EscondidoGardener's Soil Test - Long/Mini Rant

Learn how improving your soil can lead to a better looking lawn
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escondidogardener2
Posts: 29
Joined: July 30th, 2019, 4:23 pm
Location: Escondido California
Grass Type: Bermuda
Lawn Size: 1000-3000
Level: Some Experience

EscondidoGardener's Soil Test - Long/Mini Rant

Post by escondidogardener2 » July 30th, 2019, 5:26 pm

Hello -

Very excited to get some help interpreting my soil test from April of this year. I have posted at at least 3 different boards but can't find anyone who can help me understand the results.

Not to ramble but I want to provide as much information as I can....

Location: Escondido CA - East of the 15hwy - Zone 9a
Size- 2500 sqft
Type - Bermuda

History:
I bought the house Sept 2017 and was told that the St Augustine lawn had not been irrigated in years. I replaced old sprinklers with Hunter MP Rotors, core aerated and overseeded with annual rye in November. Fantastic results with the rye all winter long, my lawn has never look that green and dense.

Spring of 2018 I started fertlizing with Clarus Screaming green at a rate of 5lbs every 6 weeks from May through November. Watering was 3 times a week at 45 minutes, lawn greened up nicely but the grass never filled in 60%-70% coverage all summer long. Cut weekly at a hight of 3.5 inches.

Overseeded in November with the original bag of annual rye and it took a lot longer for the rye to germinate and the lawn was not nearly as thick.

Spring of 2019, I core aerate again and was told the lawn is not St. Augustine but bermuda.....argghh....Change mowing height to 2 inches and watering time 2.5 hours (1 inch) and infrequently. April 2019 I send off for the logan labs test, I can't read it and decide to add 50lbs of Alfalfa pellets down and moisture manager right after core aeration was finished. May/June the bermuda greens up slowly, not filling in really at all and I get really frustrated. I buy and throw down a 15lb bag of vigoro bermuda seed in mid June.

By July 1st the lawn is 80% green but I don't see much results from the grass seed or the new watering/cut length in thickening the turf. I spend a few hours on youtube and reddit and hear about milorganite and its effects on bermuda. I run out to home depot and buy/throw down 3 full bags on the lawn. That was Sunday, at this point the lawn is quite green but still has 20%-25% more to go to thicken.

Typing this out makes it clear to me that I am running around spending 1000's of dollars chasing a result that I can seem to find. My wife thinks I am absolutely crazy!! I forgot to mention that I sprayed 2 bottles of baby shampoo in the spring as well, you should have seen the look on her face...


Rant over and please help me.. lol

Image


Here are some photos of the grass


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Image

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andy10917
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Re: EscondidoGardener's Soil Test - Long/Mini Rant

Post by andy10917 » July 30th, 2019, 9:55 pm

Make sure to post a Link to this thread in the Soil Test Interpretation Queue thread, so you don't get lost in other thread activity.

Also, fix the "Escondido W of 15" location in your profile to indicate where you live - I doubt many members in Florida or Mississippi have a clue about where Escondido is. Adding "CA" will help - if you do it in a posting alone it will be quickly lost.

I took a quick look at your soil test results, and you've got a bit of a mess. We'll spend time working with you, but before we do, we need to know that you'll stop the "bouncing all over the place" and commit to a plan that will take time - like at least a year. Are you in, or is this just the flavor-of-the-week?

escondidogardener2
Posts: 29
Joined: July 30th, 2019, 4:23 pm
Location: Escondido California
Grass Type: Bermuda
Lawn Size: 1000-3000
Level: Some Experience

Re: EscondidoGardener's Soil Test - Long/Mini Rant

Post by escondidogardener2 » July 31st, 2019, 10:57 am

andy10917 wrote:
July 30th, 2019, 9:55 pm
Make sure to post a Link to this thread in the Soil Test Interpretation Queue thread, so you don't get lost in other thread activity.

Also, fix the "Escondido W of 15" location in your profile to indicate where you live - I doubt many members in Florida or Mississippi have a clue about where Escondido is. Adding "CA" will help - if you do it in a posting alone it will be quickly lost.

I took a quick look at your soil test results, and you've got a bit of a mess. We'll spend time working with you, but before we do, we need to know that you'll stop the "bouncing all over the place" and commit to a plan that will take time - like at least a year. Are you in, or is this just the flavor-of-the-week?
Good Morning Andy -

Thanks for the locations tip, I have updated my profile and posted a link in the soil test queue (which is awaiting moderator approval).

If my post created the impression that I am not dedicated to a long term solution than I didn't do a good job explaining myself. What you see as "bouncing around" is my frustration in trying to repair/renovate my lawn, spending good money and not getting results. I am very interested in a long term program that produces a healthy lawn. I am not in a rush, I know these things take time and I am very motivated to be part of this community.

I appreciate any help you can provide.



Cheers,

Jayson

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andy10917
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Re: EscondidoGardener's Soil Test - Long/Mini Rant

Post by andy10917 » July 31st, 2019, 1:40 pm

OK - I wanted to make sure that a viable long-term plan was palatable to you, and that you weren't going to run off to buy the latest miracle-in-a-bag that you saw on YouTube or other sites -- there is no shortage of shills and hucksters accepting money to promote products from companies. I have been approached by vendors to do positive reviews of their products, and refuse to participate. There are no miracles-in-a-bag (or bottle).

At some point we'll want to separate the care of your Bermuda from the care of the soil that is the home of that grass - but not yet.

First of all, in the future specify that the soil test results be reported at the 4" level and not the 6" level - the 6" level is more appropriate for crops. But don't worry, I can do the conversions needed - it's just extra work and makes it more difficult to see trends from year-to-year.

You have a soil that is showing a TEC (the soil's ability to hold nutrients) of 7.95 -- that's just short of the desired Loam range of 8-12 or so. Not a crisis, but the OM% (organic matter) number is 1.74%, which is poor. Top-dressing with compost, peat moss or anything like shredded leaves (leaves are probably not as available in the San Diego area as other places) on a regular basis will go a long way to build better soil. Good grass grows in good soil., and good soil holds water and nutrients better.

Next we look at the cations. Your Calcium levels are a bit short, and the Magnesium is very high - that leads to a Ca:Mg ration of under 5:1, which can lead to a "tight" soil that is difficult to work or "hard". But Bermuda can generally handle that. Potassium is quite low, and we know how to fix that. But I strongly suspect that you've got a real issue with the Sodium. While Sodium is needed in small amounts, I express that it needs to be watched when it gets over 2% and when it gets over 3% it needs remediation. Yes, again Bermuda can handle Sodium but changes in soil chemistry occur when Sodium levels are higher than Potassium levels in the Base Saturations - plants including grasses get "confused" and start taking up Sodium instead of Potassium, which leads to higher stress on the grass and weaker growth. Not good.

The cations act together to build a pH of 7.0, which is OK but probably elevated by the Sodium.

Phosphorus levels are also low. When both Potassium and Phosphorus are low, we consider "balanced" fertilizers as the solution for remediation. Unlike some of the fertilizers you have been using, "balanced" fertilizers apply equal amounts of Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium - you can't do that with something like Screamin Green, as the 16-2-3 NPK will limit you to about 6 lbs/K when you max out the Nitrogen that can be added at once, but that will only deliver 12% of the Phosphorus and 18% of the Potassium that we'd like to remediate. And remember, the Sodium is still screwing around with the Potassium that can get taken up. We want to get that all fixed by getting a fertilizer that puts down equal amounts of N, P, and K. These fertilizers are often sold as "garden" or "all-purpose" fertilizers like 10-10-10 or 19-19-19.

That still leaves us with the Sodium problem though. We can fix that with the use of Gypsum. Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) does two things - it is very good at pushing Sodium out of the soil, and doesn't affect the pH. It also can push some of the Magnesium out too, which will make the soil easier to work with and give the roots an easier time to penetrate the soil well.

Iron is somewhat low.

So, what's the plan? Locate a balanced fertilizer and post the NPK for application rates and frequency. It will probably be monthly apps. Also, try to locate "fast-acting Gypsum". Apply at the high bag-rate every 60 days, but it's best if not applied at the same time as the fertilizer - maybe two weeks apart.

I'm going to skip the micronutrients until you get the soil and grass under control and growing well.

Now on to the Bermuda grass. Bermuda needs to be scalped each Spring to remove the brown grass and encourage robust green growth. Unless someone that has lots of experience overrides me, don't go doing it now - you'll have to hit it next Spring.

Questions/Comments for you:

(1) what the hell did you buy that costed "thousands of dollars" on 2500 square feet of lawn?

(2) how did you determine how much irrigation it takes to get 1" of water applied deep/infrequent?

(3) I hope your aware that standard/common Bermuda from seed is never going to be luscious as a hybrid Bermuda lawn, right?

(4) How did you water the Bermuda seed once you put it down on the soil?

TimmyG
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Re: EscondidoGardener's Soil Test - Long/Mini Rant

Post by TimmyG » July 31st, 2019, 2:01 pm

andy10917 wrote:
July 31st, 2019, 1:40 pm
Also, try to locate "fast-acting Gypsum".
Lowe's carries Sta-Green Rapid Gypsum. Probably your best option.


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andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
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Re: EscondidoGardener's Soil Test - Long/Mini Rant

Post by andy10917 » July 31st, 2019, 2:13 pm

That stuff is excellent - but I have no idea if it is carried nationally, and in the San Diego area. But that's at least a good example of what you're looking for...

escondidogardener2
Posts: 29
Joined: July 30th, 2019, 4:23 pm
Location: Escondido California
Grass Type: Bermuda
Lawn Size: 1000-3000
Level: Some Experience

Re: EscondidoGardener's Soil Test - Long/Mini Rant

Post by escondidogardener2 » July 31st, 2019, 3:48 pm

andy10917 wrote:
July 31st, 2019, 1:40 pm
OK - I wanted to make sure that a viable long-term plan was palatable to you, and that you weren't going to run off to buy the latest miracle-in-a-bag that you saw on YouTube or other sites -- there is no shortage of shills and hucksters accepting money to promote products from companies. I have been approached by vendors to do positive reviews of their products, and refuse to participate. There are no miracles-in-a-bag (or bottle).

At some point we'll want to separate the care of your Bermuda from the care of the soil that is the home of that grass - but not yet.

First of all, in the future specify that the soil test results be reported at the 4" level and not the 6" level - the 6" level is more appropriate for crops. But don't worry, I can do the conversions needed - it's just extra work and makes it more difficult to see trends from year-to-year.

You have a soil that is showing a TEC (the soil's ability to hold nutrients) of 7.95 -- that's just short of the desired Loam range of 8-12 or so. Not a crisis, but the OM% (organic matter) number is 1.74%, which is poor. Top-dressing with compost, peat moss or anything like shredded leaves (leaves are probably not as available in the San Diego area as other places) on a regular basis will go a long way to build better soil. Good grass grows in good soil., and good soil holds water and nutrients better.

Next we look at the cations. Your Calcium levels are a bit short, and the Magnesium is very high - that leads to a Ca:Mg ration of under 5:1, which can lead to a "tight" soil that is difficult to work or "hard". But Bermuda can generally handle that. Potassium is quite low, and we know how to fix that. But I strongly suspect that you've got a real issue with the Sodium. While Sodium is needed in small amounts, I express that it needs to be watched when it gets over 2% and when it gets over 3% it needs remediation. Yes, again Bermuda can handle Sodium but changes in soil chemistry occur when Sodium levels are higher than Potassium levels in the Base Saturations - plants including grasses get "confused" and start taking up Sodium instead of Potassium, which leads to higher stress on the grass and weaker growth. Not good.

The cations act together to build a pH of 7.0, which is OK but probably elevated by the Sodium.

Phosphorus levels are also low. When both Potassium and Phosphorus are low, we consider "balanced" fertilizers as the solution for remediation. Unlike some of the fertilizers you have been using, "balanced" fertilizers apply equal amounts of Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium - you can't do that with something like Screamin Green, as the 16-2-3 NPK will limit you to about 6 lbs/K when you max out the Nitrogen that can be added at once, but that will only deliver 12% of the Phosphorus and 18% of the Potassium that we'd like to remediate. And remember, the Sodium is still screwing around with the Potassium that can get taken up. We want to get that all fixed by getting a fertilizer that puts down equal amounts of N, P, and K. These fertilizers are often sold as "garden" or "all-purpose" fertilizers like 10-10-10 or 19-19-19.

That still leaves us with the Sodium problem though. We can fix that with the use of Gypsum. Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) does two things - it is very good at pushing Sodium out of the soil, and doesn't affect the pH. It also can push some of the Magnesium out too, which will make the soil easier to work with and give the roots an easier time to penetrate the soil well.

Iron is somewhat low.

So, what's the plan? Locate a balanced fertilizer and post the NPK for application rates and frequency. It will probably be monthly apps. Also, try to locate "fast-acting Gypsum". Apply at the high bag-rate every 60 days, but it's best if not applied at the same time as the fertilizer - maybe two weeks apart.

I'm going to skip the micronutrients until you get the soil and grass under control and growing well.

Now on to the Bermuda grass. Bermuda needs to be scalped each Spring to remove the brown grass and encourage robust green growth. Unless someone that has lots of experience overrides me, don't go doing it now - you'll have to hit it next Spring.

Questions/Comments for you:

(1) what the hell did you buy that costed "thousands of dollars" on 2500 square feet of lawn?

(2) how did you determine how much irrigation it takes to get 1" of water applied deep/infrequent?

(3) I hope your aware that standard/common Bermuda from seed is never going to be luscious as a hybrid Bermuda lawn, right?

(4) How did you water the Bermuda seed once you put it down on the soil?


Outstanding information, Andy - Thank-you.

In order:

I will retest in spring at 4 inches...do you think the logan lab test is preferable to something like soil savvy or they interchangeable tests?

When top dressing with compost - how much do I need and when should I apply it?

Balanced Fertilzer, I have some 15-15-15 that I am using for some Podocarpus along my fence line. How soon and how much should I apply?

Gypsum options I found at my local landscape supple are here (can you recommend one?) The fast acting Sta-Green Rapid Gypsum suggested my Timmy and Andy is prohibited at my local Lowes.......


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To your specific questions:

1) I spend approximately $100 a month spring/fall and nearly $180 a month from June - October on irrigation. Water is really expensive here. This cost is just to irrigated my front and back lawn. Total per year on irrigation water is in the neighborhood of $2500 in a normal year. Last year was really hot and it went past $3000, not including any amendments or fertilizer. My irrigation usage on a high month exceeds 15k gallons. This is in part, why I added the shampoo and the "moisture manager" product as I hoped to increase the water retention of my soil.

2) I went online and found information that hunter mp rotors irrigate at .4 inches per hour. I set my stations to 2.5 hours to achieve 1 inch total.

3) I did not know this until finding this forum. I figured it was all the same. I can't undo what I have already done but after a few hours searching/reading this forum I realize that the bermuda will fill itself in and I will not seed again.

4) I watered the seed daily for about 10 days. That was about 6 weeks ago, some of the seed has germinated at the edges of my lawn but the majority has not.

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andy10917
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Re: EscondidoGardener's Soil Test - Long/Mini Rant

Post by andy10917 » July 31st, 2019, 5:15 pm

do you think the logan lab test is preferable to something like soil savvy or they interchangeable tests?
They are not interchangeable, and because of that we only will interpret tests from Logan Labs right now. The differences are large: the Iron levels on the UMASS site that we used to interpret showed Iron within a range typically of 4-10 PPM - the Logan Labs typically shows it at the 100-200 ppm level. As volunteers, we can't learn the metrics and tests of hundreds of labs - so we focus on one good lab that supports the Albrecht method, and that's it. Anyone asking for interpretations from other labs is politely declined.
When top dressing with compost - how much do I need and when should I apply it?
I like to recommend 1/4" deep at a time - you'll have to figure out how much that is for 2500 sq ft of lawn. Repeat when it is gone from the oil surface.
I have some 15-15-15
That can be used at about 6.5 lbs/K, monthly.
Gypsum options I found at my local landscape supple are here (can you recommend one?) The fast acting Sta-Green Rapid Gypsum suggested my Timmy and Andy is prohibited at my local Lowes
Search for "Fast-Acting Gypsum" (especially if it says AST Technology). The powder is useless - it just makes a big cloud when you use a spreader. You'll use 5X more lbs/K if you use the pelletized Gypsum instead, and you'll only get to use it every 90 days instead, because it takes longer to get into the soil. Also, Pennington and Endcap make Fast-Acting Gypsum with AST, so those are also good choices (although more expensive).
I went online and found information that hunter mp rotors irrigate at .4 inches per hour. I set my stations to 2.5 hours to achieve 1 inch total.
Do the tuna can test to verify that estimation.
I watered the seed daily for about 10 days. That was about 6 weeks ago, some of the seed has germinated at the edges of my lawn but the majority has not.
Ummm, when seeding, you need to switch to shallow/frequent watering. That's probably why it didn't work well.

escondidogardener2
Posts: 29
Joined: July 30th, 2019, 4:23 pm
Location: Escondido California
Grass Type: Bermuda
Lawn Size: 1000-3000
Level: Some Experience

Re: EscondidoGardener's Soil Test - Long/Mini Rant

Post by escondidogardener2 » July 31st, 2019, 6:03 pm

10-4 Andy -

You are 100% the soil is rock hard in the yard.


My plan is as follows:

1) Apply High Bag rate of Encap Fast acting gypsum I found at Ace Hardware https://www.acehardware.com/departments ... RQQAvD_BwE. Reapply Gypsum every 60 days until soil is tested again in Mid-April 2020. A total of 8 applications.

2) Lay down 2 yards of compost over lawn to 1/4 inch depth and repeat when gone from soil surface (as budget allows). Can this be done too much?

3) Apply 15 15 15 monthly at 6.5lb/1k. Three days ago I put 3 bags of milorganite down on the lawn. How soon can I apply the 15 15 15 ? Repeat monthly until soil is tested mid April 2020.

4) Lay out 8 - 10 cat food cans before next irrigation. Check total water amount.

5) Do not reseed your lawn - Bermuda will heal itself


I just want to confirm with you that these treatments are on this schedule and that they do not stop until I get another Logan Labs test done in April.

I am really grateful for your help and am relieved to have a long term plan!

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andy10917
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Re: EscondidoGardener's Soil Test - Long/Mini Rant

Post by andy10917 » July 31st, 2019, 6:29 pm

Can this be done too much?
I know you're new to the site, but this will have all the members that know me rolling their eyes with "again?". Forget calendars, and use your eyes. If something looks like you should delay or accelerate, process it with the brain and ask on this forum if needed. We're here to support people like you - not answer a question and forget you.
Three days ago I put 3 bags of milorganite down on the lawn. How soon can I apply the 15 15 15 ?
That's well above the bag rate. I'd wait three weeks. Get the Gypsum going in the meantime.

Don't forget to schedule to scalp the lawn in the early Spring, as soon as it just begins to green up. Does it ever go fully dormant in the SD area?

BTW - if your spouse thinks you are nuts for giving the lawn so much attention and effort, you're gonna fit in just fine around here! All of our spouses think we're nuts...

escondidogardener2
Posts: 29
Joined: July 30th, 2019, 4:23 pm
Location: Escondido California
Grass Type: Bermuda
Lawn Size: 1000-3000
Level: Some Experience

Re: EscondidoGardener's Soil Test - Long/Mini Rant

Post by escondidogardener2 » August 1st, 2019, 1:55 pm

Got it -

I will start with the gyspum this weekend and move forward with the 15 15 15 fert in about 3 weeks. I read that OM can be raised slightly by mulching the clippings which I have never done.

I have a quote for $153 delivered for 3 yards of complete compost, I also have a free source of mushroom compost up the street so I will investigate that (not sure if I need to mix it with topsoil). I will schedule when it cools down in October.

I have a reminder set to scalp in the spring. I have never seen my Bermuda go dormant completely. I always overseed with annual rye. Based on our conversation and my amendment plan, no reason I can't overseed this winter right?


Speaking of wife, when I told her about this board and your feedback she said, "finally, someone who knows what they are talking about!"

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andy10917
Posts: 29739
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Level: Advanced

Re: EscondidoGardener's Soil Test - Long/Mini Rant

Post by andy10917 » August 2nd, 2019, 8:05 am

Be careful with the Mushroom Compost. It can contain a lot of salts that are "hot", and it can burn young seedlings. Free is good, but use it in small amounts but more frequently.

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