Soil conditions
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- Posts: 27
- Joined: February 14th, 2020, 7:54 am
- Location: Southeastern, Va.
- Grass Type: Tall Fescue
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Soil conditions
Andy, do you know anything about earthworks products??? Landscape supply near me suggested that I use earthworks replenish 3-4-3 to help build up my organic matter???
- andy10917
- Posts: 29741
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Soil conditions
Yeah, I'm sure that the landscape supply place would try to sell you Replenish. There is nothing wrong with the product, but you need to (1) get out a pencil and do math, and (2) remember the #1 rule of lawn care nutrients.
The #1 rule is to buy the ingredient and not the bag and marketing. Replenish 3-4-3 is 100% pure composted Chicken Sh!t, Good stuff. But what is your goal? is it to up the organic matter content? Sorry to say, you will never raise the OM% at measurable rates with anything that can be put down with a fertilizer spreader. Yes, the product has organic matter - but far, far less organic matter than compost, peat moss or the mulched free leaves of Autumn. This is not all to knock Replenish - the use of Milorganite, Bay State or any other natural/organic nutrient will not deliver the kinds of organic matter that you need to apply to move the needle measurably. Even with several applications of compost, peat moss and mulched leaves per year, a gain of 0.5% is good and 1.0% in a year is phenomenal. You want to boost your level from 3.3% to the 5% neighborhood. That's a multi-year effort.
Also, if you're expecting the Replenish 3-4-3 to be your fertilizer source of NPK also, do the math. Straight math says that a 3-4-3 product delivers 0.03 lbs/K of Nitrogen and Potassium, and 0.04 lbs/K of Phosphorus. That means to get 1 lb/K of Nitrogen per month, you'd need to apply 33 lbs/K of Replenish. Using your profile data, if you have 20,000 sq ft of lawn, you'd need 660 lbs of Replenish monthly - a little more than 13 50-lb bags. Now, straight math doesn't translate perfectly into the use of natural/organic fertilizers. But their numbers of 5 lbs/K on the bag, 2-4 X a year being equal to 0.50 lbs of Nitrogen don't work - that's 0.15 lbs/K of Nitrogen. Once again, there are no miracles in a bag. The application rate for Milorganite (6-4-0) to deliver a little over 0.75 lbs/K of Nitrogen is 12.8 lbs/K.
Look, you can make your own decisions about what is right for you - the program listed above is aggressive and aimed at getting a lawn hobbyist's lawn a kick in the butt. You can do less than what I've listed, but I find that members that don't see visible results for their efforts in Year 1 fade out and quit.
Look, I'm not trying to bash Replenish or other natural/organic fertilizers. I love them, but you have to understand that they are less nutrient-dense and while there is organic matter in the bag, you will NEVER boost the organic matter percentage materially at 5 lbs/K of Replenish 2-4X a year. The math is the math - look to compost, peat moss and mulched leaves if you ever want to get to a 5% OM level.
The #1 rule is to buy the ingredient and not the bag and marketing. Replenish 3-4-3 is 100% pure composted Chicken Sh!t, Good stuff. But what is your goal? is it to up the organic matter content? Sorry to say, you will never raise the OM% at measurable rates with anything that can be put down with a fertilizer spreader. Yes, the product has organic matter - but far, far less organic matter than compost, peat moss or the mulched free leaves of Autumn. This is not all to knock Replenish - the use of Milorganite, Bay State or any other natural/organic nutrient will not deliver the kinds of organic matter that you need to apply to move the needle measurably. Even with several applications of compost, peat moss and mulched leaves per year, a gain of 0.5% is good and 1.0% in a year is phenomenal. You want to boost your level from 3.3% to the 5% neighborhood. That's a multi-year effort.
Also, if you're expecting the Replenish 3-4-3 to be your fertilizer source of NPK also, do the math. Straight math says that a 3-4-3 product delivers 0.03 lbs/K of Nitrogen and Potassium, and 0.04 lbs/K of Phosphorus. That means to get 1 lb/K of Nitrogen per month, you'd need to apply 33 lbs/K of Replenish. Using your profile data, if you have 20,000 sq ft of lawn, you'd need 660 lbs of Replenish monthly - a little more than 13 50-lb bags. Now, straight math doesn't translate perfectly into the use of natural/organic fertilizers. But their numbers of 5 lbs/K on the bag, 2-4 X a year being equal to 0.50 lbs of Nitrogen don't work - that's 0.15 lbs/K of Nitrogen. Once again, there are no miracles in a bag. The application rate for Milorganite (6-4-0) to deliver a little over 0.75 lbs/K of Nitrogen is 12.8 lbs/K.
Look, you can make your own decisions about what is right for you - the program listed above is aggressive and aimed at getting a lawn hobbyist's lawn a kick in the butt. You can do less than what I've listed, but I find that members that don't see visible results for their efforts in Year 1 fade out and quit.
Look, I'm not trying to bash Replenish or other natural/organic fertilizers. I love them, but you have to understand that they are less nutrient-dense and while there is organic matter in the bag, you will NEVER boost the organic matter percentage materially at 5 lbs/K of Replenish 2-4X a year. The math is the math - look to compost, peat moss and mulched leaves if you ever want to get to a 5% OM level.
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- Posts: 27
- Joined: February 14th, 2020, 7:54 am
- Location: Southeastern, Va.
- Grass Type: Tall Fescue
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Soil conditions
Thanks Andy for your time and knowledge, trying to figure this lawn stuff out, thank you!!!
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- Posts: 27
- Joined: February 14th, 2020, 7:54 am
- Location: Southeastern, Va.
- Grass Type: Tall Fescue
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Soil conditions
Andy, I plan on putting down peat moss to raise my organic matter content, is there a right or wrong time to do this??? How much can I put down at a time??? Thanks
- andy10917
- Posts: 29741
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Soil conditions
It is best applied when no freezing weather is going to happen. Generally, I apply it 0.25" deep per application - that isn't going to be cheap for 20K of lawn. Do what you can afford to, when you can afford to. And start to learn how to get free stuff alternatives as you can find them. That's why I'm a huge fan of mulched leaves and homemade compost.
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- Posts: 2244
- Joined: May 15th, 2012, 6:04 pm
- Location: Dracut, MA
- Grass Type: Northern Mix
- Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
- Level: Experienced
Re: Soil conditions
Not that I recommend doing this, but...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAdOAF65Yuw
Definitely search the forums to see what has worked for people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAdOAF65Yuw
Definitely search the forums to see what has worked for people.
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- Posts: 27
- Joined: February 14th, 2020, 7:54 am
- Location: Southeastern, Va.
- Grass Type: Tall Fescue
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Soil conditions
Lol, Timmy!!!!
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- Posts: 27
- Joined: February 14th, 2020, 7:54 am
- Location: Southeastern, Va.
- Grass Type: Tall Fescue
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Soil conditions
Andy, can I mix 20 mule team borax with 0-0-50, normal fertilizer or Pete moss???
- andy10917
- Posts: 29741
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Soil conditions
You can do what ever you'd like to. The posted technique is tested and works reliably - I have no interest in offering opinions about stuff that I have not tested.
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- Posts: 27
- Joined: February 14th, 2020, 7:54 am
- Location: Southeastern, Va.
- Grass Type: Tall Fescue
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Soil conditions
Thanks Andy—- I don’t use milorganite was trying to figure out what else I could mix it with, thanks!!!
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- Posts: 2244
- Joined: May 15th, 2012, 6:04 pm
- Location: Dracut, MA
- Grass Type: Northern Mix
- Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
- Level: Experienced
Re: Soil conditions
It's not so much about mixing the borax into a carrier as it is about getting it to stick uniformly in minuscule quantities to the prills of the carrier. Milorganite and similar biosolids products work wonderfully as a carrier because of the uniformity and small size of the prills and, most importantly, its ability to take on a good amount of moisture via misting without clumping up and rendering spreading impossible. Plus, with the dark coloring of the Milorganite, you can see where the borax is going and have confidence that you've mixed it and gotten it to stick evenly throughout. I wouldn't want to use a light colored carrier, and I absolutely positively wouldn't try anything with urea or the like that will turn to mush quickly upon wetting. If you search, I believe you may find some support of using SOP as the carrier, but like Andy, I don't see any need to rock the boat on this one. You can buy just enough Milorganite for the borax application(s); you don't have to put down full applications of Milorganite.
See also:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=20285&p=287603#p287603
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=19312&p=265585#p265585
See also:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=20285&p=287603#p287603
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=19312&p=265585#p265585
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- Posts: 27
- Joined: February 14th, 2020, 7:54 am
- Location: Southeastern, Va.
- Grass Type: Tall Fescue
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Soil conditions
Thanks Timmy!!! Great idea on applying a small amount of milorganite with 20 mule team, awesome idea will make it happen, thank you.
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