Wpstrassburg's first soil test

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wpstrassburg
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Wpstrassburg's first soil test

Post by wpstrassburg » April 12th, 2022, 9:53 pm

Hello all,
First test for our two year old lawn in western NY zone 6a. Just over 2 acres after adding another 1/3 last fall and will be adding another 1/2-3/4 acre over the next few years as I get the perimeter and back woods cleared out a bit more. The majority of the 2 acres went in at the end of may '20 which got hammered with rain before germination, so I lost a bit, but slit seeded in the fall. Shady areas are 75%fescue/25%rye blend and the remaining 2/3 I did in '20 was a 25%KBG/50%rye/25%fescue blend. The fall '20 slit seeding was 60% rye/40% KBG which has filled in all but a few areas the rain took out, but I still have a few areas that are sparse. The 1/3 acre a I put in last fall was a KBG blend of Shamrock, Baron, and Bordeaux blended by a local seed house. We have a sandy loam that has a ton of rock ranging from marble to boulder if you dig around enough, but mostly less than softball size so the shovel never goes far down whenever we're digging anything. I have a 40 gallon sprayer with a 10' boom that has been getting put to good use between mine and a neighbors lawn. The easy weeds are well under control and I'll be digging into anything that survives this springs dose of Triad Select. The end of our first year I sprayed a few doses of KH & BLSC in an attempt so get a bit better percolation as we are situated on sloping areas for all but 20'-40' around the house and leach field. Last summer I used green lawn and turf from kelp4less along with the blsc as it seems that runoff has reduced and the screwdriver makes it further then the tip in now. I've been doing semi aggressive fall fertilizer regimens the past two years and will make sure to get a full regimens worth of urea this year as I haven't been able to get enough so far. I'd like to get everything in to a condition were all areas are filled in to minimize erosion and don't mind going all out on the 1/3 acre around the house as I put in irrigation for all that last year and don't have the concern for that going dormant like the main lawn if we don't get as much consistent rain as we have the past two summers.

I'm sure I've missed something my first time through so let me know anything else I need to help you folks help me.

Here's a shot 4/19/21 where I could see the line where the sprayer went empty, so we'll see next week how much of the ugly stuff is still around compared to last year.

Image


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MorpheusPA
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Re: Wpstrassburg's first soil test

Post by MorpheusPA » April 15th, 2022, 12:00 pm

For a first soil test, it's actually not that bad.

ME 6: Yep, probably a sandy loam. It's a lower-retention soil that will need a bit of watching, but it's not a bad place to be.

pH 7.1: pH follows, it doesn't lead. Ever. But where it's following is detailed below...

OM 2.4%: Meh. If a leaf touches this property, mulch it in. Feed organically (once the adjustments are done, although in this case, I'm extremely tempted to do them organically even though that's a less-controlled method). Higher OM makes your lower ME matter less, but lower ME soils tend to be harder to raise in terms of OM--sand allows in more oxygen, which burns off OM. We do the best we can.

Sulfur 8: Normal. Really, anything from about 5 to 300 is normal.

Phosphorus 71: Low. I'd like to see about 250 at your pH. In this case...I'm going to go off the beaten path and recommend Milorganite or, if you're close enough to get it, Bay State fertilizer. If that's out of reasonable range, physical application, and so on, any starter fertilizer will be fine (because your lawn is HUGE).

Or, use the Milo around the house's 10K square feet or so that you mentioned; it really will help out. Recommendations below will be for that 1/3 acre as you did state you'd be willing to do that...

Calcium 72%: Right in the perfect groove.

Magnesium 20%: Technically high-end perfect, but a lot higher than I like to see. It's a minor reason for the potassium sulfate recommendation where the sulfate will pull a wee bit of magnesium out as magnesium sulfate (Epsom salt) via salt metathesis, and the Milorganite will do the same as the sulfates react with the soil. This is minor, but I'll take what I can get.

Potassium 2%: Technically low-end tolerable (perfect if we round it), but about to fall off the cliff and the numbers above show that.

Shopping List:

Milorganite (Enough for the 1/3 acre around your house)
Potassium Sulfate 40 lbs (Online--Home Depot ships this to me, it's not cheap, other places also ship. Some landscape places have it, or will order it for you, more cheaply. I am not so lucky). If you get 50 and accidentally overapply a little...this is not a problem. :-)

Minor Elements: Boron is extremely low. Copper is just so incredibly marginal that we're completely ignoring it (I am not arguing over 10 parts per billion). Iron is low, but the Milorganite will already help with that, hence the recommendation.

Recommendation:

May 1: Apply 5 tbsp 20 Mule Team Borax in Milorganite carrier as per the Micronutrient Application Guide (this also functions as the spring feeding).

June 1: Feed with Milorganite (unless the weather is already hot and dry, or looks like it's about to become so, or you don't feel like it; the grass won't really need this one, but if you can slip it in, great).

September 1: Apply 5 tbsp 20 Mule Team Borax in Milorganite carrier as per the Micronutrient Application Guide (this also functions as the early fall feeding).

October 1: Apply 5 tbsp 20 Mule Team Borax in Milorganite carrier as per the Micronutrient Application Guide (this also functions as the mid fall feeding).

When growth stops: Winterize with any good synthetic high-nitrogen fertilizer.

wpstrassburg
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Joined: July 13th, 2020, 11:02 am
Location: Macedon, NY
Grass Type: KBG, fecsue, rye mix
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Re: Wpstrassburg's first soil test

Post by wpstrassburg » April 15th, 2022, 10:01 pm

MorpheusPA wrote:
April 15th, 2022, 12:00 pm
For a first soil test, it's actually not that bad.

awesome, I wasn’t sure what I was in for. I’ll probably sample more areas next time individually as some areas were completely scraped of topsoil to virgin soil and I notice they behave differently.



OM 2.4%: Meh. If a leaf touches this property, mulch it in. Not many trees in the main area of the lawn, but whatever stays gets mulched and scattered a bit. Do crabapples count for anything cause I get about a thousand pounds from the few of those we have….

Phosphorus 71: Low. I'd like to see about 250 at your pH. In this case...I'm going to go off the beaten path and recommend Milorganite or, if you're close enough to get it, Bay State fertilizer. If that's out of reasonable range, physical application, and so on, any starter fertilizer will be fine (because your lawn is HUGE).
if I go with a starter for the larger area outside the ring around the house any particular npk ratio I should look for to up p&k? Got a buddy in our Homebrew beer club who works at Growmark which does Ag ferts and nutrients so I should be able to get formulation

Or, use the Milo around the house's 10K square feet or so that you mentioned; it really will help out. Recommendations below will be for that 1/3 acre as you did state you'd be willing to do that...

probably will go the milo route around the house. Ecoscraps seems to have taken over in most places around here, so anything different to consider if I end up with this?

Potassium 2%: Technically low-end tolerable (perfect if we round it), but about to fall off the cliff and the numbers above show that.

I’m assuming I can up this with the starter as well if I get the appropriate amount?

Shopping List:
Potassium Sulfate 40 lbs.
what is my rate /ksf? Not sure if 40# was for 10ksf or 15ksf for a third acre.

any issues spraying this? Need to check compatible tank partners, but assuming compatibility is ok with blsc/kh or even if I spray alone that would be easier for me rather than mixing with milo or broadcasting on its own. When does this go down? I have both streamjet fertilizer nozzles, which I assume would be best for this application, and and a couple different broadcast nozzles.

Minor Elements: Boron is extremely low. Copper is just so incredibly marginal that we're completely ignoring it (I am not arguing over 10 parts per billion). Iron is low, but the Milorganite will already help with that, hence the recommendation.

same spray question as the potassium sulfate, but this seems a bit more benign and easily soluble. Not that it is too pricey, but what chemical am I after if I go with a bulk product to do the whole larger lawn area? Same rate if I apply it on its own, or is there something in the milo where I would apply a higher rate? I have ammonium sulfate and iron sulfate that I’ve sprayed a few times to green things up a bit prior to parties. Any benefits to doing this more often to help with the iron deficiency? I’ve also used one of the Lesco ferts with 2% iron if that’ll help on the larger lawn area

Recommendation:

When growth stops: Winterize with any good synthetic high-nitrogen fertilizer.

if I continue with the standard nitrogen regimen do I reduce the urea amount for the milo added?
Thanks for the help and recommendations.

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MorpheusPA
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Re: Wpstrassburg's first soil test

Post by MorpheusPA » April 16th, 2022, 1:22 pm

wpstrassburg wrote:
April 15th, 2022, 10:01 pm
awesome, I wasn’t sure what I was in for. I’ll probably sample more areas next time individually as some areas were completely scraped of topsoil to virgin soil and I notice they behave differently.
Sure, separate soil tests for good/bad areas are always fine. I'll quote-notate differently below because I'm lazy.

>>>OM 2.4%: Meh. If a leaf touches this property, mulch it in. Not many trees in the main area of the lawn, but whatever stays gets mulched and scattered a bit. Do crabapples count for anything cause I get about a thousand pounds from the few of those we have….

Crabapples are probably not going to be easy to mulch in, so no. Their leaves are great, so do what you can.

>>>Phosphorus 71: Low. physical application, and so on, any starter fertilizer will be fine (because your lawn is HUGE).
if I go with a starter for the larger area outside the ring around the house any particular npk ratio I should look for to up p&k? Got a buddy in our Homebrew beer club who works at Growmark which does Ag ferts and nutrients so I should be able to get formulation

Starters will have a high first and second number. Balanced fertilizers, which is probably what you'll really want instead (see below) have pretty even numbers for all three, like 20-20-20 or 10-10-10. That's for nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium.

>>>Or, use the Milo around the house's 10K square feet or so that you mentioned; it really will help out. Recommendations below will be for that 1/3 acre as you did state you'd be willing to do that...
probably will go the milo route around the house. Ecoscraps seems to have taken over in most places around here, so anything different to consider if I end up with this?

EcoScraps is fine; it's also pretty dominant around here and I use it if Milo is out of stock. I prefer Milo for several reasons (higher nitrogen, and lower price per unit of nitrogen-iron, plus better nitrogen*iron/phosphorus ratio) as I don't need the P, but for you, EcoScraps would actually work out better.

>>>Potassium 2%: Technically low-end tolerable (perfect if we round it), but about to fall off the cliff and the numbers above show that. I’m assuming I can up this with the starter as well if I get the appropriate amount?

Actually, a balanced fertilizer will contain potassium, a starter won't. So if you go that route, use balanced, not starter.

>>>Shopping List: Potassium Sulfate 40 lbs.
what is my rate /ksf? Not sure if 40# was for 10ksf or 15ksf for a third acre.

About 2 pounds per thousand over 15K (or 10K). A bit more won't work.

>>> any issues spraying this? Need to check compatible tank partners, but assuming compatibility is ok with blsc/kh or even if I spray alone that would be easier for me rather than mixing with milo or broadcasting on its own. When does this go down? I have both streamjet fertilizer nozzles, which I assume would be best for this application, and and a couple different broadcast nozzles.

Yes. Never tank spray that much potassium, it's a salt (with a fairly low salt index, but still). Spread it through a spreader and let rainfall carry it in, optimally at least a quarter of an inch or so.

>>>Minor Elements: Boron is extremely low. Copper is just so incredibly marginal that we're completely ignoring it (I am not arguing over 10 parts per billion). Iron is low, but the Milorganite will already help with that, hence the recommendation.
same spray question as the potassium sulfate, but this seems a bit more benign and easily soluble. Not

It's actually dangerous as hell when applied to a plant (and almost completely harmless to you). 5 PPM will render a soil toxic. Spraying it will kill a plant post-absorption. There's a reason we use the Micronutrient Application Guide and rainfall application, plus applying it using 20 Mule Team Borax (modest solubility 11% boron). Professionals on agricultural land use something else--but don't spray, it's soil-applied as well.

If I sound a bit harsh, it's because this is a real quick way to destroy a lawn, garden, shrubs...

You? You can eat the stuff, although I wouldn't. I've gotten it in my mouth and it tastes terrible. Animal life requires boron and doesn't over-absorb it via the digestive tract. It kills ants, though.

>>>that it is too pricey, but what chemical am I after if I go with a bulk product to do the whole larger lawn area? Same

One $4 box of 20 Mule Team Borax will do the entire lawn with tons left over; I just did my 10K lawn and 2K garden with the box from the laundry room (I use it in the wash and when I make laundry soap as I DIY the stuff).

Boron is a micro-element, not a major. We're making adjustments in the parts per million range here. In fact, less than the PPM range, really.

>>>sulfate and iron sulfate that I’ve sprayed a few times to green things up a bit prior to parties. Any benefits to doing this more often to help with the iron deficiency? I’ve also used one of the Lesco ferts with 2% iron if that’ll help on the larger lawn area

You can certainly use AS and FS and the two together (gently; they combine to form FAS, ferrous ammonium sulfate, which is an entirely different animal), which will color the grass but won't appreciably alter the soil. Milo, with 4% Fe and applied at higher rates, slowly changes the soil over the course of years.

>>>When growth stops: Winterize with any good synthetic high-nitrogen fertilizer.
if I continue with the standard nitrogen regimen do I reduce the urea amount for the milo added?

Reduce it by about 30%. Milo contains about 30% fast nitrogen, so if applying at the same time, that's around correct. At other times, don't reduce it at all. The slow tap of nitrogen from Milo won't interact much.

bpgreen
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Re: Wpstrassburg's first soil test

Post by bpgreen » April 16th, 2022, 11:49 pm

I noticed that you're in a homebrew club. And low on organic matter.

If you brew all grain or partial mash, spread the spent grains on the lawn. You can also ask the other brewers for their spent grains and spread them. They'll be glad to get rid of them.

You don't need to dry them out to spread them. Just let them cool and strew them around. I keep track of where I left off last brew day and continue from there. You also don't need to worry about getting them completely evenly spread. Just fling them around the lawn the way you do with UCG.


wpstrassburg
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Joined: July 13th, 2020, 11:02 am
Location: Macedon, NY
Grass Type: KBG, fecsue, rye mix
Lawn Size: 2 acre-5 acre
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Re: Wpstrassburg's first soil test

Post by wpstrassburg » April 18th, 2022, 11:31 am

@ MorpheusPA
No worries about sounding harsh, a dead lawn and my wife’s comments would be far worse….
I searched a bit and didn’t find anything, so glad I asked.

@ bpgreen
At our old house I would toss all my spent grain around the yard or into the compost bin. Just another reason to Bren more often!

wpstrassburg
Posts: 16
Joined: July 13th, 2020, 11:02 am
Location: Macedon, NY
Grass Type: KBG, fecsue, rye mix
Lawn Size: 2 acre-5 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Wpstrassburg's first soil test

Post by wpstrassburg » May 13th, 2022, 9:57 am

MorpheusPA wrote:
April 15th, 2022, 12:00 pm

Shopping List:

Potassium Sulfate 40 lbs (Online--Home Depot ships this to me, it's not cheap, other places also ship. Some landscape places have it, or will order it for you, more cheaply. I am not so lucky). If you get 50 and accidentally overapply a little...this is not a problem. :-)
Local fertilizer manufacturer has red and white potash. Sounds like the white is processed compared the raw red which has iron still in it. Any benefits getting the red for some additional fe or will the other salts in the red hurt me more?

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Re: Wpstrassburg's first soil test

Post by MorpheusPA » May 14th, 2022, 6:25 pm

Half the time the stuff I get is pink due to being half-processed. :-)

You should be able to ask what the contaminants are in the red.

wpstrassburg
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Joined: July 13th, 2020, 11:02 am
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Re: Wpstrassburg's first soil test

Post by wpstrassburg » May 17th, 2022, 9:28 pm

MorpheusPA wrote:
May 14th, 2022, 6:25 pm
Half the time the stuff I get is pink due to being half-processed. :-)

You should be able to ask what the contaminants are in the red.
They ended up only having the white bagged up and at $23/50# I grabbed four to do the whole lawn.
We finally got some decent rain yesterday and I managed to drop my milo and borax on 15ksf around the house.
Rushing between showers yesterday I forgot to add the borax to the regular fert I dropped on the rest of my 75ksf. Any harm combining the borax with the potash when I spread that or should I wail until my June application?

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MorpheusPA
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Re: Wpstrassburg's first soil test

Post by MorpheusPA » May 18th, 2022, 12:37 pm

If you can get the 5 tbsp of borax to stick evenly in the potash, go ahead. There's no chemical reaction between the two.

wpstrassburg
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Location: Macedon, NY
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Lawn Size: 2 acre-5 acre
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Re: Wpstrassburg's first soil test

Post by wpstrassburg » May 27th, 2022, 9:27 pm

Image

Image

Grabbing my next batch of fertilizer next week and since I’m not doing milo on the whole lawn would the 18-18-18 hydro or 18-24-12 pro starter be better for my areas away from the house? Will the extra p in the pro help my balance more so than the hydro?
In addition to potash they have a few other amendments available including iron. If I’m understanding correctly milo with 4% Fe equates to almost 2#/ksf. The 28-0-12 with 2% isn’t even 0.1#/ksf so quite the range if I’m calculating correctly. So would the 50# bag of 50% Fe cover anywhere from 12.5 to 250ksf? Recommend rate and frequency I should apply at?

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MorpheusPA
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Re: Wpstrassburg's first soil test

Post by MorpheusPA » May 28th, 2022, 11:04 am

I'd go with the 18-18-18.

For areas outside the house's immediate zone, I wouldn't necessarily worry about iron too much as it's not deficient, it's just a nice thing to have extra of. If you want to and can afford to do so, sure, go with the iron 50%, although I really want more data on what's in the bag before recommending an application rate. I'd need a chemical name like "ferrous sulfate monohydrate," "ferrous sulfate heptahydrate" and a percentage of the bag constituents "ferrous sulfate heptahydrate 50%, fillers 50%" and what the fillers are.

Because of iron's peculiar way of bonding, it won't be available in 50% of any chemical formula you'd apply to the lawn that would become available in a reasonable time. While iron oxide (rust) has 69.9% iron, it's tightly locked and requires high-energy bacterial processing to release it that doesn't happen easily or quickly in most soils because it simply doesn't have to.

(Now ask me about sulfur processing in alkaline soils because that's even worse).

wpstrassburg
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Joined: July 13th, 2020, 11:02 am
Location: Macedon, NY
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Lawn Size: 2 acre-5 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Wpstrassburg's first soil test

Post by wpstrassburg » June 6th, 2022, 11:14 pm

Iron Oxysulfate

They use it in their max green products for the 2%-4% they add to those.

I grabbed 2 bags of the iron as i have a section of side hill that never has as good a color as much of the other areas, but let me know your thoughts on how much and when it would be best to use throughout my larger lawn area.

Spec and msds links below

http://www.cameronchemicals.com/uploads ... _sheet.pdf

http://www.cameronchemicals.com/uploads ... us_sds.pdf


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MorpheusPA
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Re: Wpstrassburg's first soil test

Post by MorpheusPA » June 7th, 2022, 12:22 pm

Iron oxysulfate ain't a bad source, actually. Sure, go for it, but don't bother to overspend on the stuff. Iron is something you build slowly over time because...well, it takes a lot of mass to change the parts per million in the soil appreciably and you don't want to dump that much mass at once.

Don't expect any sudden greening changes from adding iron; it really doesn't happen that way. It's a slow change over time, as noted.

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