KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Learn how improving your soil can lead to a better looking lawn
KnickLeDime
Posts: 134
Joined: October 24th, 2018, 2:59 pm
Location: Capital Region NY
Grass Type: 1/3 Kentucky Blue, 1/3 Fescue and 1/3 Perennial Rye
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Novice

KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by KnickLeDime » April 10th, 2019, 9:40 am

My results are in...for an indepth discussion on my situation, lawn history and how we got here please see my thread in the renovation section (linked here) under viewtopic.php?f=13&t=24624

- Sampled at 4" results by Logan Labs
- Lawn size is 31000-32000sqf
- Grass type 1/3 Kentucky Blue, 1/3 Fescue and 1/3 Perennial Rye - what's left of it, 12000sqf are probably completely destoryed
- 35+ sprinkler heads
- LOOKING FOR BEST results...money and effort don't matter, willing to work hard to fix my mess

Now for the lab work...

Image

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andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by andy10917 » April 13th, 2019, 10:54 am

OK - I'm curious and want to do this right...

How did the 12000 sq ft area get to be destroyed?
Do you plan to renovate the 12000 sq ft in the next year, just maintain and slowly improve, or other plan?

KnickLeDime
Posts: 134
Joined: October 24th, 2018, 2:59 pm
Location: Capital Region NY
Grass Type: 1/3 Kentucky Blue, 1/3 Fescue and 1/3 Perennial Rye
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Novice

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by KnickLeDime » April 13th, 2019, 11:47 am

Andy... See my other long thread in the lawn renovation section. I linked it here as well but by grubs and/or over watering etc. Not 100% sure but as the lawn is greening up I see roughly 1/3 not coming up.

My plan is to get on a solid action plan (as discussed in the other long thread) and in mid-August to renovate the dead parts and maintain and improve everything else.

Consodering doing slit seeding in August to ensure maximum seed to soil contact but still researching the best way to move forward as it's a lot of sqf.

KnickLeDime
Posts: 134
Joined: October 24th, 2018, 2:59 pm
Location: Capital Region NY
Grass Type: 1/3 Kentucky Blue, 1/3 Fescue and 1/3 Perennial Rye
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Novice

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by KnickLeDime » April 13th, 2019, 11:50 am

Here is a picture from second story window.

Image

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andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by andy10917 » April 13th, 2019, 10:19 pm

That's a moderately sandy soil, with a very poor OM% level. It also has a very-high pH due to high Calcium levels, which is unusual in the Albany area. Have you been applying Lime every year without checking the existing levels?

Do whatever you can to add OM from leaves/compost/peat moss, at whatever rate the budget will handle.

A balanced fertilizer like 10-10-10 or 19-19-19 is a good place to start. Get one and post the NPK for app rates. It will likely be a monthly rate.

The Iron amount is high, but at your pH it's unavailable. Milorganite applied monthly would get available Iron to the grass, or FAS treatments on a 3-week cycle (ugh!).

In the micro's, Boron is nonexistent and Copper and Zinc are low. These should be fixed before a renovation effort - are they in the 2019 work?


KnickLeDime
Posts: 134
Joined: October 24th, 2018, 2:59 pm
Location: Capital Region NY
Grass Type: 1/3 Kentucky Blue, 1/3 Fescue and 1/3 Perennial Rye
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Novice

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by KnickLeDime » April 13th, 2019, 10:33 pm

Andy, this is only my second summer, this is a new house with builder bringing in fill. I've only applied one round of Scotts treatments, the blue, yellow and brown bags so whatever levels are in here were probably here for the most part or brought in.

I'd like to do as much as possible before August renovation of the dead parts of the lawn. Where do I get Boron, Copper and Zinc? What's a good source?

Keep in mind, I'm a complete novice so when you say things like FAS treatment I have no clue what that means. But I'm willing to learn and all ears.

KnickLeDime
Posts: 134
Joined: October 24th, 2018, 2:59 pm
Location: Capital Region NY
Grass Type: 1/3 Kentucky Blue, 1/3 Fescue and 1/3 Perennial Rye
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Novice

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by KnickLeDime » April 13th, 2019, 11:52 pm

One additional question...based on my reading Milogranite can get the iron into the grass but is there a way to lower the PH of the soil to make what is already there more available to the grass?

bob0755
Posts: 32
Joined: April 5th, 2018, 4:51 pm
Location: West Michigan
Grass Type: Kentucky Bluegrass
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Experienced

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by bob0755 » April 14th, 2019, 6:51 am

KnickLeDime wrote:
April 13th, 2019, 10:33 pm
Andy, this is only my second summer, this is a new house with builder bringing in fill. I've only applied one round of Scotts treatments, the blue, yellow and brown bags so whatever levels are in here were probably here for the most part or brought in.

I'd like to do as much as possible before August renovation of the dead parts of the lawn. Where do I get Boron, Copper and Zinc? What's a good source?

Keep in mind, I'm a complete novice so when you say things like FAS treatment I have no clue what that means. But I'm willing to learn and all ears.
https://aroundtheyard.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=117

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andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by andy10917 » April 14th, 2019, 7:20 am

One additional question...based on my reading Milogranite can get the iron into the grass but is there a way to lower the PH of the soil to make what is already there more available to the grass?
No, not really. The addition of large amounts of OM repeatedly may cause the pH to drift toward neutral, but it isn't reliable. Surface-applied Sulfur does not work. The use of Ammonium Sulfate fertilizers over a long period of time may work a bit, but the effect ends when you stop using them.

KnickLeDime
Posts: 134
Joined: October 24th, 2018, 2:59 pm
Location: Capital Region NY
Grass Type: 1/3 Kentucky Blue, 1/3 Fescue and 1/3 Perennial Rye
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Novice

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by KnickLeDime » April 14th, 2019, 12:19 pm

bob0755 wrote:
April 14th, 2019, 6:51 am
KnickLeDime wrote:
April 13th, 2019, 10:33 pm
Andy, this is only my second summer, this is a new house with builder bringing in fill. I've only applied one round of Scotts treatments, the blue, yellow and brown bags so whatever levels are in here were probably here for the most part or brought in.

I'd like to do as much as possible before August renovation of the dead parts of the lawn. Where do I get Boron, Copper and Zinc? What's a good source?

Keep in mind, I'm a complete novice so when you say things like FAS treatment I have no clue what that means. But I'm willing to learn and all ears.
https://aroundtheyard.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=117
Thank you for the link...

KnickLeDime
Posts: 134
Joined: October 24th, 2018, 2:59 pm
Location: Capital Region NY
Grass Type: 1/3 Kentucky Blue, 1/3 Fescue and 1/3 Perennial Rye
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Novice

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by KnickLeDime » April 14th, 2019, 5:18 pm

I'm putting Pre-M down tomorrow...is there any timing conflict with putting Pre-M, fertilizer or milogranite down? Or can they all go relatively closely as I procure the products?

KnickLeDime
Posts: 134
Joined: October 24th, 2018, 2:59 pm
Location: Capital Region NY
Grass Type: 1/3 Kentucky Blue, 1/3 Fescue and 1/3 Perennial Rye
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Novice

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by KnickLeDime » April 16th, 2019, 12:54 pm

andy10917 wrote:
April 13th, 2019, 10:19 pm


In the micro's, Boron is nonexistent and Copper and Zinc are low. These should be fixed before a renovation effort - are they in the 2019 work?
Andy, I've been reading the Micro-nutrients Application Guide and doing other searches it appears I can correct the Boron levels with 20 mule...can you clarify the application rate? I'll use with Milo as the vehicle.

Still trying to figure out how to correct Copper and Zinc, I'll keep reading. If you can, please clarify the rates of each.

KnickLeDime
Posts: 134
Joined: October 24th, 2018, 2:59 pm
Location: Capital Region NY
Grass Type: 1/3 Kentucky Blue, 1/3 Fescue and 1/3 Perennial Rye
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Novice

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by KnickLeDime » April 16th, 2019, 1:05 pm

Ok, I'm a busy bee today but I was able to locate on Amazon both Zin Sulfate and Copper Sulfate...Can all this stuff, Boron, Zinc and Sulfate ride on the same/single application of Milo?

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andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by andy10917 » April 16th, 2019, 6:42 pm

Yes, you can apply them all together.

The application rate is 3 tablespoons/K EACH for all micro's, every 60 days. Boron is Twenty Mule Team laundry soap from the grocery. Copper Sulfate and Zinc Sulfate can be found on Amazon or EBAY.

KnickLeDime
Posts: 134
Joined: October 24th, 2018, 2:59 pm
Location: Capital Region NY
Grass Type: 1/3 Kentucky Blue, 1/3 Fescue and 1/3 Perennial Rye
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Novice

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by KnickLeDime » April 17th, 2019, 11:52 am

Any going to go with this 19-19-19...can you clarify application rate?


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andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by andy10917 » April 18th, 2019, 7:03 am

The application rate for 19-19-19 is 5 lbs/K, monthly during the growing season.

KnickLeDime
Posts: 134
Joined: October 24th, 2018, 2:59 pm
Location: Capital Region NY
Grass Type: 1/3 Kentucky Blue, 1/3 Fescue and 1/3 Perennial Rye
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Novice

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by KnickLeDime » April 21st, 2019, 7:55 pm

andy10917 wrote:
April 16th, 2019, 6:42 pm
Yes, you can apply them all together.

The application rate is 3 tablespoons/K EACH for all micro's, every 60 days. Boron is Twenty Mule Team laundry soap from the grocery. Copper Sulfate and Zinc Sulfate can be found on Amazon or EBAY.
Andy, can I mix all three Borox, Copper and Zinc Sulfates in one of these pump action sprayer things at the same time? It's about 80 tablespoons of each. And then spray the Milo or will mixing all three cause some form of reaction?

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andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by andy10917 » April 21st, 2019, 9:02 pm

No. Foliar applications are MUCH smaller (and more frequent), and I have never recommended or created rates for foliar treatments. Foliar treats the grass plants and ignores the soil. This is a soils forum, so treatments are for soil applications.

KnickLeDime
Posts: 134
Joined: October 24th, 2018, 2:59 pm
Location: Capital Region NY
Grass Type: 1/3 Kentucky Blue, 1/3 Fescue and 1/3 Perennial Rye
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Novice

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by KnickLeDime » April 21st, 2019, 11:30 pm

andy10917 wrote:
April 21st, 2019, 9:02 pm
No. Foliar applications are MUCH smaller (and more frequent), and I have never recommended or created rates for foliar treatments. Foliar treats the grass plants and ignores the soil. This is a soils forum, so treatments are for soil applications.
Andy, I'm sorry...my bad I completely misread the micro-nutrient application guide...it says to do

The best way to mix the substances (Milorganite "vehicle" and one of more micronutrients) is to pour a bag of Milorganite into a wheelbarrow. Sprinkle half of the micronutrients (reserve the rest for a few minutes) over the surface of the Milorganite and then "mist" them with a handheld spray bottle very lightly. This causes them to stick to the Milorganite. Milorganite smells terrible if you get it really wet, so don't use any more misting than necessary to get a touch of stickiness. Mix with a large shovel for 5 minutes (all the way to the bottom), and then repeat the mixing process with the half of the micronutrient(s) that you reserved.


...I read it accidentally as you have to dilute it in water and then spray the milo. Yikes...bad miss on my part. This makes far more sense and quite frankly much easier....Thanks again

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andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: KnickLeDime Soil Test 2019

Post by andy10917 » April 21st, 2019, 11:36 pm

No problem! I try hard not to write about things that I haven't tested personally, and I try to be conservative so that even novices would have an easy way to use techniques without much risk. It's tough to screw up the documented technique - I don't think there's been a failure in roughly a decade of doing this. BTW - you'll definitely know if you mist too much - it's an error that comes with its own announcement system :shock:

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