Need advice on Maple Tree Roots in Lawn

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
Post Reply
derek_s
Posts: 3
Joined: August 30th, 2013, 8:29 am
Location: Charlotte, NC
Grass Type: Unsure, Kentucky
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Need advice on Maple Tree Roots in Lawn

Post by derek_s » August 30th, 2013, 8:33 am

HI, I need some advice on how to remedy my front lawn situation. The biggest issue is the roots that are on the surface of the soil. I believe these are Maple tree roots.

The only remedy I can think of is to add a thick layer of topsoil to the ground, and try to rapidly establish the grass before erosion can carry it away. I figure I will need at least 1" of cover, maybe more, so that works out to a lot of expense.

I am just looking on confirmation of my thoughts, or perhaps some other recommendations.



Image

Image

derek_s
Posts: 3
Joined: August 30th, 2013, 8:29 am
Location: Charlotte, NC
Grass Type: Unsure, Kentucky
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Need advice on Maple Tree Roots in Lawn

Post by derek_s » August 30th, 2013, 8:35 am

Additional info:

The lawn is pretty shady and is located in Charlotte, North Carolina. You can see the trees all around, and it is the West side of the house. The existing grass I believe is a variant of Kentucky, but I am not sure.

I have also attached a "site plan".
Image

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Need advice on Maple Tree Roots in Lawn

Post by andy10917 » August 30th, 2013, 9:11 am

"Maple" is too general. There are lots of Maple varieties, and they don't all behave in the same manner. Some (up here in NY, Norway Maples come to mind) are very shallow-rooted, and the roots extend out to the same width as the canopy does. Attempting to grow grass under a shallow-rooted Maple is for one of these types of people: a) the very-dedicated that will handle the area as demanding and special-needs, and b) the foolhardy.

Adding inches of topsoil to a shallow-rooted Maple can literally suffocate it - it requires its roots in a higher-Oxygen environment. If you don't care about that, then remove the tree(s) now -- it's the same end-result with less time wasted. I'm sure you'll find some dunce that says "I did it and it didn't die", but upon further study you'll find that either the area covered with topsoil was either rather small, or the tree is declining.

I have a 125-yr old Norway Maple that is the centerpiece of my front yard. After years of attempts to fight it and two arborists consulting on it, I found that I needed to accommodate it to 75% of its canopy width, and treat the other 25% as a special-needs area. That means extra irrigation and nutrition, as Maples are very-capable competitors. A mature Maple can consume 40,000 gallons of water a year.

User avatar
HoosierLawnGnome
Posts: 9591
Joined: May 22nd, 2013, 5:59 pm
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Grass Type: Blueberry KBG
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Need advice on Maple Tree Roots in Lawn

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » August 30th, 2013, 9:45 am

So, I have several maple trees - I own some forested land and like to do some maple sugaring - I absolutely love maple trees - my favorite. So, I have a lot in my yard - all young trees


My red maple is ~10 years old and largest. I keep it trimmed so sun gets to the lawn. I installed mulched rings around it this spring as the grass was continually thinning out and just under the surface was an intense web of tiny roots taking all the moisture and nutrients from my grass. That ring is going to expand over the years.

Sugar maples have a little deeper roots, and I have two of them. One is in my front yard. I will keep the lower branches trimmed to keep it more vertical as it grows and allow as much sun to reach the soil as possible. Grass should fare better under this in the years to come - but I will still need to landscape the ring of grass it will inevitably thin out in the end.

Then in the back, I have a special, super-sap, silver maple cultivated to have an extremely high sugar content. It grows like a weed. Roots will be ridiculously close to the surface. This one is in the back yard, and I will cultivate many sweet delectable treats from it (I hope). It will be shady back there - I expect I may try to do some sort of ground cover in the back yard eventually.

derek_s
Posts: 3
Joined: August 30th, 2013, 8:29 am
Location: Charlotte, NC
Grass Type: Unsure, Kentucky
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Need advice on Maple Tree Roots in Lawn

Post by derek_s » August 30th, 2013, 10:04 am

Thanks for the info, and very good info, but neither reply really spells out any clear ideas on a solution. Also, let me be clear that I am a novice, so I would require any suggestions spelled out pretty literally.

I understand one solution is to remove the trees, but that is the least desirable to me. Andy, I understand your concern about suffocating it, but I am not sure what the alternative you are suggestion is? Even if I were to supply the Maple with extra nutrients and water, that leaves the issue of exposed roots still to deal with, by either covering them (mostly, not completely) or other (abandon the fescue and just mulch the yard?)

Hoosier, thanks for hte info, but I am not sure if I am understanding the point, or how it relates to my problem. I understand you are planning for the future and the issue of shade/thinning grass, but what about shallow/exposed root systems? In my case, they extend out for many feet, so there is not mulched tree ring that can cover them without pretty much mulching the entire yard (maybe this is the best answer). The immediate issue is not the grass itself being out-competed (although that is probably another issue) but the roots themselves.


User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Need advice on Maple Tree Roots in Lawn

Post by andy10917 » August 30th, 2013, 10:47 am

You're assuming that I believe there IS a solution.

Shallow-rooted trees and grass are competing and incompatible. Just because we WANT a solution doesn't mean there is one. After 15 years of trying and $$$$ spent, I had to expand the Hosta/mulch bed and accommodate the tree that I really like. The only other solution would have been to remove the tree. I fight mightily to get grass to grow properly in the outer 25% of the canopy/root zone, where I stand some chance of winning.

If I sound rigid in my opinion, that's not my intention - it is to save you a lot of frustration and money. My opinion is that the tree and Mother Nature's rules have 24 hrs a day to try to enforce their position. There are no simple solutions if the tree remains.

While not what you want to hear, I think it is very clear.

User avatar
HoosierLawnGnome
Posts: 9591
Joined: May 22nd, 2013, 5:59 pm
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Grass Type: Blueberry KBG
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Need advice on Maple Tree Roots in Lawn

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » August 30th, 2013, 10:58 am

If you compost the whole yard, or topsoil it several inches, you may hide the roots for a while, but eventually, those maple roots will grow into it as well. They love good dirt!

Here's what I did to one of my maples:

Image

What you can't see here is that I have 3 large roots at the surface. I made channels for them in my half "wall" so as not to damage the ring and make it level while minimizing root damage and allowing for growth - minimize smothering.

In the years to come, the maple roots will grow, messing up my ring and protruding more. So, I will either have to expand my ring or live with the roots. I suppose I could add a little dirt to the top, but that will only put the issue off - and won't prevent it - this is, after all - how the tree was designed to grow. If I inhibit that growth pattern, I work against it's natural design, damaging the tree....

My evergreens in that picture don't have the same issue - their roots grow differently - very little roots at the couple inches down I dug.

There isn't much you can do about surface roots if the tree builds surface roots. The only real solution to getting rid of surface roots is to get rid of the tree that creates them. I choose to mask the roots while protecting them as much as I can - and not having bare areas under trees. No perfect solution there that I can think of. Trade-offs.

fun4me2
Posts: 619
Joined: May 19th, 2013, 9:46 am
Location: Western MA (center pioneer valley) ZONE 6A
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 3000-5000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Need advice on Maple Tree Roots in Lawn

Post by fun4me2 » August 31st, 2013, 4:50 pm

I have lived here for 35 years. I believe it was a Silver Maple tree we had dead center of the backyard. Over the years the tree got huge! :shock:
Forget about growing any grass under due to the dense shade and roots.
It was one of those maple trees that had those, what I called "helicopters" that dropped every spring. What a mess! My gutters were filled with them and they actually started to sprout right in the gutters.
The roots were on the surface and they extended out across my back yard all around the tree right up to my shed and house. It was murder dodging them with the lawnmowers.
4 years ago I noticed large piles of sawdust at the base of the tree. The tree was infested with carpenter ants.
$3,000. to take it down.
Just this morning it cost me $200. to have the stump removed.
I'm posting some pictures.
Try not to notice the lawn. It did not do well this summer. :(

Picture #1 is this spring, you can see the stump.
Picture #2 is the tree with a 300 lb. black bear in it. He's peeking through the 2 tree limbs. :shock:
Gives you an idea of the diameter because you can't see the bear's body. :shock:
The rest of the pictures were taken today after the stump and roots were removed and mulch spread. The guy left me a huge pile of mulch from the stump. I thought he was going to take care of it. :shock:
Needless to say I spent most of the day spreading it around the gardens. :banghead:
I am 5'1" and about 110 lbs soaking wet.
It sure wasn't on my to do list. :o

Image

Image

Image

Image

Chris LI
Posts: 182
Joined: June 9th, 2017, 10:38 am
Location: LI, NY
Grass Type: KBG/NoMix, TTTF/KBG, KBG/FF
Lawn Size: 3000-5000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Need advice on Maple Tree Roots in Lawn

Post by Chris LI » November 6th, 2018, 10:28 am

Bump

derek_s,

I know this is a few years old, but I'm curious what your POA was, and what results were achieved, if you're still active on ATY.

I'm working on a POA for next year under my Norway Maple, and I'm considering trying some foliar feedings during the growing season.

TimmyG
Posts: 2244
Joined: May 15th, 2012, 6:04 pm
Location: Dracut, MA
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Experienced

Re: Need advice on Maple Tree Roots in Lawn

Post by TimmyG » November 6th, 2018, 12:38 pm

POA = plan of attack? Understandably, that's an acronym that might best be avoided on a lawn site.

Chris LI
Posts: 182
Joined: June 9th, 2017, 10:38 am
Location: LI, NY
Grass Type: KBG/NoMix, TTTF/KBG, KBG/FF
Lawn Size: 3000-5000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Need advice on Maple Tree Roots in Lawn

Post by Chris LI » November 6th, 2018, 6:18 pm

Yes. You are correct on both accounts. I did get some attention however, for drudging up an old thread. Now, the real trick is to get an update from derek_s. ;)

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Need advice on Maple Tree Roots in Lawn

Post by andy10917 » November 6th, 2018, 6:51 pm

Unlikely to happen. His last visit was shortly after his first visit, in 2013.

Chris LI
Posts: 182
Joined: June 9th, 2017, 10:38 am
Location: LI, NY
Grass Type: KBG/NoMix, TTTF/KBG, KBG/FF
Lawn Size: 3000-5000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Need advice on Maple Tree Roots in Lawn

Post by Chris LI » November 8th, 2018, 8:48 pm

Thanks for checking into it for me.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 16 guests