GermanShep's Soil Test - Spring 2022
-
- Posts: 22
- Joined: August 8th, 2021, 4:58 pm
- Location: Rochester, Minnesota
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 3000-5000
- Level: Experienced
GermanShep's Soil Test - Spring 2022
I have attached my most recent soil test results from Logan Labs and the soil test results that I had received from my first soil samples taken back on 08/31/21 for comparison purposes.
I do feel that my soil is going in the proper direction with the inputs that I have given it so far since last year. My lawn is from a new construction home build so really didn’t know what the soil itself would test
like after the construction was all done along with the final grading of the property. We did have KBG
sod installed from a good reputable sod farm in our area last Spring before moving into our home.
I knew that I would still have a lot of work ahead of me to improve my soil to have the showcase lawn I want.
I do have full irrigation available, and I am wanting to get advice from you folks on what I can do
to further improve my soil because I am a big believer in having good soil to support good grass. I mulch mow everything I can to get my OM higher and I do spray FAS to get a deeper green since the iron
is not very available due to my high pH coming from a very calcareous soil which my area of MN is known for. We have a lot of limestone and shale in my part of the state.
I do want to address everything in my soil including the micros, so I am asking for help with the information that I have provided. Thank you in advance for the guidance and help!
I do feel that my soil is going in the proper direction with the inputs that I have given it so far since last year. My lawn is from a new construction home build so really didn’t know what the soil itself would test
like after the construction was all done along with the final grading of the property. We did have KBG
sod installed from a good reputable sod farm in our area last Spring before moving into our home.
I knew that I would still have a lot of work ahead of me to improve my soil to have the showcase lawn I want.
I do have full irrigation available, and I am wanting to get advice from you folks on what I can do
to further improve my soil because I am a big believer in having good soil to support good grass. I mulch mow everything I can to get my OM higher and I do spray FAS to get a deeper green since the iron
is not very available due to my high pH coming from a very calcareous soil which my area of MN is known for. We have a lot of limestone and shale in my part of the state.
I do want to address everything in my soil including the micros, so I am asking for help with the information that I have provided. Thank you in advance for the guidance and help!
-
- Posts: 22
- Joined: August 8th, 2021, 4:58 pm
- Location: Rochester, Minnesota
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 3000-5000
- Level: Experienced
Re: GermanShep's Soil Test - Spring 2022
I am not sure if I posted a link properly or not because it has been quite a while and I do not believe my soil test has been looked at for
recommendations? I just want to make sure that I have not missed something?
recommendations? I just want to make sure that I have not missed something?
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18136
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: GermanShep's Soil Test - Spring 2022
I'm in the middle of Audit Week at work and doing lesser answers only; I'll get there!
-
- Posts: 22
- Joined: August 8th, 2021, 4:58 pm
- Location: Rochester, Minnesota
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 3000-5000
- Level: Experienced
Re: GermanShep's Soil Test - Spring 2022
MorpheusPA wrote: ↑June 15th, 2022, 4:55 pmI'm in the middle of Audit Week at work and doing lesser answers only; I'll get there!
Thank you so very much! I just wanted to make sure that I posted the link correctly. I will look forward to hearing the details when you have the time to review my report and give me suggestions. No worries on my part.
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18136
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: GermanShep's Soil Test - Spring 2022
Next week is Texas Audit Week, I hate to say... But fortunately, I don't have much to do with that.
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18136
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: GermanShep's Soil Test - Spring 2022
The Auditors have left me alone this morning. I always envision them as the Pratchett type, wearing smoky gray robes and looking for ways to unravel reality.
Your soil hasn't changed very much in the last year, which isn't terribly surprising given the inputs (which work slowly in this case). Phosphorus doesn't filter down quickly, so rising to 37 is actually a very good sign.
I can't locate your old thread, so I'm going to guess that Andy or I suggested a balanced fertilizer like 19-19-19, 20-20-20, or 10-10-10. If we didn't, I'm going to do so now just to make things cheaper this year due to supply issues.
If you have starter fertilizer on-hand and remaining potassium sulfate, combining the two (or applying them separately at the same time) is the same as a balanced fertilizer. Let me know.
I'm also going to recommend reading the Micronutrient Application Guide and laying in some Milorganite, at least enough to apply to your lawn at a minimal rate (you don't need to use a full app to lay down micronutrients; I tend to use 2 bags over 12,000 square feet grand total, grass and garden). However, if you do strip it down to that, accuracy is required; if you're uncertain, go with more bags because mistakes matter less.
You'll need copper sulfate powder (eBay or a pool store, call it...very close to 1 pound for the lawn if you have around 3000-4000 square feet, so you might dig into the second if you have more than that). Let's get some zinc sulfate powder as well (eBay on that; I think you're going to go into the second pound here). You'll also need 1 box of 20 Mule Team Borax from the grocery store. One box will be far more than enough.
I have a personal preference for Alpha Chemicals, but if you go with somebody else, just make sure it's fertilizer or laboratory grade (impurities will be minor [fertilizer] to nil [laboratory] and acceptable for a soil). Pool chemicals (copper sulfate) are completely fine.
Recommendations:
June: Apply 2 tablespoons copper sulfate, 3 tablespoons zinc sulfate, and 5 tablespoons 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet in Milorganite carrier as per the Micronutrient Application Guide. Irrigate in afterwards (or apply just before rainfall).
Mid to Late August: Apply 2 tablespoons copper sulfate, 3 tablespoons zinc sulfate, and 5 tablespoons 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet in Milorganite carrier as per the Micronutrient Application Guide. Irrigate in afterwards (or apply just before rainfall).
Labor Day or so: Feed the lawn with balanced (20-20-20 or other equally-numbered fertilizer at about 2/3 of the bag rate (or ask if there's no listed bag rate). There's a method to my madness here...I'm folding in a second feeding below. Irrigate if rainfall is not expected during the next three weeks; this is a critical period.
September 25: Feed the lawn with balanced (20-20-20 or other equally-numbered fertilizer at about 2/3 of the bag rate (or ask if there's no listed bag rate).
Very Late September to Very Early October: Apply 2 tablespoons copper sulfate, 3 tablespoons zinc sulfate, and 5 tablespoons 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet in Milorganite carrier as per the Micronutrient Application Guide. Irrigate in afterwards (or apply just before rainfall).
Memorial Day 2023: Feed the lawn with balanced (20-20-20 or other equally-numbered fertilizer at 100% of the bag rate.
Your soil hasn't changed very much in the last year, which isn't terribly surprising given the inputs (which work slowly in this case). Phosphorus doesn't filter down quickly, so rising to 37 is actually a very good sign.
I can't locate your old thread, so I'm going to guess that Andy or I suggested a balanced fertilizer like 19-19-19, 20-20-20, or 10-10-10. If we didn't, I'm going to do so now just to make things cheaper this year due to supply issues.
If you have starter fertilizer on-hand and remaining potassium sulfate, combining the two (or applying them separately at the same time) is the same as a balanced fertilizer. Let me know.
I'm also going to recommend reading the Micronutrient Application Guide and laying in some Milorganite, at least enough to apply to your lawn at a minimal rate (you don't need to use a full app to lay down micronutrients; I tend to use 2 bags over 12,000 square feet grand total, grass and garden). However, if you do strip it down to that, accuracy is required; if you're uncertain, go with more bags because mistakes matter less.
You'll need copper sulfate powder (eBay or a pool store, call it...very close to 1 pound for the lawn if you have around 3000-4000 square feet, so you might dig into the second if you have more than that). Let's get some zinc sulfate powder as well (eBay on that; I think you're going to go into the second pound here). You'll also need 1 box of 20 Mule Team Borax from the grocery store. One box will be far more than enough.
I have a personal preference for Alpha Chemicals, but if you go with somebody else, just make sure it's fertilizer or laboratory grade (impurities will be minor [fertilizer] to nil [laboratory] and acceptable for a soil). Pool chemicals (copper sulfate) are completely fine.
Recommendations:
June: Apply 2 tablespoons copper sulfate, 3 tablespoons zinc sulfate, and 5 tablespoons 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet in Milorganite carrier as per the Micronutrient Application Guide. Irrigate in afterwards (or apply just before rainfall).
Mid to Late August: Apply 2 tablespoons copper sulfate, 3 tablespoons zinc sulfate, and 5 tablespoons 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet in Milorganite carrier as per the Micronutrient Application Guide. Irrigate in afterwards (or apply just before rainfall).
Labor Day or so: Feed the lawn with balanced (20-20-20 or other equally-numbered fertilizer at about 2/3 of the bag rate (or ask if there's no listed bag rate). There's a method to my madness here...I'm folding in a second feeding below. Irrigate if rainfall is not expected during the next three weeks; this is a critical period.
September 25: Feed the lawn with balanced (20-20-20 or other equally-numbered fertilizer at about 2/3 of the bag rate (or ask if there's no listed bag rate).
Very Late September to Very Early October: Apply 2 tablespoons copper sulfate, 3 tablespoons zinc sulfate, and 5 tablespoons 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet in Milorganite carrier as per the Micronutrient Application Guide. Irrigate in afterwards (or apply just before rainfall).
Memorial Day 2023: Feed the lawn with balanced (20-20-20 or other equally-numbered fertilizer at 100% of the bag rate.
-
- Posts: 3873
- Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 2:28 am
- Location: Utah (Wasatch Front)
- Grass Type: Western, Streambank, Crested wheatgrass in front (with blue grama added in the heckstrips), sheep fescue in back; strawberry clovetr in both
- Lawn Size: 3000-5000
- Level: Experienced
Re: GermanShep's Soil Test - Spring 2022
Completely off topic and it may not be the same kind of auditors, but this reminds me of something and I can't resist sharing the story.MorpheusPA wrote: ↑June 16th, 2022, 9:55 amThe Auditors have left me alone this morning. I always envision them as the Pratchett type, wearing smoky gray robes and looking for ways to unravel reality.
Years ago, I saw some maintenance folks working in a closet. It looked like they were putting in a desk with chairs on either side of it. To get to the one in the back, the person with that chair would need to crawl under the desk or pull the desk out and then replace it once they got in their chair..
I asked if they seriously intended that to be used as an office. They kind of shrugged and said something along the lines of, "They told us to clear this out and put in a desk and 2 chairs. We cleared it out and put in a dessk and 2 chairs."
The next day, I saw a couple of guys in there working away. I commented on the size of the "office" and they said something lik, "This is actually pretty good. We're with the IRS. Companies don't *want* us to stay very long, so they make things uncomfortable for us."
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18136
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: GermanShep's Soil Test - Spring 2022
Same concept. Pratchett's Auditors were Auditors of reality, assuring that gravity and the other forces worked the way they were supposed to. They found life...messy, with its ideas of justice and love and art. So they figured the universe would be better off without it.
-
- Posts: 22
- Joined: August 8th, 2021, 4:58 pm
- Location: Rochester, Minnesota
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 3000-5000
- Level: Experienced
Re: GermanShep's Soil Test - Spring 2022
I placed my order for the micro nutrients yesterday from Alpha Chemicals and they had very reasonable pricing. On last Falls soil test, Andy had indicated that I should use a balanced 10-10-10 fertilizer so it seems like that is going to be the same recommendation this year. I may try to find a balanced 20-20-20 if the pricing is good just to get more P and K into my soil than the 10-10-10 will do. What numbers of P and K would you like to see on my report and I ask this so I have a future target in mind? Last year's test showed a lot of calcium in my soil which I knew was coming along with the high pH, that is the curse I must live with in MN soils. Does my high calcium indicate a deficiency in P and K which may be not really be there? I do spray FAS apps to my lawn to get more color snap and that has been going very well so far. I had an unexplained yellowing of my grass about a month ago which I posted about but I beleive that happened due to a screw up by a lawn service that many of my neighbors use so the lawn service comes through and often hits everyone's yard in the same day unless lawns such as mine are not to be touched. I think that I got way to my nitrogen and maybe something else because the lawn service came through the very next day after I applied 1 lbs per K to my lawn of nitrogen and who knows what they put down the very next day? My lawn has recovered and is back on track since the mix up.
It seems like you are recommending a lot of the micros so my soil must really be deficient in those and I was really suprised by how much borax I need becuase I know that to much of that can be really toxic so the amount suprised me, I do put full faith in you to point me in the right direction.
What will the micros help do for my lawn and will I see more improvement after getting those levels up to where they need to be? I plan on getting those applied as soon as they arrive via snail mail so I hope the get here before the July heat. Is there a temperature limit that I should avoid putting micros down with the Milo? They are predicting severe heat here in MN to finish out June-temps in the 90's with heat index over 100. I also usually do
not apply anything including Milo the entire month of July here because of the Summer heat stress. Is it good to not do anything in July or can I still drop plain old Milo if I feel the need? I will follow your directions to the tee and hit my dates exactly as you have recommended.
Thank you!!
It seems like you are recommending a lot of the micros so my soil must really be deficient in those and I was really suprised by how much borax I need becuase I know that to much of that can be really toxic so the amount suprised me, I do put full faith in you to point me in the right direction.
What will the micros help do for my lawn and will I see more improvement after getting those levels up to where they need to be? I plan on getting those applied as soon as they arrive via snail mail so I hope the get here before the July heat. Is there a temperature limit that I should avoid putting micros down with the Milo? They are predicting severe heat here in MN to finish out June-temps in the 90's with heat index over 100. I also usually do
not apply anything including Milo the entire month of July here because of the Summer heat stress. Is it good to not do anything in July or can I still drop plain old Milo if I feel the need? I will follow your directions to the tee and hit my dates exactly as you have recommended.
Thank you!!
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18136
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: GermanShep's Soil Test - Spring 2022
Interestingly, app rates on 20-20-20 will be half (5 pounds per thousand) as for 10-10-10 (10 pounds per thousand) for the same target of 1 pound per thousand of nitrogen, P, and K. More isn't necessarily bad, but grasses tend to object.
My target for P on this particular lawn is around 350, due to the very high pH. Release of P to the soil solution is going to be extremely limited, so we go high. Note that your current front lawn is at 14, or less than five percent of the target. That's...bad. On the up side, every time you apply the balanced fertilizer, the grass has an opportunity to grab phosphorus before it binds to the soil.
For K, I'm looking to add about 3 pounds elemental K per thousand square feet--which does not mean applying 3 pounds per thousand square feet or we'd be done this season. Your soil doesn't bind resources well, being sandy, the P in the fertilizer is usually potassium chloride, which isn't pure potassium (about half, actually). It also washes out, gets used, gets dispelled by other ions, and so on. I just had to add two pounds of potassium sulfate per thousand.
Your boron levels are from meh to abysmal. Again, it's going to wash right through, so although 15 tablespoons sounds like a lot (it really isn't), not much of that will stick. 20 Mules is also 11% boron by mass (boron being very light), so we're really only adding about 1.5 tablespoons of boron per thousand square feet. Boron's availability is also by pH, and as high as yours is, I'm also adjusting to a higher level than I would otherwise.
The same is true with both copper and zinc. Copper's just marginal and zinc is a bit low.
Will you see a significant difference from minors? ... That depends. Probably not, but it depends on your eye and powers of observation.
While I don't recommend July feeding for the lawn, you can apply micros with minimal Milo and irrigate them in afterwards with at least a quarter inch of water (or just do it before a rainfall is expected). I can manage the lawn on about 3 buckets of Milo with the micros mixed in, set very low on the spreader, but you may have to make a couple passes to get all the micros down. Of all the things you could apply in July, Milo's going to cause the least problem.
My target for P on this particular lawn is around 350, due to the very high pH. Release of P to the soil solution is going to be extremely limited, so we go high. Note that your current front lawn is at 14, or less than five percent of the target. That's...bad. On the up side, every time you apply the balanced fertilizer, the grass has an opportunity to grab phosphorus before it binds to the soil.
For K, I'm looking to add about 3 pounds elemental K per thousand square feet--which does not mean applying 3 pounds per thousand square feet or we'd be done this season. Your soil doesn't bind resources well, being sandy, the P in the fertilizer is usually potassium chloride, which isn't pure potassium (about half, actually). It also washes out, gets used, gets dispelled by other ions, and so on. I just had to add two pounds of potassium sulfate per thousand.
Your boron levels are from meh to abysmal. Again, it's going to wash right through, so although 15 tablespoons sounds like a lot (it really isn't), not much of that will stick. 20 Mules is also 11% boron by mass (boron being very light), so we're really only adding about 1.5 tablespoons of boron per thousand square feet. Boron's availability is also by pH, and as high as yours is, I'm also adjusting to a higher level than I would otherwise.
The same is true with both copper and zinc. Copper's just marginal and zinc is a bit low.
Will you see a significant difference from minors? ... That depends. Probably not, but it depends on your eye and powers of observation.
While I don't recommend July feeding for the lawn, you can apply micros with minimal Milo and irrigate them in afterwards with at least a quarter inch of water (or just do it before a rainfall is expected). I can manage the lawn on about 3 buckets of Milo with the micros mixed in, set very low on the spreader, but you may have to make a couple passes to get all the micros down. Of all the things you could apply in July, Milo's going to cause the least problem.
-
- Posts: 22
- Joined: August 8th, 2021, 4:58 pm
- Location: Rochester, Minnesota
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 3000-5000
- Level: Experienced
Re: GermanShep's Soil Test - Spring 2022
I did pickup several bags of 10-10-10 fertilizer this weekend. Bag weight is 20 lbs and there is no appliation rate or coverage rate listed on the bag. I will follow the recommendations with the use of this balanced fertilizer. I do have the micros coming from Alpha Chemicals and I also have the 20 mule borax on hand now. I will apply all the micros asap with the use of Milo as the carrier. I do also plan on dropping Milo the month of August and throughout this Fall to keep feeding the lawn as my goal is to thicken up my lawn more yet.
Will the balanced 10-10-10 give me enough N this Fall to thicken my lawn? I am sure that you have your reasons for the balanced ferilizer plan once again however I just feel like maybe I should be using some starter fertilzer also to give me a higher dose of P and K which I need in my soil.
Will the balanced 10-10-10 give me enough N this Fall to thicken my lawn? I am sure that you have your reasons for the balanced ferilizer plan once again however I just feel like maybe I should be using some starter fertilzer also to give me a higher dose of P and K which I need in my soil.
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18136
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: GermanShep's Soil Test - Spring 2022
For 10-10-10, the application rate is, conveniently enough, 10 pounds per thousand square feet to target 1 pound of nitrogen, 1 pound of potassium, and 1 pound of phosphorus per thousand square feet per application.
Most starter fertilizers get close to balancing nitrogen and phosphorus, but are desperately short on potassium. So those actually won't work as well. Milorganite has more nitrogen than phosphorus, with very little potassium, but I have no trouble with you dropping that in addition to the 10-10-10 as long as there's a good rainfall or two between them in fall. The grass will be fine with it, it'll add extra phosphorus (which you can certainly use), and the organic nitrogen won't hurt either.
Most starter fertilizers get close to balancing nitrogen and phosphorus, but are desperately short on potassium. So those actually won't work as well. Milorganite has more nitrogen than phosphorus, with very little potassium, but I have no trouble with you dropping that in addition to the 10-10-10 as long as there's a good rainfall or two between them in fall. The grass will be fine with it, it'll add extra phosphorus (which you can certainly use), and the organic nitrogen won't hurt either.
-
- Posts: 22
- Joined: August 8th, 2021, 4:58 pm
- Location: Rochester, Minnesota
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 3000-5000
- Level: Experienced
Re: GermanShep's Soil Test - Spring 2022
Thank you for the time Morph! It is much appreciated and I will keep updating this thread after I get my micros down and so on.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests