New lawn w/ issues

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andy10917
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by andy10917 » May 19th, 2009, 10:08 pm

Swampdonkey:

Sorry I took so long to get back to you. They say bad luck comes in threes. Last night the central pump on my 135g aquarium failed. This morning we had a power hit, and it fried the main Router on the home network. So this evening I go to get a new Router, and as I back up the car, I backed into the handles of the wheelbarrow, denting my beloved RX-8 in two places. ARRRGGGHHH!!!

Oh well, back to grass. Now that I get to see the micronutrients, I seriously doubt that the test patch is going to work. You're deficient in Copper, Zinc and Boron - enough to cause problems like what you've got.

Normally, I send people out on "scavenger hunts" to find household items that contain the substances they're going to need. You're an exception - it would probably be easier and cheaper to get what you need on EBay.

You're going to need:

- Boric Acid
- Copper Sulfate
- Zinc Sulfate

I found at least one site that had all three. You'll probably have to buy a pound of each - I don't think anyone sells less than that.

When you've got them, let me know. I'll give you the amounts of each to mix in with a couple of bags of Milorganite. If you want to know what you're about to go through, see the topic KOG's Soil Test Results.

By the way, sooner is better than later - the hot weather will be here soon.

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MorpheusPA
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by MorpheusPA » May 19th, 2009, 11:22 pm

Alternately, copper sulfate is sold as algae control in a lot of aquarium and pond stores, plus as root killer (but make sure it has nothing but copper sulfate in it!). Boric acid can be 20 Mule Team Borax, probably from your grocery store, or Boraxo, from your grocery or drug store.

Zinc sulfate is harder, however. It's probably easier, if not cheaper, to just order 'em all.

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andy10917
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by andy10917 » May 19th, 2009, 11:44 pm

I was not in the mood to send him off on a scavenger hunt for "ROOTO", "20 Mule Team Laundry Soap" and a bag of Goslarite.

Unforfunately, Swampdonkey won't have those spiffy shirts though that KOG and PJD have...

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swampdonkey
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by swampdonkey » May 20th, 2009, 11:04 am

I've ordered the three items via Ebay and will update when they arrive. Since I just spread some Milorganite (nearly two weeks ago) will there be any issue putting down more w/ the micronutrients?

Also, I was considering a herbicide to help control the spread of weeds. This weekend will be the two week mark since I put down the fertilizer. It sounded like broadleaf weed killer (2,4D) would do the trick. First, will this adversely effect the upcoming micronutrient treatment, and if not, are most broadleaf weed killers created the same or are some recommended over others?

Andy: My best wishes for a speedy recovery of your RX-8.
andy10917 wrote:Unforfunately, Swampdonkey won't have those spiffy shirts though that KOG and PJD have...

There has to be a story here...

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andy10917
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by andy10917 » May 20th, 2009, 1:28 pm

Since I just spread some Milorganite (nearly two weeks ago) will there be any issue putting down more w/ the micronutrients?
I throw a couple of bags of Milorganite down on the lawn almost every week, since it has deer-repellent properties. I took a few weeks off from the Milorganite so I could assess the value of my latest deer repellent formula on Hostas.
So, short of burying the lawn so that no light gets in, you'd have trouble putting down too much Milorganite.
It sounded like broadleaf weed killer (2,4D) would do the trick. First, will this adversely effect the upcoming micronutrient treatment, and if not, are most broadleaf weed killers created the same or are some recommended over others?
I disagree with those that say 2,4-D will put a world of hurt on those weeds. Clover and Black Medic don't knuckle under to 2,4-D unless you hit them a ton of times. I would do a 2,4-D/Triclopyr cocktail that brings at least 8% Triclopyr to the party.
There has to be a story here...
Yes. They each had to buy like a 5 lb box of 20 Mule Team Laundry Detergent, for the Boron. They used about 7 tablespoons of the product on their lawns. When asked what they should do with the rest of it, we recommended making their shirts brilliantly white.


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MorpheusPA
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by MorpheusPA » May 20th, 2009, 2:29 pm

Same here. I have the brightest white laundry I've ever seen, and the colors are brilliant, too. Plus the lawn has the requisite amount of boron. Actually, we can add my parents to the T-Shirt Club too. Mom bought the 20 Mule Team Borax after I told her not to (she wanted it for the laundry since my clothes are now cheery and bright), and I applied it yesterday at 1 tbsp per thousand.

She swears the lawn is already greener. I suppose that's possible; I put down soil conditioner, too.

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swampdonkey
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by swampdonkey » May 20th, 2009, 8:24 pm

andy10917 wrote:
Clover and Black Medic don't knuckle under to 2,4-D unless you hit them a ton of times. I would do a 2,4-D/Triclopyr cocktail that brings at least 8% Triclopyr to the party.
I just want to clarify and learn so permit me a question or two. If I read this correctly, your suggestion is a two product solution that is mixed and applied together? If so, I should find a 2,4-D product, like Bayer All-In-One Weed Killer for Lawns, and a similar product that has Triclopyr and put both down...or can you purchase the active ingredient as a concentrate and mix them?

bpgreen
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by bpgreen » May 20th, 2009, 8:48 pm

I think he's recommending a product that contains both 2,4D and triclopyr.

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andy10917
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by andy10917 » May 20th, 2009, 9:37 pm

Well, you're both partially correct. Ortho actually documents the combination of WBG Max and Ortho Chickweed/Clover/Oxalis Killer in the literature on the WBG Max bottle. The Bayer Advanced product contains no Triclopyr and can be safely mixed with the Chickweed/Clover/Oxalis Killer - full-strength both products in the same hose-end batch. So can the WBG Max. Just make sure that the end-product contains 8%+ Triclopyr.

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andy10917
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by andy10917 » May 22nd, 2009, 4:33 pm

Hey, SD....

What was the final result on the Test Patch? I'm betting it was very little progress since we got the micronutrient data after we had committed to the Test Patch, but just wanted to check and see....

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swampdonkey
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by swampdonkey » May 22nd, 2009, 6:13 pm

andy10917 wrote:What was the final result on the Test Patch? I'm betting it was very little progress since we got the micronutrient data after we had committed to the Test Patch, but just wanted to check and see....
I've been watering it as outlined however there has not been any major change between the test area and the grass around it.

The Copper, Zinc and Boron have been shipped. It'll likely be a week before those show up but I'll let you guys now when they reach me.

I am heading out today or tomorrow to search for herbicides and made mental notes regarding your comments on combining products and ensuring 8%+ Triclopyr.

Hope everyone has an enjoyable long weekend!

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swampdonkey
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by swampdonkey » May 23rd, 2009, 6:06 pm

andy10917 wrote:Well, you're both partially correct. Ortho actually documents the combination of WBG Max and Ortho Chickweed/Clover/Oxalis Killer in the literature on the WBG Max bottle. The Bayer Advanced product contains no Triclopyr and can be safely mixed with the Chickweed/Clover/Oxalis Killer - full-strength both products in the same hose-end batch. So can the WBG Max. Just make sure that the end-product contains 8%+ Triclopyr.
Before I make a noob mistake, better to pose this question first. My local hardware store had both the Ortho Chickweed/Clover/Oxalis (Triclopyr) and the Bayer Advanced. Since my hose-end sprayer doesn't hold that much, I went ahead and sprayed the lawn w/ the Bayer as recommended. I was just about to do the same w/ the Ortho product but wanted to make sure that I was not going about this wrong. Do both get sprayed at full strength or will this be in essence, putting a double batch of weed killer on the lawn? See any issues??

Thanks!

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andy10917
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by andy10917 » May 24th, 2009, 11:00 am

Well, I was trying to save you a second trip around the yard by saying "in the same hose-end batch", but you're OK.

The ingredients in the Bayer Advanced product and the Ortho Chickweed/Clover/Oxalis product have NO overlaps, so there is no "doubling up" of anything. They effectively go after different weeds. The Bayer product will nail dandelions, plantains, and lots of other weeds, but only marginally hurts clover and chickweed. The 8% Triclopyr in the CCO Killer targets the clover, oxalis, chickweed, wild violets, black medic and ground ivy. There is a slight overlap with the WBG Max product (it has 1.5% Triclopyr) mixed with CCO Killer, but I've never seen damage from the total 9.5% Triclopyr.

Get out there and nail those weeds with the CCO Killer !!!

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swampdonkey
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by swampdonkey » May 24th, 2009, 8:08 pm

Thanks, Andy, for alleviating my concern over the herbicide. I've sprayed both now. I suspect that life in the Clover Household is not going so hot tonight. :sick:

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swampdonkey
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by swampdonkey » May 26th, 2009, 10:49 am

Update on the test area that had the ammonia, dish washing soap, and Epsom salts: The rest of the lawn has shown a marked improvement, and by that I simply state that there is less yellow and much more green, where as the test area is seemingly heading more towards yellow than green as of late.

The Boric Acid, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate will hopefully arrive this week from the Ebay seller.

-Scott-

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swampdonkey
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by swampdonkey » June 1st, 2009, 3:49 pm

Update

Still waiting for the Boric Acid, Copper Sulfate, and Zinc Sulfate to arrive from the Ebay seller. It's nearing two weeks since purchase. :banghead:

Lawn has improved a good deal since starting this thread a few weeks back, though the double application of herbicide has not caused the demise of the weeds to the level I'd hoped. I have the Milorganite ready to put down once the Ebay items arrive and I receive the mixture quantities from Andy.

-Scott-

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PJD
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by PJD » June 1st, 2009, 11:45 pm

andy10917 wrote:I was not in the mood to send him off on a scavenger hunt for "ROOTO", "20 Mule Team Laundry Soap" and a bag of Goslarite.

Unforfunately, Swampdonkey won't have those spiffy shirts though that KOG and PJD have...
swampdonkey wrote: There has to be a story here...
andy10917 wrote: Yes. They each had to buy like a 5 lb box of 20 Mule Team Laundry Detergent, for the Boron. They used about 7 tablespoons of the product on their lawns. When asked what they should do with the rest of it, we recommended making their shirts brilliantly white.

Yes and might I add that I had to go to 5 stores to find the 20 Mule Team Borax!

You want to know what the really funny thing is? Andy recommended I go organic in my lawn but my girlfriend has been using organic laundry detergent for a long time, I don't know if she'll even allow me to use the 20 Mule team Borax!

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MorpheusPA
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by MorpheusPA » June 2nd, 2009, 7:59 am

Fortunately, that's a mined material and pretty harmless in the correct amount. Technically, I'd call it a natural additive. :-)

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swampdonkey
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by swampdonkey » June 2nd, 2009, 4:48 pm

Looks like the chemicals have finally arrived, according to an email from the USPS I just received.

Is the chemist in?

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andy10917
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Re: New lawn w/ issues

Post by andy10917 » June 2nd, 2009, 4:52 pm

Maybe - depends on who's asking.

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