Ken2736 soil test

Learn how improving your soil can lead to a better looking lawn
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andy10917
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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by andy10917 » May 23rd, 2020, 11:05 am

If you're using Milorganite for the Iron content, it's questionable about whether it will work for Iron with the cations driving the pH to 8.4. You could try one bag and see what happens - otherwise the only currently solution is FAS, until we have results from the Humates experimentation.

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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by ken2736 » May 30th, 2020, 8:25 pm

Andy

You mentioned applying urea. Is the FAS better than applying urea? Can urea be applied at any time during the season?

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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by andy10917 » May 30th, 2020, 9:33 pm

You mentioned applying urea. Is the FAS better than applying urea? Can urea be applied at any time during the season?
That's an Apples vs Kumquats comparison. FAS is to get some good color because the Iron in the soil isn't available to the lawn at pH 8.4. Urea is a Nitrogen source - the "N" is the NPK rating on all bags of fertilizer. Iron from FAS is optional for color, Nitrogen is not optional.

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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by Oldschool » May 30th, 2020, 10:23 pm

Ken2736,

Fellow Montanan here with very similar soil, calcareous with 8+ph. Milorganite works wonders for greening of my lawn.

Lonnie

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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by Oldschool » May 30th, 2020, 10:23 pm

Ken2736,

Fellow Montanan here with very similar soil, calcareous with 8+ph. Milorganite works wonders for greening of my lawn.

Lonnie


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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by ken2736 » May 30th, 2020, 10:54 pm

Oldschool wrote:
May 30th, 2020, 10:23 pm
Ken2736,

Fellow Montanan here with very similar soil, calcareous with 8+ph. Milorganite works wonders for greening of my lawn.

Lonnie
Are you one of the ones trying the Andersons humic DG experiment?

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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by Oldschool » May 30th, 2020, 11:27 pm

I am...

ken2736
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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by ken2736 » May 31st, 2020, 9:10 am

Oldschool wrote:
May 30th, 2020, 11:27 pm
I am...
How is your testing going? Or is it too early to tell?

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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by andy10917 » May 31st, 2020, 9:22 am

There is a thread that I update every 1-2 weeks, but I've asked the participants not to directly publish any specifics in the Forums, so that we don't get any copycat experimenters. I'll update the public thread very soon.

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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by ken2736 » May 31st, 2020, 9:04 pm

Andy,

I'm a little nervous about putting 46% urea down and burning my lawn. So, can you help me understand the math behind 1lb per k, or 2lb of product per k. Slightly confused

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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by andy10917 » May 31st, 2020, 9:25 pm

'm a little nervous about putting 46% urea down and burning my lawn. So, can you help me understand the math behind 1lb per k, or 2lb of product per k. Slightly confused
Urea is 46-0-0, or 46% Nitrogen. 2 lbs/K then is 0.92 lbs/L of Nitrogen - we set a limit of 1.00 lbs/K of Nitrogen per application (monthly) - so you're under the limit.

Want a safer application to start? Apply 1 lb/K every two weeks - it's more work but you have to make a mistake in the same exact spot two times in a row (very unlikely).

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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by ken2736 » May 31st, 2020, 9:30 pm

So let's say a 50lb bag would cover 25000 sqft at 2lbs per k of actual product. 23lbs (46%) of actual nitrogen in same 50lb bag? Is this right?

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andy10917
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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by andy10917 » May 31st, 2020, 9:38 pm

That is correct.

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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by ken2736 » June 1st, 2020, 6:36 pm

Andy,

I'm having a heck of a time sourcing urea locally. Only place that has it sells only in bulk.

One concern is applying urea in the heat of summer, is this okay?

If I cant find urea, then will FAS work instead?

Thanks

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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by andy10917 » June 1st, 2020, 7:55 pm

If I cant find urea, then will FAS work instead?
I've already answered that question. I'll repeat the answer:
That's an Apples vs Kumquats comparison. FAS is to get some good color because the Iron in the soil isn't available to the lawn at pH 8.4. Urea is a Nitrogen source - the "N" is the NPK rating on all bags of fertilizer. Iron from FAS is optional for color, Nitrogen is not optional.
There is ***NO*** comparison between the use of foliar-applied FAS and a standard Nitrogen fertilizer like Urea. It's a comparison that can't be made!

If you can't source Urea, how are you going to source Ammonium Sulfate and Ferrous Sulfate and make FAS?

Ken, I think you may be best advised to go back to what you were doing before you found this site, and read/learn some of the material on the site until you feel you understand the basics of fertilizers and other nutrients. Urea is a basic fertilizer component found in almost all fertilizer products. The only difference is that Urea is the Nitrogen number, without Phosphorus or Potassium.

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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by ken2736 » June 1st, 2020, 8:55 pm

Just trying to learn. Thanks

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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by andy10917 » June 1st, 2020, 9:08 pm

I have no problem with trying to learn, Ken, and you're welcome here - but you're probably better off staying in your comfortable zone until you understand that a solution like FAS that changes coloration a shade or two and a Urea application are very, very different and not interchangeable. I don't want you harming your lawn or being nervous that you're going to harm anything.

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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by TimmyG » June 1st, 2020, 10:35 pm

Ken, if you truly cannot source urea locally (I would think Montana would be swimming in feed and grain stores), there are plenty of high-nitrogen fertilizer options on the market with no phosphorus and little potassium. One such example is Scotts Turf Builder 32-0-4. It's just silly to pay so much more for brand-name products if and when urea is available.

Do keep trying to find urea. Andy is looking out for your best interest is avoiding any more cations, potassium included.

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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by bpgreen » June 2nd, 2020, 1:02 am

If you can't find urea, can you find ammonium sulfate (21-0-0)? That seems to be more common in Utah than urea. Maybe the same would be true in Montana.

As you can see from the first number, it's about half as strong as urea.

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Re: Ken2736 soil test

Post by ken2736 » June 2nd, 2020, 2:46 pm

TimmyG wrote:
June 1st, 2020, 10:35 pm
Ken, if you truly cannot source urea locally (I would think Montana would be swimming in feed and grain stores), there are plenty of high-nitrogen fertilizer options on the market with no phosphorus and little potassium. One such example is Scotts Turf Builder 32-0-4. It's just silly to pay so much more for brand-name products if and when urea is available.

Do keep trying to find urea. Andy is looking out for your best interest is avoiding any more cations, potassium included.
I will keep looking for more options. I was confused on the fact that urea is a nitrogen source. I'm clear on that now. If I cant find something that has 0 potassium, then Scott's will have to do.

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