w/yucca), TKO Phosphite @ 4oz/K
5/12 - 1.45" rain
5/14 - .05" rain
5/30 - 1.3" rain

5/31 - KelpHelp, soil conditioner (w/yucca)
6/2 - Milo & Ironite
6/4 - TKO Phosphite @ 3oz/K
6/9 - irrigated .5" water
6/10 - 1.0" rain

6/13 - Serenade @ 4oz/K
6/18 - .45" rain
6/19 - .35" rain


Memorial Day weekend and Father's Day weekend were both had 3-4 day stretches of 95°F+ temps. My lawn hasn't show signs of heat stress like my neighbors, but it's not looking good either. It's been going to seed head all spring (still is) at about 3". I was cutting at 3" and just jacked it up to 3.5" cutting height last week (I religiously follow the 1/3 rule).

Below are my soil test results. They're pitiful and I need help! I'd like to know the "best" plan, and not necessarily the "quick and easy" plan. I'm willing to commit.
I know OM of .83%, pH of 8.0, and exchangeable hydrogen at zero are all very BAD! I also know I need to get magnesium up, but not sure how to do that without also boosting calcium.

Lab Report:
http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y50 ... mm3pkg.jpg

Thank you in advance for your help!

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andy10917
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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by andy10917 » June 19th, 2018, 10:18 pm

If you don't put n entry into the Soil Test Interpretation Queue, your test will never be interpreted.

Hammbone81
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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by Hammbone81 » June 19th, 2018, 10:29 pm

andy10917 wrote:
June 19th, 2018, 10:18 pm
If you don't put n entry into the Soil Test Interpretation Queue, your test will never be interpreted.
Yep. I was just waiting for my post to be approved by a moderator so it could grab the URL link. Just got the link and posted it there. Thank you.

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ken-n-nancy
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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by ken-n-nancy » June 19th, 2018, 10:37 pm

Hammbone81 wrote:
June 19th, 2018, 12:10 pm
We just moved into new construction in March 2018. KBG sod was laid late summer / early fall.
The above pair of sentences has me a little puzzled, as how to how the house was completed in March 2018, but the sod was laid in late summer / early fall, yet it's now only June 2018.

Did you actually move in during March 2017? Or, was the sod laid in August/September 2017, many months before you moved in?

Hammbone81
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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by Hammbone81 » June 19th, 2018, 10:51 pm

House is a spec house. It was built in 2017. We moved in March 2018. Sod was laid 2017. House sat empty a few months.
While the sod has taken and is holding up against some heat stress much better than my neighbors, it's not looking so great. Its very pale looking. I'm guessing a pH of 8.0 might have something to do with that.


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andy10917
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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by andy10917 » June 19th, 2018, 11:01 pm

While many (most?) people looking at their test results jump right to the pH, it's actually a rather nothing number - I'm much more interested in what went into making the number. Your soil is mostly deficient straight across the board.

BTW: congrats(?) on having the 2018 lowest organic matter percentage that I believe I've seen this year. That's gonna take a while to fix (did I hear "a decade"?).

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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by Hammbone81 » June 19th, 2018, 11:09 pm

Wonderful!... Thanks for the pep talk. I went from awesome soil to this crap.

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andy10917
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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by andy10917 » June 19th, 2018, 11:27 pm

Want a pep talk? This is the "lawn/soil" I started with:
Image

The dark brown that you might think was OK soil in the foreground wasn't -- that was some weird brown moss.

Hammbone81
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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by Hammbone81 » June 19th, 2018, 11:58 pm

Well that gives me hope.

Here's a pic right off my back deck. This pic is a month old. They just brought in heavy equipment and started doing some grading work this week.
Image[/URL]

Here is what the lawn is looking like right now. Seedheads were horrible this year. Most of it's cleared up but still a little remains. Grass is thin and pale.
Image[/URL]
Image[/URL]
Image[/URL]
BTW - that was mowed with a manaul reel mower.

I'm very much looking forward to recommendations based on my soil test report. Thanks for all your help and all that you do!

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ken-n-nancy
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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by ken-n-nancy » June 20th, 2018, 8:45 am

Given those numbers, it really looks like the builders probably just scraped off the topsoil to level the lot, leaving just the subsoil, and then simply put the sod on top of that. Was a clear difference visible when you collected the soil sample? Is the sample from just the 3-to-4 inch layer of (lousy) soil?

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ken-n-nancy
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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by ken-n-nancy » June 20th, 2018, 9:04 am

By the way, the technique to raise magnesium without boosting calcium is to use Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) - yes, the stuff people use to soak their feet. However, I don’t know if that would be ill-advised at your pH. It may be better to not add more cations; the ST6 folks will know what to do.

Seems to me you’re going to have a great lawn - your record keeping of precipitation and willingness to mow 1/4 acre with a push mower bode well for the level of care! With proper mowing, irrigation, and fertilization, your grass will do fine and you’ll get that soil improved over time!

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andy10917
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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by andy10917 » June 23rd, 2018, 11:47 am

OK, time to rock-n-roll...

You have a soil that is a bit onto the Heavy side of Loam - that's OK because the mineral component of the soil is going to help hold nutrients and save you from serious leaching due to the lack of organic matter in your soil -- and "lack" is very kind, as "almost nonexistent" is close to the truth. You need to acquire and spread organic matter in quantity now, always and forever. We are not talking about a bag of Milorganite or Soybean Meal every now and then. Free stuff is best (leaves, compost, etc), but paid stuff is required if large amounts of free stuff can't be gotten in quantity. It isn't the sexy angle that promises "dark green in 72 hours", but it holds the nutrients that your paying your hard-earned cash on, and your hard work.

On to the cations - ken-n-nancy rightly caught themselves before they made a rookie soil person's mistake. The mistake would be chasing a Ca:Mg ratio in the face of a rather extreme situation. The cation situation shows that the Base Saturation for Calcium is 86% - far too high. If we try to balance the Magnesium to achieve the ratio, we will worsen the problem, and raise the pH even higher. The Magnesium raw number is high enough to avoid a deficiency and symptoms. On the other hand, the Potassium number is low enough to cause symptoms, and needs to be addressed.

The end-result of the cation situation is a pH of 8.0. We don't want it higher, even if we can't lower it substantially.

In the anions, the Phosphorus is also quite deficient. When both the Phosphorus and Potassium are deficient, we use inexpensive balanced garden fertilizers to fix both while also adding the necessary Nitrogen. Locate and post the NPK of a balanced fertilizer like 10-10-10 or 19-19-19, and we'll get the app rates and frequency (likely monthly) for you.

Joining the deficiency party are Iron and the micronutrients. The Iron will need to be supplied by foliar FAS applications for best color - read about it in the Articles area. Soil-applied Iron will not work for you.

Let me know if you'd like to attack the Boron (essentially unmeasurable and nonexistent), Copper and Zinc shortages this year.

You've got a lot of work in front of you, but the soil could produce a nice lawn with effort and time...

Hammbone81
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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by Hammbone81 » June 24th, 2018, 11:14 pm

Andy - Thank you for the in depth analysis. I plan to respond with more detailed follow up once I get home tomorrow and have a laptop in front of me. Nonetheless, I want to acknowledge your response and say thank you.

More from me tomorrow...

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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by Hammbone81 » June 25th, 2018, 10:26 pm

Andy - Again, thank you for the in-depth analysis. I have already started doing my homework on acquiring materials. Of course I have a few questions and comments:

First of all - you're feedback explains while even though I have already started pouring on SBM, Milo, Ironite, Soil Conditioner, Kelp Help, TKO Phosphite, the lawn does not seem to be responding to any of it. It's still pale green, thin, and still in seedheads. (Although, Serenade seems to be doing it's job.)
andy10917 wrote:
June 23rd, 2018, 11:47 am
You have a soil that is a bit onto the Heavy side of Loam - that's OK because the mineral component of the soil is going to help hold nutrients and save you from serious leaching due to the lack of organic matter in your soil -- and "lack" is very kind, as "almost nonexistent" is close to the truth. You need to acquire and spread organic matter in quantity now, always and forever. We are not talking about a bag of Milorganite or Soybean Meal every now and then. Free stuff is best (leaves, compost, etc), but paid stuff is required if large amounts of free stuff can't be gotten in quantity. It isn't the sexy angle that promises "dark green in 72 hours", but it holds the nutrients that your paying your hard-earned cash on, and your hard work.
Should I just STOP using Milorganite for now?
Our local city municipality collects food and yard waist and composts it. I've already put out an inquiry to see if I can purchase the compost and asked what the pricing structure is - still waiting for a response.
In the mean time, I've stumbled across Soil³, http://www.soil3.com/. Has anyone used this stuff? I wish they or someone similar was closer to me.

On to the cations - ken-n-nancy rightly caught themselves before they made a rookie soil person's mistake. The mistake would be chasing a Ca:Mg ratio in the face of a rather extreme situation. The cation situation shows that the Base Saturation for Calcium is 86% - far too high. If we try to balance the Magnesium to achieve the ratio, we will worsen the problem, and raise the pH even higher. The Magnesium raw number is high enough to avoid a deficiency and symptoms. On the other hand, the Potassium number is low enough to cause symptoms, and needs to be addressed.
Thanks for pointing this out. I was about ready to purchase large quantities of Epsom Salt and elemental sulfur. But I wasn't about to do anything before getting your input.

The end-result of the cation situation is a pH of 8.0. We don't want it higher, even if we can't lower it substantially.
Will elemental sulfur help me here?

In the anions, the Phosphorus is also quite deficient. When both the Phosphorus and Potassium are deficient, we use inexpensive balanced garden fertilizers to fix both while also adding the necessary Nitrogen. Locate and post the NPK of a balanced fertilizer like 10-10-10 or 19-19-19, and we'll get the app rates and frequency (likely monthly) for you.
1) Is it a waste of time and money to use TKO Phosphite as a source of P & K?
2) I did some leg-work yesterday. I can get this in large quantities:
Image

Joining the deficiency party are Iron and the micronutrients. The Iron will need to be supplied by foliar FAS applications for best color - read about it in the Articles area. Soil-applied Iron will not work for you.
This explains why the Ironite did nothing. I've used Bonide brand "Iron Sulfate" before at my old house, is that the same and/or sufficient? (The little green crystals I dissolve in HOT water and spray?) Or do I need to source something different?
Also, what's the dosage and frequency recommended?

Let me know if you'd like to attack the Boron (essentially unmeasurable and nonexistent), Copper and Zinc shortages this year.
Yep - lets get 'er done. I'd like to know what I need to do. I'll most likely do it.

You've got a lot of work in front of you, but the soil could produce a nice lawn with effort and time...
It's okay. My lawn is my hobby. I like learning and doing the work. I ESPECIALLY love kicking my True-Green neighbors butts!

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bernstem
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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by bernstem » June 26th, 2018, 9:05 am

Keep using the Milorganite. Milorganite is fine even in the face of needing organic matter. Raising organic matter and fertilizing are two different issues that can sometimes overlap. For example, many organic fertilizers will give a small bump to organic matter, but it really isn't enough to move the soil percentage. Similarly some organic sources will provide a small percentage of very slow release fertilizer. To significantly increase soil organic matter percentage, you need to think in hundreds or thousands of pounds per thousand square feet. You can see how a couple hundred pounds of Milorganite over the whole yard isn't going to do much.

You friends for organic matter are going to be leaves (if you can get enough), finished Compost, and Peat Moss. Leaves are free, but you need a lot to make much difference. Unless you live next to a forest, you won't be getting enough. Compost is the least expensive and does provide some very slow release fertilizer, but you should think of it as a soil amendment. You want finished compost (to avoid weeds) and you want to apply at 0.5-1 yards per thousand square feet. I'll warn you now it is a lot of work on a large lawn, so recruit friends or hire the job out. Lastly, you have Peat Moss. It is late stage organic matter and does not provide any significant nutrients, but it has the highest amount of organic matter by weight. Unfortunately, it is relatively expensive and somewhat hard to spread so you won't be adding yards per thousand square feet at once. If you do want to use peat moss, think of it more as multiple small applications per year while compost is one or two large applications per year. A search will pull up a few good threads on organic matter, compost and peat moss.

The short answer is that Phosphite is not a substitute for Phosphorus. Phosphite is used primarily to prevent lawn disease. Phosphorus is a fertilizer. Despite the similarity in name they are not the same. There is a longer answer, but it gets chemical and more complex.

I have tried sulfur in my lawn and found it to be a waste of time. Maybe I didn't give it enough time, but the lawn looks fine without it and you can't tell what areas have high pH (~7.8) and what areas have normal (~6.8) by looking.

FWIW, I agree with the soil gurus on the Mg and Ca. Tweaking them to try and get them into a better ratio should be low on your list of priorities. Other things (like P and K) will get you more return on invested time and money.

Hammbone81
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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by Hammbone81 » June 26th, 2018, 10:06 am

So it looks like large quantities of OM and 10-10-10 are what the doctor orders? I'd like to know your thoughts on application rates and frequency of each.

Am I wasting my time/money with Soil Conditioner on this soil?

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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by Riverpilot » June 26th, 2018, 12:34 pm

I'm not Andy, or the other great folks who are knowledgeable about lawns, but I would think putting down Bestlawn Kelp Help and Soil Conditioner is never a waste of time or money.

I'm sure you've found the article on it by now, or the numerous threads on it. I've noticed a big difference in my lawn after using it for just a year. I went heavy last year on it, once every two weeks. This year I'm only doing it once a month.

BTW, if I may ask, what part of eastern Iowa? If you don't mind answering. I'm here in the Quad Cities.

Hammbone81
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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by Hammbone81 » June 26th, 2018, 1:43 pm

First of all - thanks for the input. I was actually a member of BestLawn a while ago but became inactive due to a change in my job responsibilities. (Hence why I knew about and have been religiously using kelphelp and soil conditioner) I've since changed jobs and bought a new house and now have time to get back into the hobby that I love called my lawn.

Riverpilot wrote:
June 26th, 2018, 12:34 pm
BTW, if I may ask, what part of eastern Iowa? If you don't mind answering. I'm here in the Quad Cities.
I live in Solon. I actually commute to the Quad Cities once a week for my job.

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bernstem
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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by bernstem » June 26th, 2018, 9:30 pm

Organic matter can be applied as budget and time allows. If you go crazy, though, you will need to limit applications to avoid smothering the turf.

I'll leave application rates and timing of P and K to the soil gurus.

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andy10917
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Re: Hammbone81 Soil Test 20180619

Post by andy10917 » June 26th, 2018, 11:08 pm

You were about to make a series of bad, but very common, errors.

Elemental Sulfur will do nothing unless you are tilling in large quantities, live in Southern Florida or Southern Texas, and get very lucky. And tilling is a terrible idea just to start with.

I have never specifically studied the chemistry, but many university and lawn experts say the Phosphites are NOT a viable source of Phosphorus, for empirical reasons.

10-10-10 goes down at 10 lbs/K monthly until September - then you read about the Fall Nitrogen Regimen.

About the "should I stop Milorganite now" and "Soil3" question(s): you're missing the point of the entire statement. It's not that there is anything wrong with Milorganite (there isn't - it's great!), but that the solution isn't going to come in a bag. You need mammoth amounts, and asking about stuff in bags for OM is WASTING YOUR TIME. Milorganite is a solution for Nitrogen and Iron, not for OM -- say that to yourself every day.

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