Dry Spot Experiment
- NiciPicki
- Posts: 1494
- Joined: April 6th, 2012, 1:15 pm
- Location: Columbus, OH
- Grass Type: Elite KBG: Award, Moonbeam, Prosperity
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Re: Dry Spot Experiment
I did use the hose end sprayer. I'm sure from the neighbor's driveway it looked like I was standing there watering the lawn with the hose after the storm.
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- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: Dry Spot Experiment
You crazy, gurrrl. Yes, it's fantastically tedious--it took me about 1.5 hours to do 10 K and it's pretty boring...NiciPicki wrote:I used 112 ounces over 7.5k, all told. The back yard was really fast because that was the light app. The front yard is when I began wondering if the neighbor is right, and maybe I really am crazy.
- bernstem
- Posts: 4232
- Joined: April 15th, 2011, 2:59 pm
- Location: St. Louis, MO
- Grass Type: Front: Solar Eclipse/Award/Bewitched/Moonlight SLT/Prosperity Back: Solar Eclipse Monostand + Bewitched (shade)
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
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Re: Dry Spot Experiment
A heavy dose of soil conditioner is on my list for tomorrow. It definitely seems to help in the heat. The lawn needs water, so I'll get up early, apply the soap and then water it in. I did top dress the front with 200lbs of compost and 4 bales of peat moss on Sunday which seems to have helped with surviving the heat.
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
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Re: Dry Spot Experiment
The dry spots are performing so beautifully (they look fantastic in really awful weather) that I expanded the experiment again. To the whole lawn, but at a lower rate.
I've sprayed 22 ounces per thousand Xtra laundry detergent over the entire thing (I could get that cheap and I found one with no boron [or other whiteners] in it). 150+ ounces of Xtra is $6 at my grocery store, ultra-concentrated, and doesn't require re-mixing gallons of conditioner, a requirement for today as I was short on time. I filled in with Dawn by mixing 10 ounces into each sprayer load with some water to thin the solution.
The lawn was actually improving behind my spray--the very soapy water clung to the grass blades and they regained their green color in an hour. I irrigated for ten minutes per zone behind myself to dilute it down and push it to the soil, and I'm doing a full irrigation now to prep for the evening of the Fourth (which includes plenty of small neighborhood fireworks I'd rather not start a grass fire).
I've sprayed 22 ounces per thousand Xtra laundry detergent over the entire thing (I could get that cheap and I found one with no boron [or other whiteners] in it). 150+ ounces of Xtra is $6 at my grocery store, ultra-concentrated, and doesn't require re-mixing gallons of conditioner, a requirement for today as I was short on time. I filled in with Dawn by mixing 10 ounces into each sprayer load with some water to thin the solution.
The lawn was actually improving behind my spray--the very soapy water clung to the grass blades and they regained their green color in an hour. I irrigated for ten minutes per zone behind myself to dilute it down and push it to the soil, and I'm doing a full irrigation now to prep for the evening of the Fourth (which includes plenty of small neighborhood fireworks I'd rather not start a grass fire).
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- Posts: 3226
- Joined: March 6th, 2011, 7:27 pm
- Location: frederick,maryland
- Grass Type: COCHISE IV,FALCON V,FAITH TTTF + KBG
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Re: Dry Spot Experiment
Does that much soap send the worms scrambling?
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: Dry Spot Experiment
They don't seem to notice.HanLawn wrote:Does that much soap send the worms scrambling?
Actually, if you do the math, that's 0.022 ounces per square foot, diluted initially in the hose end and then irrigated with 0.6 gallons of water. 0.022 ounces in 77 ounces of water is a 0.03% solution all told.
You could drink that and never know there was soap in it. Maybe a slight aftertaste, but it wouldn't make you feel at all ill even if you downed a gallon of it.
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- Posts: 3226
- Joined: March 6th, 2011, 7:27 pm
- Location: frederick,maryland
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Re: Dry Spot Experiment
I ask, because in the Spring,after every rain, I saw dozens of worms craw onto the patio....now? None.
I wonder if the shampoo is contributing to that, or maybe they dont like the acidic peatmoss topdressing,or whether it is something else? Where did they go? I have used zero insecticides,fungicides,etc. Just one app of Dimension way back in mid March,2 drops of horse pellets,and 1 app of Milorganite along with the micros and P & K additions so far this entire year.
I wonder if the shampoo is contributing to that, or maybe they dont like the acidic peatmoss topdressing,or whether it is something else? Where did they go? I have used zero insecticides,fungicides,etc. Just one app of Dimension way back in mid March,2 drops of horse pellets,and 1 app of Milorganite along with the micros and P & K additions so far this entire year.
- Joe'sCentipede
- Posts: 366
- Joined: December 5th, 2011, 4:54 pm
- Location: Las Vegas, NV
- Grass Type: Prestige Buffalo Grass
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
Re: Dry Spot Experiment
Have you not encountered them while digging in the soil? If your soil's draining better now, they may not have flooded burrows to crawl out of.HanLawn wrote:I ask, because in the Spring,after every rain, I saw dozens of worms craw onto the patio....now? None.
I wonder if the shampoo is contributing to that, or maybe they dont like the acidic peatmoss topdressing,or whether it is something else? Where did they go? I have used zero insecticides,fungicides,etc. Just one app of Dimension way back in mid March,2 drops of horse pellets,and 1 app of Milorganite along with the micros and P & K additions so far this entire year.
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- Posts: 3226
- Joined: March 6th, 2011, 7:27 pm
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- Grass Type: COCHISE IV,FALCON V,FAITH TTTF + KBG
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Re: Dry Spot Experiment
I have not dug into the soil at all.
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
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Re: Dry Spot Experiment
+1 Joe. Mine used to be all over the driveway and patio during rains. Now, not so much. There are still worms choosing to travel and find new homes during rains, but not the numbers I saw before.
Digging in the garden is an exercise in moving worms, so it's not a population shortage (if anything, populations are extremely large). It's just that the burrows don't flood and the worms don't have to head for high ground any longer.
Digging in the garden is an exercise in moving worms, so it's not a population shortage (if anything, populations are extremely large). It's just that the burrows don't flood and the worms don't have to head for high ground any longer.
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- Posts: 1188
- Joined: August 28th, 2009, 1:00 am
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Re: Dry Spot Experiment
Why did you choose not to use SLS & yucca for the experiment?
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- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
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Re: Dry Spot Experiment
It started that I had the Dawn with me when washing the windows. Which then led to being short of time on Tuesday and just grabbing some Xtra detergent to do it. So no reason, really, just a series of accidents.
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- Posts: 4179
- Joined: May 22nd, 2012, 9:24 am
- Location: Southeast MA
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Re: Dry Spot Experiment
Any reason you didn't put down Kelp Help also? I got some trouble areas too that I hit today with a heavy (not nearly as heavy as yours) dose of Kelp and Shampoo. It'll get hit again hard(er) in 2 weeks also, just wondering if I should do just shampoo or keep up with heavy-ish Kelp.
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
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Re: Dry Spot Experiment
I dropped Kelp Help on the first of July across the entire lawn, actually, at a fairly heavy rate. It's great stuff, I love it, but it doesn't have much effect on dry spot or stressed areas of the lawn--not at any great rate of speed, anyway!
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- Posts: 218
- Joined: April 27th, 2012, 6:40 pm
- Location: Alabama
- Grass Type: Bermuda
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Re: Dry Spot Experiment
Hey morph, would you recommend this on Bermuda lawns if so what app would you do it at. Its getting hot here almost 100 everyday. Got some dry spots around pine trees.
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- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: Dry Spot Experiment
I dunno. I can't imagine that Bermuda is that much different than KBG, although your temperatures are warmer (today was 94, tomorrow 99). Perhaps try one test spot first?
- GeorgiaDad
- Posts: 2163
- Joined: July 13th, 2011, 2:32 pm
- Location: Suwanee, Ga.
- Grass Type: Frontyard: Award, NuChicago, Midnight. kbg Backyard: Mutt Fescue with a little Midnight kbg thrown in.
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
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Re: Dry Spot Experiment
Picked up 160lbs of the equestrian horse pellets. Dropped them over 5.5/k of grass. I went a little lighter in the shade that looks good. A little heavier in the harder hit areas. I am hoping it rains tonight so I don't have to water in. Debating on whether to spray the Dawn late this afternoon or wait til Monday. Will be too busy next 2 days.
I went by the local woodshop. They do not deal in anything treated. But the draw back was he said the sawdust was 50-50 hardwood/softwood. So off to Tractor Supply. Found the horse pellets. I think I made the right choice. Pellets were easy to spread vs. sawdust.
I had my 16yr old son help me spread the pellets. We were walking the yard talking and he asked what this was supposed to do. I explained about the water retention and om. But then he asked what we were spreading. I said Equestrian horse pellets. He stopped, looked at me and said "Who the h*** has the time to figure out all this wacky crap you put down on the lawn? I mean really dad, who thinks hmmm I think I'll spray milk on the lawn and see what it does. Wow that works lets try molasses and shampoo". I just about rolled across the lawn.
I went by the local woodshop. They do not deal in anything treated. But the draw back was he said the sawdust was 50-50 hardwood/softwood. So off to Tractor Supply. Found the horse pellets. I think I made the right choice. Pellets were easy to spread vs. sawdust.
I had my 16yr old son help me spread the pellets. We were walking the yard talking and he asked what this was supposed to do. I explained about the water retention and om. But then he asked what we were spreading. I said Equestrian horse pellets. He stopped, looked at me and said "Who the h*** has the time to figure out all this wacky crap you put down on the lawn? I mean really dad, who thinks hmmm I think I'll spray milk on the lawn and see what it does. Wow that works lets try molasses and shampoo". I just about rolled across the lawn.
- andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Dry Spot Experiment
Please don't tell me that you walked away from free sawdust. I'd have to travel all the way to Suwanee just to kick you in the a$$.But the draw back was he said the sawdust was 50-50 hardwood/softwood.
Me, for one. But not really - some of it is common-sense ("why would I throw this sawdust away?") and then when it worked well, I ran out of sawdust. Most is bumping into other peoples' discoveries. The "milk idea" was from a farmer that dumped milk that he couldn't sell onto his pastureland, and found "hey, the grass grows better there!".He stopped, looked at me and said "Who the h*** has the time to figure out all this wacky crap you put down on the lawn?
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
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Re: Dry Spot Experiment
Good rate--as of today that's about half total what I dropped, a quarter my rate on the south face, and a twentieth the rate of my problem areas.GeorgiaDad wrote:Picked up 160lbs of the equestrian horse pellets. Dropped them over 5.5/k of grass. I went a little lighter in the shade that looks good. A little heavier in the harder hit areas. I am hoping it rains tonight so I don't have to water in. Debating on whether to spray the Dawn late this afternoon or wait til Monday. Will be too busy next 2 days.
Yes, for those of you doing the math, that's about eight hundred pounds of sawdust. The last load down was pretty heavy, and it looks like millions of rabbits with digestive issues came and had a poo.
My mother stopped by and the first comment out of her mouth was, "Why is your lawn so green? Are you watering daily or something?" Um, no. She's heading to Tractor Supply tomorrow.
+1 Andy. Hardwood is absolutely fine, it'll just be a little slower to break down. That's not a significant issue and may actually be helpful for you as Georgia summers are much longer and hotter than Pennsylvania ones!I went by the local woodshop. They do not deal in anything treated. But the draw back was he said the sawdust was 50-50 hardwood/softwood. So off to Tractor Supply. Found the horse pellets. I think I made the right choice. Pellets were easy to spread vs. sawdust.
Don't turn down free, untreated sawdust.
Keep in mind a lot of this isn't blind experimentation, it's logic and chemistry and physics. It's obvious that mulch forms a barrier against evaporation, and if you think about the types of mulches you can use in the lawn sawdust very quickly rises to the top of the list. So does peat moss, except for that water-refusing thing. Compost is on the list as well, except for the expense, weight, and difficulty spreading it. Sawdust is light for its volume, decays very nicely eventually, and cheap. So simple physics combined with a little logic and bingo.I had my 16yr old son help me spread the pellets. We were walking the yard talking and he asked what this was supposed to do. I explained about the water retention and om. But then he asked what we were spreading. I said Equestrian horse pellets. He stopped, looked at me and said "Who the h*** has the time to figure out all this wacky crap you put down on the lawn? I mean really dad, who thinks hmmm I think I'll spray milk on the lawn and see what it does. Wow that works lets try molasses and shampoo". I just about rolled across the lawn.
Molasses....sugar for the microherd. Chemistry gets you the reason that surfactants help out soils.
- MorpheusPA
- Posts: 18129
- Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
- Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
- Grass Type: Elite KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Advanced
Re: Dry Spot Experiment
And more sawdust over the last two days--to the tune of another 320 pounds for a grand total of about 800 pounds across 9,000 square feet including heavy applications to problem areas in the hopes that they won't be quite so problematic any longer.
Rates are now:
Most areas: 60 per K
Southern face: 120 per K
Modest problem areas: 150-300 per K
Problem areas: 600 per K
Modest problem areas are the ones that go well after the problem areas do, but before the southern face of the main lawn does.
Rates are now:
Most areas: 60 per K
Southern face: 120 per K
Modest problem areas: 150-300 per K
Problem areas: 600 per K
Modest problem areas are the ones that go well after the problem areas do, but before the southern face of the main lawn does.
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