AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Learn how improving your soil can lead to a better looking lawn
falcon
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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by falcon » April 11th, 2020, 7:14 am

Andy, last week I happened to be driving by a SiteOne, and they told me that 0-0-50 couldn't be sold to the public in Massachusetts. So maybe I got another dunce - but his comment, combined with your statement that SOP was "not easy to find" which now, according to your google search, maybe it only takes seconds to find, made me not bother checking with Valley Green, so I went to New Hampshire. I went to New Hampshire after calling the store that told they had 0-0-50.

So me, being brand new at this, listened to an employee at a store in Massachusetts - who I would think knew better than a novice like me - and I combined that statement with your statement that SOP was not easy to find - also thinking that you clearly knew better than me - and concluded it was probably not legal to buy in MA. MA bans everything. And then the NH store gave me the wrong information.

So me, a novice, listened to three more experienced people (SiteOne employee, grain store employee, and you) that all seem to have given me misinformation.

But my mistake for not checking with Valley Green myself. I will call them Monday. And by the way, I hope they do have the SOP, because my experience with them in the past shows that they have a few products listed on their website that they don't actually sell or have in stock.

I clearly annoyed you and sorry if I wasted your time - I truly appreciate the time you have dedicated to this site and to my questions.

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andy10917
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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » April 11th, 2020, 8:16 am

You didn't annoy me one bit. I just know that the Boston area has significantly more places that carry SOP and that members have posted a number of them. It was 5 minutes to dinnertime and I just knocked out a quick post. No annoyance at all.

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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by TimmyG » April 11th, 2020, 11:40 am

Yup, Valley Green in Wilmington should have 0-0-50. I've posted about it numerous times.

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ken-n-nancy
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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by ken-n-nancy » April 13th, 2020, 12:00 pm

falcon wrote:
April 11th, 2020, 7:14 am
Andy, last week I happened to be driving by a SiteOne, and they told me that 0-0-50 couldn't be sold to the public in Massachusetts. So maybe I got another dunce - but his comment, combined with your statement that SOP was "not easy to find" which now, according to your google search, maybe it only takes seconds to find, made me not bother checking with Valley Green, so I went to New Hampshire. I went to New Hampshire after calling the store that told [me] they had 0-0-50.

So me, being brand new at this, listened to an employee at a store in Massachusetts - who I would think knew better than a novice like me - and I combined that statement with your statement that SOP was not easy to find - also thinking that you clearly knew better than me - and concluded it was probably not legal to buy in MA. MA bans everything. And then the NH store gave me the wrong information.
I'm pretty sure that 0-0-50 (sulfate of potash) is not banned in Massachusetts, but as you mention, MA bans a lot of things and is adding new bans every month...

I'm curious (being from New Hampshire) which store you went to in NH that had said they had 0-0-50, but ended up not having it (I suspect they instead had 0-0-60).

In any case, if you get really desparate, I just bought my year's supply (3 bags of 50-pounds each) of sulfate of potash, 0-0-50, from Achille Agway in Milford, NH a couple weeks ago. It was $35.97 per bag. They've been carrying it at my request, and seem to sell about a pallet or so each year.

falcon
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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by falcon » April 13th, 2020, 1:43 pm

ken-n-nancy wrote:
April 13th, 2020, 12:00 pm
falcon wrote:
April 11th, 2020, 7:14 am
Andy, last week I happened to be driving by a SiteOne, and they told me that 0-0-50 couldn't be sold to the public in Massachusetts. So maybe I got another dunce - but his comment, combined with your statement that SOP was "not easy to find" which now, according to your google search, maybe it only takes seconds to find, made me not bother checking with Valley Green, so I went to New Hampshire. I went to New Hampshire after calling the store that told [me] they had 0-0-50.

So me, being brand new at this, listened to an employee at a store in Massachusetts - who I would think knew better than a novice like me - and I combined that statement with your statement that SOP was not easy to find - also thinking that you clearly knew better than me - and concluded it was probably not legal to buy in MA. MA bans everything. And then the NH store gave me the wrong information.
I'm pretty sure that 0-0-50 (sulfate of potash) is not banned in Massachusetts, but as you mention, MA bans a lot of things and is adding new bans every month...

I'm curious (being from New Hampshire) which store you went to in NH that had said they had 0-0-50, but ended up not having it (I suspect they instead had 0-0-60).

In any case, if you get really desparate, I just bought my year's supply (3 bags of 50-pounds each) of sulfate of potash, 0-0-50, from Achille Agway in Milford, NH a couple weeks ago. It was $35.97 per bag. They've been carrying it at my request, and seem to sell about a pallet or so each year.
Thank you. I just got back from picking up 0-0-50 at Valley Green, which was the same price you paid.

I don't want to "out" the store because they are great people and have a great store. I just think they made a mistake. The exact conversation, verbatim was:

Me: "Do you guys have potash? Sulfate of Potash, that is."
Them: "Yes."
Me: "0-0-50...you sure?"
Them: "Yeah. $16 bucks a bag."

Now, I had no idea how much 0-0-50 costs, so the price would have given me a clue if I did. And yes, it was MOP 0-0-61 (62?). Anyway, that store can order SOP, but they usually only order 1 pallet a year, and they didn't have it when I went.

Regardless, I have a supplier close by which is nice.


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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by falcon » April 22nd, 2020, 9:01 am

Andy, can I apply to SOP and Urea at the same time?

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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » April 22nd, 2020, 9:04 am

Yes, that's OK

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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by falcon » June 2nd, 2020, 9:27 am

Andy - I wanted to thank you again for all of your help. The lawn is looking much, much better than last year. I've got some patches of clover and some other non-desirable weed (which I have no idea what it is) to take care of, but the grass is noticeably greener and healthier than last year. Keeping it watered 1x a week helps too.

I've got a strip next to the road (no sidewalk) where nothing grows at all. Most suspect road salt, but none of the neighbors have anything close to the same issue. I was thinking of getting a separate soil test for that spot to see what the problem might be. If I get a test, is the standard test from Loagn Labs fine? And should I start a separate thread, or can I post results here? Thanks!

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andy10917
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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » June 2nd, 2020, 9:46 am

Glad to hear it's doing well !!

The LL standard test is fine. Start a new thread so that when I going looking for previous tests (next year!) I can find it.

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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by falcon » June 18th, 2020, 9:18 am

Andy, I did the first part of the weed control triangle ten days ago (in the front) and that has worked really well. Hitting the front this weekend with my next urea and SOP application and a second application of 2,4-D a few days after to get some stuff that survived the first application. Then I will do Triclopyr a couple weeks later if the weather cooperates.

Now that the front has started to improve dramatically, I'm wondering what you might suggest for the back and the field. You said Calcium in these two areas was a little low, and magnesium and potassium were very low, just like the front.

The only thing I did last year was a fall urea application, and they look much better than last year despite a lack of rain recently. In fact, the field looks amazing when you ignore the clover.

Should I be doing monthly urea applications in those two areas?

Do you do urea applications even if the grass is dormant? (it's not right now, just curious because I don't irrigate these areas)

I'm willing to apply lime, SOP, urea, and Epsom salt to these areas if necessary...they aren't too expensive.

Thanks again for all of your advice and time.

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andy10917
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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » June 18th, 2020, 11:11 am

OK - please add a link to this in the Soil Test Interpretation Queue, so that I remember to do this when I have time.

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andy10917
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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » June 20th, 2020, 8:01 am

I reviewed the Back and Field areas, and the regimens cam out to the same as the Front - just a bit more or less pronounced. That affects how LONG you'll be doing the regimen, but not the ingredients. Follow the same regimen as the Front.

For Urea, try to stay away from applications from July 1 - August 15. This is the period where you don't want the grass being forced to grow, if it feels dormancy is the correct path.

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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by falcon » June 21st, 2020, 8:15 am

Andy - thanks so much. We've had a LOT of heat and very little rain the last few weeks here, so everything that's not irrigated is going dormant already. I'll hold off until it starts growing again. In the meantime, the front will continue to get the regimen you recommended, which has been working really well. Thanks again.

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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by falcon » July 6th, 2020, 1:08 pm

Andy,

Following up here, I want to clarify something. Do you mean that you do not apply urea from July 1- Aug 15 regardless of whether the grass is growing? My non-irrigated portions (back and field) are already dormant, but the front, where I have been watering and doing this regimen is still growing rather rapidly.

If the answer is no urea anywhere, do you recommend some type of organic product during this time period? I've seen a few people doing cracked corn, for example. Thanks!

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andy10917
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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » July 6th, 2020, 1:27 pm

It's a balancing act, with no "absolute" answer. When you're on a remediation regimen, you have to balance between making progress on remediation and playing things safe in the Summer. Urea will force growth where you use it, and if you're not providing enough water to support the growth, that becomes stress - and stress can/will lead to disease.

So, are you ready to totally commit to following through with irrigation where you use Urea -- even if it is 95 - 100 degrees outside?

My personal regimen is to use Milorganite/Bay State at half-rate for July 1 - August 15. I use nothing else. Cracked corn, heat and water are a no-go for me during the period - baked wet corn stinks to hell. YMMV, and it's your call.

(Now, that all said, I can't seem to get my lawn out of Spring Flush mode - I don't know if that's a blessing or a curse)

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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by falcon » July 6th, 2020, 2:06 pm

Thanks, Andy. I have been watering an inch a week, and I will continue to do so for the front lawn, which is growing so fast it needs to be cut every 4-5 days. So it sounds like as long as I am watering, I can continue the monthly urea applications as you've recommended. Correct me if I am wrong.

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andy10917
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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » July 6th, 2020, 2:38 pm

Your call - I told you what the "official line" was, and what I personally do (not always the same thing). None of that involves Urea. It is your call on whether to go forward - nobody but you. You are informed of the possible risks, and able to make your own decision.

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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by falcon » July 16th, 2020, 7:41 am

Andy, apologies for all of the follow up questions. I just got home from 6 days in the hospital with a newborn, and my brain is fried.

Is the lime and epsom salt application ok to do in the non-dormant, irrigated front lawn this weekend? That would be the 90 day mark for me. I am continuing to water and apply urea and SOP in order to remediate the soil. As previously discussed, I've been made aware of the risks. So far I don't see any signs of disease or stress.

Second question - should a follow-up soil test be done this year or next spring?

Thanks again.

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andy10917
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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » July 16th, 2020, 8:06 am

Well, congratulations on the new baby!! Only another 18-20 years before you're brain returns to normal.

To your questions:

(1) Yes, it's OK.

(2) Next Spring is fine - we want to give the ingredients time to reach the sampling depth.

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Re: AndyV 2020 Soil Test

Post by falcon » July 20th, 2020, 7:26 am

Andy,

Is this the appropriate place to ask questions regarding soil conditioner, compost tea, and kelp help?

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