Does Mir-A-Cal work?

[andy10917]

I have always been a pretty big believer in maintaining a pretty high level of Magnesium in the soil of my lawns - after all, my logic goes, Magnesium is to Chlorophyll what Iron is to the blood of animals. This winter, however, I located a fair amount of research that seems to indicate that a good number of scientists are looking into the balance of calcium-to-magnesium as it relates to proper plant growth. It seems that especially in the East (where soils tend to be quite acidic) people are using Lime to "sweeten" the soil - but the Lime tends to be Dolomitic Lime, which has a much higher percentage of Magnesium. In the book "Weeds and Why They Grow" the author claims that 90% of weeds appear as a result of there being an incorrect ratio of calcium to magnesium. They also claim that too much Magnesium leads to compaction. I don't know if those claims are really true, but it piqued my interest enough to continue my research.

I found claims that Calcitic Lime is much better, but I didn't see much in the way of anecdotal stories of success/failure from real lawn people, despite the fact that Calcitic Lime has been available (and actively promoted) for a while. Product names that I have been able to identify are Mir-A-Cal from Jonathan Green and Calcitic Lime from Encap. Supposedly these products are 1 lb instead of 10 lbs of "standard lime", which (if they actually work) would make my back very happy to not carry tons and tons of lime for my acre lawn. As well, there are claims that it integrates much faster into the soil.

Anyone have experience with these products in their lawn soil, or more information about this calcium/magnesium ratio thing?

[GaryCinChicago]

Anyone have experience with these products in their lawn soil, or more information about this calcium/magnesium ratio thing?

Andy:

Funny, I too spent winter researching these same things, LOL! Could I bother you to take a peek at this thread here http://aroundtheyard.com/northern/hello-all-t192.html concerning calcium/magnesium and chlorosis when you get a chance, for my little buddy in CT.?

[kingofgreen]

I`m the little buddy!! Any input would be great.

[andy10917]

KOG -- I wrote a short novel about your topic.

[Dchall_San_Antonio]

In the book "Weeds and Why They Grow" the author claims that 90% of weeds appear as a result of there being an incorrect ratio of calcium to magnesium.

I don't see how someone could make that statement. What is a weed? A weed is any plant that you don't want in that location. So fescue and Kentucky bluegrass are weeds to me. Is the author saying that by my declaring them to be weeds that they will thrive in my yard if I could knock out the balance of calcium to magnesium? What is wrong with that analysis?

They also claim that too much Magnesium leads to compaction.

If he defines compaction the way I do, it means the air has been completely removed from between all the mineral particles in the soil. The only way I know of that this can happen is by adding enough water to turn the soil into a slurry and stirring the air out. Livestock do this at the edge of ponds (tanks in Texas). By walking into the mud their feet sink in and push the air out. Ranchers call it pugging the soil and do everything to avoid it during a long, hard rain. Another way to pug the soil is to drive over it when it is wet. When the soil oozes up around the tires, the air is being squeezed out. The more common definition of compaction is what happens when the soil is allowed to dry out and the underlying microbes allowed to die. Neither definition has anything to do with magnesium. I suppose it is possible the microbes would die more quickly with repeated applications of the magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts). Too much salt of any kind is seldom beneficial to the soil biology.

What else does that book say about the soil?

[andy10917]

The book makes a pretty convincing case that weeds (especially deep-rooted ones) play a very important part in a "line of succession" that moves nutrients from subsoil to the surface and topsoil. Some plants ("weeds") can succeed in a soil that is (for example) Calcium-poor. They get Calcium from deep down, grow and then die, leaving the Calcium at the top of the soil. In time, more complex plants ("other weeds") that do well in a soil that is soil that has more Calcium out-compete the ones that lived in the Calcium-poor environment. This goes on-and-on until the topsoil is fully matured.

Interestingly, he also claims that the soil chemistry and the soil biology are incredibly interwoven as things move up the ladder, and that immature soils are bacteria-based (our "beneficial microbes") and that mature soils like an old-growth forest are fungi-based. When soil is disturbed, the fungi are replaced by bacteria and the cycle starts all over again.

We humans, not wanting to wait the 1000 years for the process to finish (imagine that!) go and dump things like Lime on the soil, but guess what? The Lime that can be sold most cheaply contains too much Magnesium. Whoomp! Suddenly the plants that do well in an unbalanced Calcium/Magnesium situation do the best. News flash - that's not grass. The members of the Dandelion, mullen and nightshade families do best in that environment. So we kill them with chemicals, which kill the microbes in the soil, which sets the soil back even farther in its progress.

And then we complain.

PS: I'm going to start a different thread on Calcium vs. Magnesium and "compacting" - that's a story in itself. I checked his chemistry (I was originally headed for a degree in organic chemistry) and it seems right.

[andy10917]

By the way, David - I think that my wife agrees with your definition of a weed. She says that the difference between a weed and a perennial is $8.99

[bpgreen]

I heard that the way to tell whether something is a weed or a wanted plant is to try to pull it out of the ground by the root. If it comes up easily, it wasn't a weed.

[Dchall_San_Antonio]

I used to live a few miles beyond normal civilization east of Dayton. It was a new development that stalled after part 1 was built. The area they had graded for the next section had turned into a field of Queen Ann's Lace. I had never seen it before and thought it was pretty cool plant. Once I knew what it was I saw it in gardens everywhere, and found you could buy the seed in nurseries. Later I found out it was also classified as a weed.

Kukuya grass is both a weed and a miracle plant in California. They actually had one state department planting it as fast as they could and another department killing it as fast as they could.

[bpgreen]

You'll see descendents of Queen Anne's lace in gardens everywhere. It's also known as wild carrot and the carrots we now grow and eat share it as a common ancestor (as do parsley, fennel, dill and cumin).

[andy10917]

Kukuya grass is both a weed and a miracle plant in California. They actually had one state department planting it as fast as they could and another department killing it as fast as they could.

Is that for real? LOLOL

[Dchall_San_Antonio]

Yes that is for real. At least it was for real when I lived there in the 80s. The highway department in charge of keeping mud off the highways planted it to stop erosion on slopes. Then the highway department in charge of keeping grass off the highways came by and killed it. The stuff is so tenacious that it will spread like lava out onto active highways.

[MorpheusPA]

Now there's an interesting thought. Magnesium, like calcium, is group II, so has a +2 charge (oh, you're a chemist, you know this crud). In ionic form. I always assumed they were about the same binding capacity. Whoops. Mea culpa.

'Round here, dolomitic limestone country, it's about all you can get. Yes, I could track down just calcite, but that would be difficult. For years I've just used smaller amounts of dolomitic limestone (ranging from 10 to 30 pounds per thousand per year) to enhance the Ca and Mg in the grass and gardens. I also use Sul-Po-Mag because I tend to be short on K. On the up side, Milorganite contains a good amount of Ca, as does most of the organics I drop.

I have no more--and in fact fewer--compaction issues than my neighbors and parents. I can drive a 12" screwdriver in to the hilt with minimal effort. Sneaking over onto the neighbors' lawns, I'm lucky to get 2" before it sticks. My parents, now following the organics, are up to about 4".

I also don't get a lot of "weeds," which I define as anything I don't want in that particular location. I tend to attribute a lot of that to organic methods. The worst weed is actually the grass as it invades the gardens.

[MorpheusPA]

Oops, I forgot lines of succession. Dad knows a lot about that--he used to be a lumberman. Most of the deeper rooted stuff is trying to turn your nice lawn into grassland, then shrubby, then first-growth forest, second-growth forest, and so on. Assuming your climate cooperates, of course, which around here it usually does (except during ice ages and whatnot).

I have a nice little tulip tree...a first-growth forest native here. Normally it'd eventually be supplanted by oak trees once the tulip trees process the soil deep enough for oaks to grow. I grew up in a home set in an oak grove and the soil went down several feet. Here, with disturbed soil that hasn't been forest since the Woodland Age, I have about a foot. I'm working on it.

[andy10917]

Morpheus:

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments, but wanted to continue on the calcium/magnesium thing. (Warning to casual readers: this is getting deeper - you may want to skip this post!).

Lots of people think "lime is lime", and don't know that there is a difference in dolomitic and calcitic lime products. They can wind up with high levels of magnesium in their soil. The following is an excerpt from a Calcium Products article:

"Calcium is the element that causes the soil particles to move apart for aeration and drainage. Magnesium makes the particles stick together. One soil consultant has determined that is some soils the excess magnesium is held as trimagnesium ortho phosphate, Mg3(PO4)2-22H2O. Notice that the last part of the formula is twenty-two molecules of water. Is it any wonder that soils high in magnesium tend to dry and crack when water is tied up in a compound instead of available to plants? Note two that phosphate is tied to the magnesium."

Tieing up water molecules in crystalline salts and binding phosphates in the soil at the same time doesn't seem like a direction that we want to go, assuming that the soil consultant is correct. None of us wants to wait 1000 years for plants and weeds to bring the proper level of each element to the surface, but it seems to me that striving to mimic their end-resulting levels is a good practice (one man's opinion).

[MorpheusPA]

Morpheus:

Tieing up water molecules in crystalline salts and binding phosphates in the soil at the same time doesn't seem like a direction that we want to go, assuming that the soil consultant is correct. None of us wants to wait 1000 years for plants and weeds to bring the proper level of each element to the surface, but it seems to me that striving to mimic their end-resulting levels is a good practice (one man's opinion).

Not-So-Ninja-Edit: Typing done got lost.

I'm wondering if that tends to happen on limestone flats, or at least high-pH areas with severe magnesium overload. The data I can find says it's soluble in acetic acid and mineral acids, which would tend to lessen the amounts in anything like my soil (acidic silty clay). Certainly I have no issues with superdeflocculation, and my lawn tends to absorb water much better than the neighbors', wet or dry.

And yep, I have no plans to wait a thousand years...fortunately the lawn doesn't require forest-deep soil. I speed things up by encouraging worms and beetles, who then do the job (at jig speed) for me--I just have to keep their numbers at extremely high levels!

[JoeZodiac]

Instead of using any kind of lime, I have been using a coral calcium product to add Ca to my soil. I have researched the use of Ca in "Weeds and Why They Grow" to help control the creeping charlie problem I have in my yard.

From "Weeds and Why They Grow" by Jay L. McCaman

"The purpose of weeds is to correct soil problems. The common
dandelion, "Taraxacum officinale", seems to thrive on bringing calcium
back to the soil surface to become available as the plant decays.
Farmers have told this author that they have followed the university
recommendations of 700 to 800 pounds per acre of potash on alfalfa
fields hoping for big yields. The next year, the dandelions came into
the field in very large numbers. Some farmers have even complained that
by the third year their alfalfa fields are done and the dandelions have
taken over. The potash has suppressed the calcium levels in the soil.
One farmer, after having the many dandelions come into his alfalfa,
applied three gallons of liquid calcium per acre and observed a very
definite reduction in the number of dandelions in that field. The
dandelion root goes to a depth of three feet. This gives it the ability
to bring up calcium from this depth. When the plant dies and decays, the
calcium is released into the soil to help another crop. The carbon and
other minerals are also released to improve soil organic matter and
mineral levels. "

The book indicates that the Ca level is probably low and very low on P205 (Phosphorus oxide).

Besides the Coral Calcium, I also use Schafer organic fish that contains 3.49% P205. So the combination of
these two items should help me control my Creeping Charlie over the next year or so.

Of course, these things take time unlike using synthetic chemical herbicides.

In addition, I found some soft rock phosphate with NPK of 0-22-00 for like $14.37
for 50 lbs:
http://gardeniq.com/store/product/Soft- ... 87,94.aspx

Surprisingly, of all phosphorus in existence on Earth, less than 0.01%
becomes available for plant use because of improper levels of soil pH.

[Dchall_San_Antonio]

The book indicates that the Ca level is probably low and very low on P205 (Phosphorus oxide).

I don't have anything constructive to add other than to say with the cool tools we have here it is easy to write P2O5 as P₂O₅

Yay us!

[MorpheusPA]

I wanna try!

Charlie was a chemist,
But Charlie is no more,
What Charlie thought was H₂O,
Was H₂SO₄.

Kewl.