Vinceisvince - 2021- Soil test - SAND YARD

Learn how improving your soil can lead to a better looking lawn
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vinceisvince
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Vinceisvince - 2021- Soil test - SAND YARD

Post by vinceisvince » April 30th, 2021, 11:29 am

I'm super excited, I kinda cheated a little bit and took soil from the parts of my yard that were greener and doing better but I know I have the worse soil in existence on this forum so I take that title gladly. Since I have no soil worthy of holding anything I come to the realization that I have to water my grass every other day, cause my sandy soil will just drain quickly. Once i've come to the realization my yard is looking a ton better.

1) Bought an automower mowing 0.8inches daily
2) water every other day
3) slow release (milorganite) every 2 weeks.

Yes it's more work. I have bermuda grass, live in columbia SC. Here's my 2018 soil test: viewtopic.php?t=23665

Here's my recent soil test:
Image

OM has doubled!? I'm SUPER excited, yes its very low still, or maybe just the better parts of the yard have more OM. Anyhow I see worms, hopefully they're working hard for me. I haven't really done a whole lot of throwing dirt on the problem... ha. My old house I bought peat moss and threw on the ground. It's probably not worth it, I feel if I get my grass healthy and strong it'll create the eco system for the worms/other things in the dirt which will help more than anything else. I put 10-10-10 down at 10lb per 1k already about a month ago. Going to milorganite all spring/summer.

vinceisvince
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Re: Vinceisvince - 2021- Soil test - SAND YARD

Post by vinceisvince » April 30th, 2021, 12:13 pm

also I’ve been thinking of crazy schemes.. like in horrible parts of the yard where i’ll dig and get hourglass sand... can I just do spotty work where I dig up the sand and put down some potting soil? then perhaps i get patches of strong healthy grass to spread easier and change the soil overall?

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MorpheusPA
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Re: Vinceisvince - 2021- Soil test - SAND YARD

Post by MorpheusPA » May 2nd, 2021, 5:40 pm

Don't do crazy things, there's no point. Sand is not really a problem anyway, it's a nice base, and even the "good" parts of your yard are sand with a CEC of 3. That's practically beach sand. I can't say if that's true for Columbia, SC as a whole or not, but...it's what you have.

OM tends to be self-limiting on sand due to the amount of oxygen in it (a lot) which will burn off copious amounts of OM very fast. Again, that's not a problem, just an observation.

If you could stretch watering to every third day....well, with that soil, I understand the limitations. Do what you can. Just try to water in the mornings so the grass doesn't go into the overnight hours wet.

Your pH is a tad high from the sodium levels, not from anything else. Calcium is a bit high. The normal method of removing sodium isn't going to work here, and the sodium level's a bit deceptive anyway--your EC is so low, it's actually not a problem. Therefore, I'm going to do something a little weird.

I'm going to fill other spaces in the soil and try to knock out sodium in favor of a little bit of magnesium and potassium, try for a bit of salt metathesis, and try to get rid of the sodium as sodium sulfate. Call this one "Weird Chemist Games." The net result will be that I'm adding alkalines to your soil...to acidify (drop) the pH.

You're going to need a big bag of Epsom salt (how large, I'm not sure). It'll add up to be 2 pounds of Epsom salt per thousand square feet, but the size of your lawn isn't specified. Most grocery stores or drug stores carry this.

Similarly, potassium sulfate (you can get this at most landscape stores, or they can order it for you). If you absolutely cannot locate it, I'm OK with potassium chloride. Amounts here are compatible with either chemical as I'm applying this VERY gently. Grand total amount will be 3 pounds per thousand square feet of either.

None of this interacts with Milorganite, so if you want to move it to apply at the same time, perfect. Or move so that it's not on the same dates, great. Whatever you prefer.

Your boron levels are pretty low, which is normal in a sandy soil, but not great for the grass. Read the Micronutrient Application Guide under the FAQs. I made a recommendation below, but if you're not comfortable doing this, you can skip it. It's applied using Milorganite as a carrier, however, and 20 Mule Team Borax (grocery store, laundry aisle). I assumed you feed on the first of the month just for convenience. :-)

Recommendations:

May 15: Apply 2 pounds of Epsom salt per thousand square feet.

June 1: Apply 3 Tbsp 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet using the Micronutrient Application Guide.

June 15: Apply around 1.5 pounds of potassium sulfate per thousand square feet.

August 1: Apply 3 Tbsp 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet using the Micronutrient Application Guide.

August 15: Apply around 1.5 pounds of potassium sulfate per thousand square feet.

October 1: Apply 3 Tbsp 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet using the Micronutrient Application Guide.

bpgreen
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Re: Vinceisvince - 2021- Soil test - SAND YARD

Post by bpgreen » May 2nd, 2021, 11:11 pm

As an aside, Walmart sometimes sells Epsom salt in the garden section in larger bags for less money than you'll usually find it, because it's fertilizer grade instead of cosmetic grade.

vinceisvince
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Re: Vinceisvince - 2021- Soil test - SAND YARD

Post by vinceisvince » May 3rd, 2021, 9:24 am

bpgreen wrote:
May 2nd, 2021, 11:11 pm
As an aside, Walmart sometimes sells Epsom salt in the garden section in larger bags for less money than you'll usually find it, because it's fertilizer grade instead of cosmetic grade.
Just updated my profile, about 8k sq feet. I live in an area named "the sandhills" which use to be prehistoric beach area... fitting right.

Anyhow yea yard is a long way to go. I've found big epsom bag before and that sounds fine. I'll try it out, have nothing to lose. It's been a little hot and cold recently, so I think that's affecting green up. THe one massive thing this year in the positive side is I put down pre-emergent nicely and have a massive reduction in weeds. THere's still a lot of POA annua but so much better this year.

Picture of my robot, I searched the forum and no one seems to have tried them out yet, I love it.

Moles are an issue, been trying to take care of them.

There's some nice yards so I blame the builder, probably put too much sand down to level out the construction.
Image

Image

Image


vinceisvince
Posts: 100
Joined: June 4th, 2013, 1:29 pm
Location: Columbia, SC (Northeast)
Grass Type: Bermuda Tifway 419
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
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Re: Vinceisvince - 2021- Soil test - SAND YARD

Post by vinceisvince » May 7th, 2021, 12:07 pm

MorpheusPA wrote:
May 2nd, 2021, 5:40 pm
Don't do crazy things, there's no point. Sand is not really a problem anyway, it's a nice base, and even the "good" parts of your yard are sand with a CEC of 3. That's practically beach sand. I can't say if that's true for Columbia, SC as a whole or not, but...it's what you have.

OM tends to be self-limiting on sand due to the amount of oxygen in it (a lot) which will burn off copious amounts of OM very fast. Again, that's not a problem, just an observation.

If you could stretch watering to every third day....well, with that soil, I understand the limitations. Do what you can. Just try to water in the mornings so the grass doesn't go into the overnight hours wet.

Your pH is a tad high from the sodium levels, not from anything else. Calcium is a bit high. The normal method of removing sodium isn't going to work here, and the sodium level's a bit deceptive anyway--your EC is so low, it's actually not a problem. Therefore, I'm going to do something a little weird.

I'm going to fill other spaces in the soil and try to knock out sodium in favor of a little bit of magnesium and potassium, try for a bit of salt metathesis, and try to get rid of the sodium as sodium sulfate. Call this one "Weird Chemist Games." The net result will be that I'm adding alkalines to your soil...to acidify (drop) the pH.

You're going to need a big bag of Epsom salt (how large, I'm not sure). It'll add up to be 2 pounds of Epsom salt per thousand square feet, but the size of your lawn isn't specified. Most grocery stores or drug stores carry this.

Similarly, potassium sulfate (you can get this at most landscape stores, or they can order it for you). If you absolutely cannot locate it, I'm OK with potassium chloride. Amounts here are compatible with either chemical as I'm applying this VERY gently. Grand total amount will be 3 pounds per thousand square feet of either.

None of this interacts with Milorganite, so if you want to move it to apply at the same time, perfect. Or move so that it's not on the same dates, great. Whatever you prefer.

Your boron levels are pretty low, which is normal in a sandy soil, but not great for the grass. Read the Micronutrient Application Guide under the FAQs. I made a recommendation below, but if you're not comfortable doing this, you can skip it. It's applied using Milorganite as a carrier, however, and 20 Mule Team Borax (grocery store, laundry aisle). I assumed you feed on the first of the month just for convenience. :-)

Recommendations:

May 15: Apply 2 pounds of Epsom salt per thousand square feet.

June 1: Apply 3 Tbsp 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet using the Micronutrient Application Guide.

June 15: Apply around 1.5 pounds of potassium sulfate per thousand square feet.

August 1: Apply 3 Tbsp 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet using the Micronutrient Application Guide.

August 15: Apply around 1.5 pounds of potassium sulfate per thousand square feet.

October 1: Apply 3 Tbsp 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet using the Micronutrient Application Guide.

sulfate if potash ok? also how important is it … i got everything else though. just kinda pricey it seems but oh well

vinceisvince
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Joined: June 4th, 2013, 1:29 pm
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Re: Vinceisvince - 2021- Soil test - SAND YARD

Post by vinceisvince » May 7th, 2021, 12:15 pm

bought some sulfate of potash

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MorpheusPA
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Re: Vinceisvince - 2021- Soil test - SAND YARD

Post by MorpheusPA » May 7th, 2021, 5:29 pm

Sulfate of potash is potassium sulfate and yes, either people can't find it or the pricing is ridiculous. As you got it...it's fine, but I would have been OK with potassium chloride.

But potassium sulfate is better. :-) It's less harsh.

Masbustelo
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Re: Vinceisvince - 2021- Soil test - SAND YARD

Post by Masbustelo » May 7th, 2021, 6:23 pm

Vinceisvince I am interested in robotic mowers. Locally where I live I haven't been able to find anyone that is using one. I wanted to see what lawns look like that are being cut by them and talk to the owners. My yard is steep in areas and would be pushing the incline limits. I'm curious why they aren't more popular for residential use. They have been on the market for 30 years.

bpgreen
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Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 2:28 am
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Re: Vinceisvince - 2021- Soil test - SAND YARD

Post by bpgreen » May 7th, 2021, 10:03 pm

I'm pretty sure that if you search for myrtle on this site, you'll find numerous posts by morpheuspa describing his robotic mower (myrtle the turtle).

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Re: Vinceisvince - 2021- Soil test - SAND YARD

Post by MorpheusPA » May 8th, 2021, 3:07 am

Oh, yeah, I just hadn't chimed in. Myrtle the Turtle is a Robomower RL-850. Or was until an oaf who shall remain nameless broke the main front wheel while trying to reseat the top case. That would be my dear husband.

It's beyond even my ability to fix, and I can cast some PVC plastics at home.

I have to replace her at some point here, but have had other things come up, including a layoff due to the Coronavirus.

Inclines are of interest for mowers, and it does depend. Mine doesn't much exceed 1% grade, so no issues there, except in the swale, which has other challenges like being filled by Thuja. Even with Myrtle, I did that by hand anyway. It took five minutes. Some include spiked wheel options that can handle rather steep grades.

Batteries are often an issue; the older lead batteries were expensive, didn't last long, and degraded through their lifespans. The newer lithium ones are expensive, last much longer, and have a different degradation curve through their lifespans... Fortunately, I've studied lithium batteries for other purposes, but high-draw appliances aren't exactly the optimal use for them.

Mow height is another issue. Myrtle had a limit of 3". So if it's important to you, pay attention when shopping. Personally, I'd like a new one with an upper deck of 3.5".

vinceisvince
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Re: Vinceisvince - 2021- Soil test - SAND YARD

Post by vinceisvince » May 10th, 2021, 4:21 pm

Masbustelo wrote:
May 7th, 2021, 6:23 pm
Vinceisvince I am interested in robotic mowers. Locally where I live I haven't been able to find anyone that is using one. I wanted to see what lawns look like that are being cut by them and talk to the owners. My yard is steep in areas and would be pushing the incline limits. I'm curious why they aren't more popular for residential use. They have been on the market for 30 years.
oh man i’m so in love with mine… i highly recommend it. you can look on reddit at automower or landroid. automower was my choice because it goes down to 0.8 inches. landroid goes about 1.6. they have very high cutting versions too but i have bermuda.

also does anyone know if this splotchy dead spots is from “spring dead spot”? which i’m reading is a fungal issue from a wet cold winter?

here’s some pics of the job it’s been doing cutting. lithium ion should last 4 or more seasons from what i read. all robotic mowers require boundary wire at the time. some are completely gps but that is only for commercial installs… i bought mine on ebay brand new for $800. they have cheaper models at home depot that you can’t control from phone for $600 but they only do .15 acres it says…they run like 11 hours a day cause they don’t have any smarts of mowing in straight lines like a robot vaccuum (some are coming that i read about!… but all the mowers are super expensive)
Image

Image

Image

vinceisvince
Posts: 100
Joined: June 4th, 2013, 1:29 pm
Location: Columbia, SC (Northeast)
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Lawn Size: 5000-10000
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Re: Vinceisvince - 2021- Soil test - SAND YARD

Post by vinceisvince » March 29th, 2022, 2:35 pm

MorpheusPA wrote:
May 2nd, 2021, 5:40 pm
Don't do crazy things, there's no point. Sand is not really a problem anyway, it's a nice base, and even the "good" parts of your yard are sand with a CEC of 3. That's practically beach sand. I can't say if that's true for Columbia, SC as a whole or not, but...it's what you have.

OM tends to be self-limiting on sand due to the amount of oxygen in it (a lot) which will burn off copious amounts of OM very fast. Again, that's not a problem, just an observation.

If you could stretch watering to every third day....well, with that soil, I understand the limitations. Do what you can. Just try to water in the mornings so the grass doesn't go into the overnight hours wet.

Your pH is a tad high from the sodium levels, not from anything else. Calcium is a bit high. The normal method of removing sodium isn't going to work here, and the sodium level's a bit deceptive anyway--your EC is so low, it's actually not a problem. Therefore, I'm going to do something a little weird.

I'm going to fill other spaces in the soil and try to knock out sodium in favor of a little bit of magnesium and potassium, try for a bit of salt metathesis, and try to get rid of the sodium as sodium sulfate. Call this one "Weird Chemist Games." The net result will be that I'm adding alkalines to your soil...to acidify (drop) the pH.

You're going to need a big bag of Epsom salt (how large, I'm not sure). It'll add up to be 2 pounds of Epsom salt per thousand square feet, but the size of your lawn isn't specified. Most grocery stores or drug stores carry this.

Similarly, potassium sulfate (you can get this at most landscape stores, or they can order it for you). If you absolutely cannot locate it, I'm OK with potassium chloride. Amounts here are compatible with either chemical as I'm applying this VERY gently. Grand total amount will be 3 pounds per thousand square feet of either.

None of this interacts with Milorganite, so if you want to move it to apply at the same time, perfect. Or move so that it's not on the same dates, great. Whatever you prefer.

Your boron levels are pretty low, which is normal in a sandy soil, but not great for the grass. Read the Micronutrient Application Guide under the FAQs. I made a recommendation below, but if you're not comfortable doing this, you can skip it. It's applied using Milorganite as a carrier, however, and 20 Mule Team Borax (grocery store, laundry aisle). I assumed you feed on the first of the month just for convenience. :-)

Recommendations:

May 15: Apply 2 pounds of Epsom salt per thousand square feet.

June 1: Apply 3 Tbsp 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet using the Micronutrient Application Guide.

June 15: Apply around 1.5 pounds of potassium sulfate per thousand square feet.

August 1: Apply 3 Tbsp 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet using the Micronutrient Application Guide.

August 15: Apply around 1.5 pounds of potassium sulfate per thousand square feet.

October 1: Apply 3 Tbsp 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet using the Micronutrient Application Guide.

i’m going to follow this advice again this year. instead of dealing with tons of milorganite i bought some leacock 24-0-11 for hopefully two apps in 1 bag 50 lbs, roughly 8000 sq ft so 32 lbs should cover my yard for 1lb of nitrogen.)

yard looking pretty good, lots of earthworms popping up so that’s promising. i think the robot mower makes all the difference. going to mow a little higher as the grass seemed to struggle at 0.8 inch so going to do 1.0 inch. is there any proof of that??? or is that untrue? maybe it was the mower that couldn’t keep up with .8 inch idk… it does take a while to mow !

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MorpheusPA
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Re: Vinceisvince - 2021- Soil test - SAND YARD

Post by MorpheusPA » March 29th, 2022, 9:34 pm

I've purchased a Landroid in the intervening time period myself (got meself a new job and have zero time for lawn mowing any longer!) I can't say if Bermuda will mind an inch, but I don't think so. And yes, mulch-mowing absolutely helps the earthworm population!

Don't repeat the prescription from last year's soil test!!!!! (Five exclamation points means I'm really serious about that). With your soil, it would cause a potential problem with resource overloading. Get a new soil test for $25 (mine is due at Logan Labs tomorrow afternoon and should be tested by Monday at the latest) and let us read it before doing anything.

That $25, particularly on very sandy soil, will save you a world of pain.

Even us, the experts on this, don't make a move without a test in hand because after the corrections, we're now working blind again. As of Monday at the latest, I won't be. I'll know my 2022 plan.

If you would rather not, no problem--just use the 24-0-11 you bought without adding anything else. It's rather too high in potassium, but that's not going to be a huge issue for one year of use and we can correct for it next year (by telling you not to do that if/when the numbers come back ridiculously high on next year's test). Of them all, potassium is the one thing that's rather difficult to overdo--it just doesn't stick that well.

vinceisvince
Posts: 100
Joined: June 4th, 2013, 1:29 pm
Location: Columbia, SC (Northeast)
Grass Type: Bermuda Tifway 419
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Vinceisvince - 2021- Soil test - SAND YARD

Post by vinceisvince » April 1st, 2022, 8:35 am

MorpheusPA wrote:
March 29th, 2022, 9:34 pm
I've purchased a Landroid in the intervening time period myself (got meself a new job and have zero time for lawn mowing any longer!) I can't say if Bermuda will mind an inch, but I don't think so. And yes, mulch-mowing absolutely helps the earthworm population!

Don't repeat the prescription from last year's soil test!!!!! (Five exclamation points means I'm really serious about that). With your soil, it would cause a potential problem with resource overloading. Get a new soil test for $25 (mine is due at Logan Labs tomorrow afternoon and should be tested by Monday at the latest) and let us read it before doing anything.

That $25, particularly on very sandy soil, will save you a world of pain.

Even us, the experts on this, don't make a move without a test in hand because after the corrections, we're now working blind again. As of Monday at the latest, I won't be. I'll know my 2022 plan.

If you would rather not, no problem--just use the 24-0-11 you bought without adding anything else. It's rather too high in potassium, but that's not going to be a huge issue for one year of use and we can correct for it next year (by telling you not to do that if/when the numbers come back ridiculously high on next year's test). Of them all, potassium is the one thing that's rather difficult to overdo--it just doesn't stick that well.

alright alright purchased another soil test they get it today so we’ll see.

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