AndyV 2021 Soil Test

Learn how improving your soil can lead to a better looking lawn
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falcon
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AndyV 2021 Soil Test

Post by falcon » April 7th, 2021, 8:34 am

Thanks to all of the volunteers that take their time to help out with these interpretations. It's much appreciated.


Image

First, a disclaimer:

Last year when I took samples, I used a trowel and sampled at 4", but I included the entire sample depth, not just the part from 3-4". Rookie mistake that I didn't realize until more closely reading the way to take a sample for this year. This year I used a sample core tool and only used the soil from 3-4".

Now for the background:

I only tested my front lawn this year, because that is my only irrigated section, it is where I focus 90% of my effort, and the results/suggested regimen were not materially different from the other areas of my lawn. The other areas of my lawn are only getting nitrogen, lime, SOP, and Epsom (not at the same time) before a rain when I get lucky enough to get some at the right time.

Here is a link to my results from last year - which due to sampling error are probably not that helpful. Compare front to front:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25664&hilit=andyv

Last year I killed the lawn and re-seeded with a TTTF/KBG blend (seems like the KBG didn't really come in and is mostly TTTF), and you can see the results here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=25995&p=343745#p343745

Last year was my first year really trying to learn this hobby, and it was a great learning experience. Lots more to learn.

The "front" yard is ~3000 square feet and is mostly exposed to sun for most of the day. The back of the house faces nearly due south, so the sun rises behind the home. Only a very small portion of the grass is shaded for part of the day, the rest is getting sun but not the totally direct, beating rays.

I'd be interested in what an "advanced" approach might look like, and then decide if I want to scale back depending on what that looks like. I do have a great supplier close by of many items that are typically harder to get.

Last year, the soil test results showed really high phosphate which negated the use of most organics. Not sure if these results mean I could use Bay State if I wanted to.

Thanks again for all of the help!

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andy10917
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Re: AndyV 2021 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » April 8th, 2021, 8:18 am

This year's test results are telling a very, very different tale, and I'd really like to understand the "why" of the differences before just throwing a plan at you that might waste your time and money. i understand that you took the samples last year in a different way, but the three tests last year showed TEC's of just below 5 to around 8 (pretty sandy to being into the Loam soils). This year's test shows an extremely low 2.35, and even that was raised by pretty nice OM% numbers. That equates to beach sand at the test depth.

Is there any explanation for the big differences? Was this the result of new construction, where they threw a couple of inches of topsoil on top of a pure sand subsoil?

I know you'd like to get your interpretation and get to work, but it really behooves us to understand what's really going on here first...

falcon
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Re: AndyV 2021 Soil Test

Post by falcon » April 8th, 2021, 8:54 am

Andy, I was really surprised by the difference as well. Aside from the difference in sampling methods described above, I can only think of there being a difference in WHERE I took the samples.

I took ~12 cores from various spots in the lawn. And despite the lawn only being 25 feet wide, you can see and feel a large difference in the soil the closer you get to the road. The lawn goes right to the road and the first ~3 feet are quite sandy and rocky compared to the rest of the lawn. I took 3 samples from that area that I mixed with the rest, which now seems like it was a bad idea. The remainder of the soil can be sampled with little resistance, and looks and feels closer to a cultivated garden bed rather than hard packed liked the stuff closer to the road. And the "good" soil is absolutely packed with worms, as I discovered while digging out wild onion and garlic bulbs before I put down my pre-M.

Before the renovation, the only stuff growing on the soil near the road was crabgrass and various other horrible looking stuff.

There was no new construction or top soil added. I renovated the lawn in August 2020 and used peat moss to cover the seed, and added a ton of leaves in the fall. I didn't expect that to make a huge addition to the OM in one year, but I certainly wasn't expecting a drop.

Given this, would you suggest taking two different samples from the "good" and "bad" areas and sending in for a new analysis? I don't mind eating the cost if that is the best course of action.

Thanks so much.

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andy10917
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Re: AndyV 2021 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » April 8th, 2021, 9:00 am

I hate to send you for more tests, but I'd hate to see you waste time and $$$ even more. I guess that's the best angle to pursue...

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Re: AndyV 2021 Soil Test

Post by falcon » April 8th, 2021, 9:06 am

Ok, I will follow up ASAP. Seems like this might be a fun challenge...for me anyway. Although last year you did say you liked a challenge too!


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andy10917
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Re: AndyV 2021 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » April 8th, 2021, 7:05 pm

OK - please make a fresh entry in the Queue when it comes in

falcon
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Re: AndyV 2021 Soil Test

Post by falcon » April 20th, 2021, 12:28 pm

Andy, here are the latest results. This seems to make a lot of sense now. My only additional question to what I wrote above would be how to improve the roadside soil, so it actually becomes something that resembles soil rather than gravel/sand. Thanks again for your time and help.
Image

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andy10917
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Re: AndyV 2021 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » April 21st, 2021, 9:03 pm

Alright, so the Road Side is the worst offender. The interesting point is that the two areas share the same problems - it's all in the degree.

Start the two areas out, but REALLY pour on the organic matter (OM%) in the Road area. That by no means ignore the Front. The OM is not lifting the TEC, and you're draining out the nutrients through an imaginary drain under the yard.

Put down good calcitic lime (Encap/Mag-I-Cal/SoluCal), mixed with 2 lbs/K Epsom Salts. Apply at the Heavy rate + 2 lbs/K. Repeat every 90 days.

Get and apply Sulfate of Potash (0-0-50, "SOP") at 2 lbs/K monthly until September.

Phosphorus is OK.

Iron is not where we want it, but there's going to be a lot of Calcium around, so we'll wait on that one.

In the micro's, Boron and Manganese are short - is that a 2021 project or not?

So, what's the most important things in this regimen?

<listens>

Wrong!!!! It's the organic matter. In second place, it's the organic matter!

falcon
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Re: AndyV 2021 Soil Test

Post by falcon » April 21st, 2021, 10:25 pm

Andy, thanks so much for your time on this.

I've already got the calcitic lime, epsom, and SOP.

Last year you recommended 9lbs/K of lime every 90 days, is that still the case? I was confused by what you wrote in your last reply.

I know that adding OM is a marathon, but these results indicate a need for urgency. Do you have any advice on frequency and material? I assume just put it down without smothering and do it as fast as it will process?

The roadside soil is probably three feet wide before it becomes better, and 65 feet long. So not a lot of ground to cover if there's a more expensive material that would boost OM faster. I do have a peat roller which makes that easy, albeit expensive, especially if I did the entire 2500 sq ft with it.

For micros, let me do some reading on boron and manganese. I haven't reached the level where I have tried to learn those items. Let me see what it entails and follow up on that piece.

Thanks again!

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andy10917
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Re: AndyV 2021 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » April 21st, 2021, 10:54 pm

Yup - I switched to Heavy rate because the different products have different dosing levels.
I assume just put it down without smothering and do it as fast as it will process?
Yes. We can discuss Humic DG if you'd like to...

falcon
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Re: AndyV 2021 Soil Test

Post by falcon » April 22nd, 2021, 7:36 am

That would be great. I haven't done much reading on Humic, so if you'd rather point me to an existing thread, please let me know. Otherwise, let's discuss here.

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Re: AndyV 2021 Soil Test

Post by falcon » May 1st, 2021, 9:05 am

Andy, I had a chance to do some reading on Humic. I read through your thread and obviously there are good benefits to it, and I did read your bullet points. Yet I am not sure I understand exactly what it is doing. Is it just raising TEC as a crutch until you get better OM%, or is it actually raising OM itself? And is this a product you continue to use even when your OM% is high enough?

If I understand the regimen, it's 2lbs/K, 2x a year, with the first app being now, and towards the end of June in my area. Do I have that right?

As far as OM, do you have a preference for material? My compost pile at this new property is already getting quite large, but it's not quite ready. Getting yards of compost delivered isn't expensive, but compared to rolling out peat with my roller, it's a pain. But peat is quite expensive compared to compost. Is there anything else I should consider?

In summary, it sounds like you'd recommend adding OM as fast as it can be processed, and do the Humic regimen I outlined above, assuming I have it correct?

Still need some time to read up on Boron and Manganese...

Thanks so much!

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andy10917
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Re: AndyV 2021 Soil Test

Post by andy10917 » May 1st, 2021, 10:17 am

Andy, I had a chance to do some reading on Humic. I read through your thread and obviously there are good benefits to it, and I did read your bullet points. Yet I am not sure I understand exactly what it is doing. Is it just raising TEC as a crutch until you get better OM%, or is it actually raising OM itself? And is this a product you continue to use even when your OM% is high enough?

If I understand the regimen, it's 2lbs/K, 2x a year, with the first app being now, and towards the end of June in my area. Do I have that right?

As far as OM, do you have a preference for material? My compost pile at this new property is already getting quite large, but it's not quite ready. Getting yards of compost delivered isn't expensive, but compared to rolling out peat with my roller, it's a pain. But peat is quite expensive compared to compost. Is there anything else I should consider?

In summary, it sounds like you'd recommend adding OM as fast as it can be processed, and do the Humic regimen I outlined above, assuming I have it correct?

Still need some time to read up on Boron and Manganese...

Thanks so much!
Ahhhhh, it's very nuanced and not as simple to explain as I'd like...

When you try to discuss it, many many people see it as a way to take a short-cut to the finish line. When you provide lots of detail, they TL;DR it and try to jump to "Now I have the solution!. Game over!".

Not so fast. Organic matter is in many forms, from grass clippings and green leaves, all the way to end-state OM sources like Humic and Fulvic Acids. If we think we can just finesse the test result, we're fooling ourselves. There is a place in the decomposition cycle for OM at all stages. From grass clippings and green leaves to compost to middle-stage like peat moss to end-stage products like Humic Acid, the process that nature uses take up to 1,000 years. Skip all the middle steps and nature's processes don't happen. You'd think that we'd all have learned that just pumping Urea (Nitrogen) into the soil/plants is a miracle cure, but we've wound up with sickly, low-nutrition plants that require fungicides, etc to just survive.

So, what am I trying to say and write about? I'm trying to say that Humic DG is one tool that can be applied in an overall regimen, but if you rely on a one-trick pony, you're likely to be disappointed long-term. It's more of "tool" than a "crutch", but using it alone and ignoring early- and mid-stage is a mistake. Right now, there is a separate posting (not from you) calling it a Miracle. Arrrrgh! There are no miracles - there are only people that are willing to cut corners to get a test result that doesn't represent the real status.

Another fake-out that is occurring is believing that if a product says "Humic Acid" that it will do the job. Products that are out there range from 3% to 75% Humic Acid, and there is real correlation between the cheap solutions and laughably low amounts of actual working product.

BTW, your details about how/when is pretty much on the mark.

falcon
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Re: AndyV 2021 Soil Test

Post by falcon » May 2nd, 2021, 9:20 am

Andy, thanks for that. Even without all of the nuance, I think I got your point. I know it will take years to get the roadside OM up, thankfully the rest is not that awful.

It's helpful to know that Humic is part of an overall regimen. I will start the Humic (I have local access to the Anderson's product, I'm fairly certain), and continue mulching the clippings and adding leaves. I'll also do compost and peat moss this year as well.

I'll do some reading on Boron and Manganese and come back on to you on that. In the meantime, I've got plenty to do!

Thanks so much.

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