Roundup (Glyophosphate) and Hard Water

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andy10917
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Roundup (Glyophosphate) and Hard Water

Post by andy10917 » March 6th, 2009, 12:10 pm

While researching another subject, I bumped into an article here that discussed the fact (on page 4) that when glyophosphate (Roundup and generics) is mixed with water that contains a lot of calcium and magnesium ("hard water"), that the glyophosphate gets bound to the calcium and magnesium and is less effective. For those of us in hard-water areas, it would seem to me that for spot-treatments we could use softened water (the small amount of sodium salts with a single treatment isn't going to hurt anything), but for a larger pre-seeding kill with lots of water it could be another story. It also said that the same thing can occur if there is silt or organic material in the water. Does anyone have any experience with this, or workarounds if you know of it?

eriocaulon
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Re: Roundup (Glyophosphate) and Hard Water

Post by eriocaulon » March 6th, 2009, 4:20 pm

I wonder if this is the reason why some have reported that the pre-mixed "ready to spray" RoundUp is faster acting/more effective than the concentrate that you have to dilute yourself. I have hard water but didn't notice any lack of kill using roundup concentrate. I guess it wouldn't be bad to get jugs of distilled water just to make sure you get your moneys worth.

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Dchall_San_Antonio
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Re: Roundup (Glyophosphate) and Hard Water

Post by Dchall_San_Antonio » March 6th, 2009, 5:28 pm

eriocaulon wrote:I wonder if this is the reason why some have reported that the pre-mixed "ready to spray" RoundUp is faster acting/more effective than the concentrate that you have to dilute yourself. I have hard water but didn't notice any lack of kill using roundup concentrate.
Where I grew up we had hard water. Round-Up had just come out and my dad decided to get a gallon (at $70/gallon when bread was $0.15/loaf). We never could get it to work. Maybe that is why.

texasweed

Re: Roundup (Glyophosphate) and Hard Water

Post by texasweed » March 6th, 2009, 8:24 pm

Add a surfactant aka dishsoap.

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andy10917
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Re: Roundup (Glyophosphate) and Hard Water

Post by andy10917 » March 6th, 2009, 8:55 pm

TW:

That actually might work. Soaps work poorly in hard water because the soap reacts with the calcium and magnesium, making soap scum. I don't know whether that would keep the glyophosphate from reacting with the calcium and magnesium or not, but it's interesting. Where did you get that from?


GaryCinChicago
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Re: Roundup (Glyophosphate) and Hard Water

Post by GaryCinChicago » March 6th, 2009, 10:24 pm

andy10917 wrote:TW: Where did you get that from?
I know it is in the Boy Scout handbook, LOL.

Soup is nothing more than a surfactant. Worthless without water/moisture. It is the water the cleanses, soap just makes the water efficient.

texasweed

Re: Roundup (Glyophosphate) and Hard Water

Post by texasweed » March 7th, 2009, 8:52 am

andy10917 wrote:TW: Where did you get that from?
One of those things you learn from operating a sod farm and landscape company, and on the RU pro products its in the instructions.:good:

texasweed

Re: Roundup (Glyophosphate) and Hard Water

Post by texasweed » March 7th, 2009, 9:02 am

GaryCinChicago wrote:
andy10917 wrote:TW: Where did you get that from?


Soup is nothing more than a surfactant. Worthless without water/moisture. It is the water the cleanses, soap just makes the water efficient.
Yes but it does one other thing most do not think about, it removes or cuts through the protective waxes of some plants and grasses and allows the product to enter the leaves systemically making it more effective.



FWIW use the milder brands of brands of soaps like Joy or Dove as they do not contain alcohol or anti-bacteria agents found in some other products like Dawn. And if you want to make things smell good and drive bugs away (won't kill them) use a lemon scented soap, or a few drops of lemon scented ammonia.

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