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Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: November 13th, 2020, 12:07 pm
by Trashburner
I’ve been doing a little research on Anderson’s humic DG and would like to try it out. Is it okay to apply it now ?? I’m in transition zone, have tttf, soil temperature is around 65 degrees, air temperature in the 60’s and first frost average is November 22, thanks

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: November 13th, 2020, 1:38 pm
by andy10917
You *could* do it now, but I don't see any advantage to doing it. It isn't a fertilizer and won't do anything visible. The best times are shortly after green-up in your area (at 2 lbs/K), and a second app just before the real heat of summer (at 2 lbs/K). Don't apply a total over 5 lbs/K in a 12-month period, and remember to leave some headroom for BLSC/KH apps.

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: November 13th, 2020, 2:30 pm
by Trashburner
Thanks Andy

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: March 15th, 2021, 4:29 pm
by Hammbone81
andy10917 wrote:
November 13th, 2020, 1:38 pm
....Don't apply a total over 5 lbs/K in a 12-month period, and remember to leave some headroom for BLSC/KH apps.
....why?

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: March 15th, 2021, 5:41 pm
by andy10917
Because it's perfectly capable of tying-up your nutrients that you're applying, and causing a false shortage, or even Chlorosis. Ever seen Chlorosis? It's ugly and other-than-optimal.

Remember, lawn care is a marathon, not a sprint...

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: March 15th, 2021, 6:09 pm
by MorpheusPA
Quite. Five pounds of humic acid has enough binding points to suck up an enormous amount of resources. One could compensate for that with some math and applications, but... One usually has better things to do with one's day.

I was embroiled in a horrible argument over using dolomitic lime to adjust peat and bark pH over the weekend (I was on the "use calcitic and pre-adjust before planting in that, or buy pre-adjusted Miracle Gro potting mix" side, not to mention the Ca:Mg mismatch) for exactly this reason. The pH will be 4.5 or so, due to resource binding points being only partially filled.

This is like that bark and peat moss. It'll happily suck up everything releasing until it's satisfied, while the plant sits there, getting very little until the balances start to turn in favor of the plant. It won't set off a pH issue, but the misbalancing of resources are certainly going to happen.

(And it's nice to have this discussion without the name-calling and needing to summon an administrator...)

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: March 15th, 2021, 9:57 pm
by Hammbone81
Thanks for the insight. I put some down on October 11, 2020 at 3lb/M. My thought process was that it'd help hold onto the urea I put down in November. The prior 2 seasons with this sandy soil, it seemed as though urea did almost nothing for spring green-up. I thought it'd help this year. Still too early to tell. (Over thinking things has gotten me in trouble before. Haha.)

This spring, I plan to use cracked corn and SBM... and was planning to is Humic DG at green-up as well. That'll put me at 5lbs. Should then hold off until next spring? Or should I go again in late June?

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: March 15th, 2021, 10:17 pm
by andy10917
I don't know - I haven't done it. I have one suspicious case with applications that were very close.

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: March 15th, 2021, 10:40 pm
by MorpheusPA
If you do try, let us know. The signs will be a pale green to yellow lawn, slowed growth, and you begging for help on the forum as to why your lawn looks like golden waves of grain from July through September.

I kid, sort of. Resource binding in a sandy soil really could be fairly bad when you add a high-CEC humic acid in large amounts. It won't kill the lawn, but it could be kind of unpleasant-looking for a little bit.

I've also had suspicious cases, not with HA but with altering planting media on potted plants. Sudden alterations there can cause sudden changes in plant behavior, chlorosis, etc., and it's all because you just changed the resources available in the soil.

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: March 15th, 2021, 11:05 pm
by andy10917
Too much of a good thing, is a bad thing. This is not about Humates alone, but many things. The "I want it NOW" approach does not work on lawns and gardens. Period. This is a bad hobby for people that think like that.

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: March 15th, 2021, 11:22 pm
by MorpheusPA
What, you mean if 450mg of magnesium citrate is good for you, ten times that isn't ten times as good?

Excuse me, I really have to go to the gents... like NOW.

(Fun fact: I'm a little magnesium short, which sometimes leads to minor coronary artery spasms, so I take 150mg per day, sufficient to stabilize my systems without side effects. I was amused to see the ingredients on the kit when I had my colonoscopy...)

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: March 16th, 2021, 12:45 am
by bpgreen
:o
MorpheusPA wrote:
March 15th, 2021, 11:22 pm
What, you mean if 450mg of magnesium citrate is good for you, ten times that isn't ten times as good?

Excuse me, I really have to go to the gents... like NOW.

(Fun fact: I'm a little magnesium short, which sometimes leads to minor coronary artery spasms, so I take 150mg per day, sufficient to stabilize my systems without side effects. I was amused to see the ingredients on the kit when I had my colonoscopy...)
Not to sidetrack too much, but that explains a few things. I started making sports gels and electrolyte drinks some time back. A little magnesium citrate did wonders for stopping cramps (especially during swimming).

I had some injuries and exercised less for a while, so I wasn't making the drinks. I'm still avoiding the pool (until the second shot is fully protective). But I've been running more. So I started making the drinks again.

I just realized that I've been using far more magnesium citrate than I used to use. Still way below the single serving amount, but I have had . . . side effects a few times. Time to redo the formula.

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: March 16th, 2021, 6:45 am
by Hammbone81
MorpheusPA wrote:
March 15th, 2021, 10:40 pm
...The signs will be a pale green to yellow lawn, slowed growth, and you begging for help on the forum as to why your lawn looks like golden waves of grain from July through September.
↑ this doesn't seem much different than where I was before Humic DG with this sandy / calcareous soil.

Per the Anderson's website, the application rate is 40-200lb/Acre = .92-4.6lb/M. But I didn't see mention of that being an annual dosage, so that's good to know!

Now, with 5lb/M/year is the magic dosage limit, and I put down 3lb/M in October, in theory have ~2lb/M "allowed" yet. Right?
So, then I could put it down at green-up this fall, or wait until late June. Then take a break until next spring again.
Does this sound like a reasonable approach?

The question is; which is a better have only one option this season? Green-up or June? Without input, I tend to lean toward June, but I'm eager to hear your thoughts.

As always - thanks guys!

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: March 16th, 2021, 7:58 am
by andy10917
You're overthinking this. There is no "magic", and nothing that's a hard limit -- just the experiences of several people that I have talked to. I did a call with an agronomist that has authored several books, the owner of Logan Labs, and an advisor from The Andersons. We talked about how Humic DG would show up on lab tests, and the best timing that I had come up with in 3-4 years of testing. What you are getting is the result of those discussions, and observations from my use and the results that others have documented. I have no experience with playing in the margins of use right before frozen soil, and whether the winter time counts. Are there "better options"? I dunno. All I know is that what I and others have experienced and use for guidance. YMMV and you're free to do what you want. I do know that we saw weird lab test results when a member applied the first application late and the second application early, with only 3 weeks between applications - we couldn't find the whole season's nutrients on the test results.

We're still testing the experiences of members with calcareous soils, and the conclusions won't be out until June. Until then, I'm recommending that people play things conservatively.

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: March 16th, 2021, 12:28 pm
by Hammbone81
Andy - thanks for that background. I'm learning, every day. Been on this forum 10yrs and the learning never ends. Such is life, right?

I was planning to pull soil plugs and send in a sample this week anyway. Perhaps I'll still do that and see where I stand. I'll be sure to note what I've done and that I had a late season app of Humic DG.

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: March 16th, 2021, 4:02 pm
by MorpheusPA
bpgreen wrote:
March 16th, 2021, 12:45 am
Not to sidetrack too much, but that explains a few things. I started making sports gels and electrolyte drinks some time back. A little magnesium citrate did wonders for stopping cramps (especially during swimming).

I had some injuries and exercised less for a while, so I wasn't making the drinks. I'm still avoiding the pool (until the second shot is fully protective). But I've been running more. So I started making the drinks again.

I just realized that I've been using far more magnesium citrate than I used to use. Still way below the single serving amount, but I have had . . . side effects a few times. Time to redo the formula.
Oh, this is both funny and not funny because I feel your pain. Yes. Yes. Ease into that stuff, and mind the maximum amount.

150mg is fine for me. Or 500mg of magnesium oxide (which absorbs poorly anyway). Or both if I need to. And you do adjust if you give it time, usually. :-)

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: March 16th, 2021, 4:21 pm
by MorpheusPA
andy10917 wrote:
March 16th, 2021, 7:58 am
We're still testing the experiences of members with calcareous soils, and the conclusions won't be out until June. Until then, I'm recommending that people play things conservatively.
I'm wondering what it would do with more basic soils. I'm not a good test subject, as my OM is extremely high and resources parked firmly in the "find some other hobby" range.

Although I have left that go for a few years and probably should test again.

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: April 30th, 2021, 10:55 am
by Hammbone81
Here's some follow up from my October 2020 application of Humic DG.

I now understand that I deviated from the recommended application times. However, my thought at the time was to put it down to help hold on to the urea in November since that's been a problem with my sandy soil. Well, I think it helped. I observed better spring green-up this season that I ever have in this house (this is my 4th growing season in this house).

April 8, 2021
Image

April 27, 2021
Image

Because I did the fall application, I'm forgoing my first drop of Humic DG for this spring. I'll wait until mid-late June for my next drop. Not sure if I'll try again in the fall, or just do the two apps next spring / early summer.

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: April 30th, 2021, 5:58 pm
by MorpheusPA
It looks great, and this was not a great year for spring green-up. Mine was late, as were most other lawns, with the second mow finally getting done on May first. And it barely needs it.

Re: Anderson’s Humic DG

Posted: April 30th, 2021, 11:05 pm
by vinceisvince
i have really garbage sandy soil ... this stuff seems to be a miracle solution.