Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
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gryd
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Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by gryd » June 29th, 2014, 10:17 pm

Front Yard
Been hemming and hawing for years about how I want the lawn darker. Current blend of the main front yard is 38% Bedazzled, 31% Moonlight and 31% Midnight 2. I renovated it in 2008. Over seeding will probably be more work than a new reno and the success rate is small.

Anyway I’m not getting any younger, I like doing renovations and I get the chance to go dark blue green. Hopefully in the future I can use a bit less fertilizer to get the color I desire and hopefully my cultivar selection will grow a bit slower than Bedazzled. As previously mentioned I‘m going for the dark blue/green look with the only sparkle coming from the dark green Bewitched which I plan to have in the blend. I’ll be going with Midnight, Prosperity, Moonlight SLT and Bewitched. Currently I have Moonlight SLT, Midnight 2 and Bewitched growing here and they perform very well for me. In fact, my side yard of Bewitched, Moonlights SLT, and Brilliant are noticeably darker than the area with Bedazzled. Still, I won’t be using any Compact America types in my blend.

My lawn is admired from people all around town so pulling the trigger will no doubt have people talking about me but I’m getting too old to care!

As always I have some questions:

1) My biggest concern and question is can I really get good germination without any mechanical device to prepare the soil. How successful have you guys been just sowing the seed into the dead scalped lawn and topdressing?
2) Is top dressing with compost more effective than peat moss? I’d rather use peat because it is much easier for me to spread.
3) I’ll need advice at some point on how to apply the Tenacity and what rate to use to suppress poa annua germination. If the new Scott’s Starter Fertilizer with Tenacity in it will do the job then I’ll gladly pay for and use that. Please let me know. Currently I have pretty much zero poa in my yard so let’s hope I don’t have too many poa seeds there to begin with.
4) I'm thinking of going a bit heavier on the Midnight because it has greater Summer Patch resistance even though I've never had the disease and my at-risk cultivars do great here in Connecticut. Is this necessary considering I'm using a blend of 4 cultivars? Do the at-risk cultivars for patch disease become stronger with something like Midnight and Bewitched in the blend or will a particular disease still attack the cultivars that are prone to a particular disease?

Backyard mini renovation
I have 2 small areas in back that were never renovated. The grass there is composed of common KBG and some light Perennial Rye. It looks terrible and I plan to knock that out this year as well. It will be known as my mini backyard reno area. I’ll be using 2/3 Bewitched and 1/3 Skye KBG. I don’t want it too dark as I need it to match the rest of the backyard lawn so I’m using the Skye in my blend. It’s the only medium green cultivar I can find at the moment plus it is Summer Patch resistant.

I welcome your comments as always!
Last edited by gryd on August 20th, 2014, 6:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » June 29th, 2014, 10:51 pm

How successful have you guys been just sowing the seed into the dead scalped lawn and topdressing?
Very successful. I'm doing it again this fall on my backyard renovation.
Is top dressing with compost more effective than peat moss? I’d rather use peat because it is much easier for me to spread.
Peat moss advocate here. Disclaimer - I've not done one with compost. It's easier to move to the site, sterile of seeds, and helps retain moisture better (IMO).
I’ll need advice at some point on how to apply the Tenacity and what rate to use to suppress poa annua germination. If the new Scott’s Starter Fertilizer with Tenacity in it will do the job then I’ll gladly pay for and use that.
The Tenacity regimen for new seedings is 4 oz / acre rate at seed drop day, then another 4 oz / acre rate 4 weeks later.

You'll get better, more even coverage with a blanket spray than prill from starter. Use a tracker dye. If you do decide to go with the starter with mesotrione, I wouldn't use it for the second application - you want to also kill anything you spray that second time around as well as put down that temporary preM barrier - that's best done with a foliar spray.

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by DJG9282 » June 29th, 2014, 11:00 pm

Let me address your concerns on the things I have experience with.

1. I have done it both ways. I have seeded into a scalped lawn without any top dressing and it was successful. You just can't see it there because its subtle until it really grows over the grass. It can give you a scare, but that area came up better than the other areas. If you want to add peat moss to that, you'll be golden!

2. Never did it with compost. I can see using it for the extra OM but I think peat supplies a decent amount. Go with peat moss. If its easier for you, don't break your back more then you have too.

3. I went with a strong rate because of my weed issues. I did half teaspoon to two gallons of water and spread over 2000 sq ft. That's a stronger rate, but it works and bluegrass isn't affected. You will see some blades come up white which I think is pretty cool. I would use the bottle instead of the Scotts, but that's just me. Either way should be fine. Having the bottle is good for spot spraying the POA when it comes up. You don't seem to have other weed problems so I think you'll be just fine.

Good luck!

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by andy10917 » June 29th, 2014, 11:06 pm

Greg, my most recent Renovation had the highest germination ever (I've done many) and the fastest too. It was seeded directly into scalped, RU'ed dead grass, with 1/8" of peat moss topdressing and SoilMoist SeedCoat. I watered very lightly 5X a day.

I love Tenacity, but I have to admit that I found the breakthrough weeds higher than I expected. As a Pre-M, Tenacity got a so-so in my book. As a Post-M, I find it unrivaled. I've learned things about it that I've shared with only a few people, and already it has one confirmation of my observations.

I'm sticking with peat moss - it's much easier to spread.

Those are the points in your questions that I feel I have enough experience to comment upon...

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by gryd » June 30th, 2014, 6:53 am

Andy and Hoosier thank you so much for your quick responses. DJG9282 thank you as well. DJG I noticed you used Galaxy blend at one point. Was that Prosperity, Moonlight SLT and Midnight 2? How did that hold up to summer diseases?


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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by DJG9282 » June 30th, 2014, 7:09 am

gryd wrote:DJG9282 thank you as well. DJG I noticed you used Galaxy blend at one point. Was that Prosperity, Moonlight SLT and Midnight 2? How did that hold up to summer diseases?
The first year it did fine. The only issue I encountered was dry spot, but by the second year Summer Patch took out a bigger portion of the yard. I'm sure some of that issue was mixed with grub damage as well. My blend had Prosperity, Brilliant, and Jump Start. Jump Start is like your Bedazzled color wise. I have it in the back right now as I did a spring reno about two years ago with it. I kind of just spreaded it and forgot about it. It looks great except for the weeds mixed in which i plan to take care of. The color isn't what I want, but it looks fine for the back. I wouldn't hesitate to go with Bewitched and Midnight. Should be a nice lawn. Bewitched had bad overall Summer Patch resistance but it was near flawless for that disease in NJ.

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by jglongisland » June 30th, 2014, 9:22 am

I think you'll love that blend. I had outstanding results with absolutely no topdressing on my mom's lawn in Maine last year. I was only able to use Tenacity 2x, once at seeding, and once again in October. I walked it this past weekend, about 5,000 sq. ft., and didn't see a weed ANYWHERE. Primary difference is that the lawn was pretty "clean" going in. I think you'll have very low weed pressure after maintaing a nearly perfect KBG yard for 6 years.

If you go with Peat, soak the soil well before seeding, then soak the seeds before topdressing, then water the peat frequently but light for about 1-2 days. Once it absorbs the water you are good to go, but until then it can repel it.

I doubt you have any real SP problems as I had the same blend as you and had issues each year. If you haven't seen a problem in 6 years I doubt you'll have one going forward.

I'm not sure what kind of sprinkler controller you have, but if you have the time, the $160 on an Irrigation Caddy is a great investment. It makes germination programming/tweaking a breeze.

I did use compost in a few places and it worked well, I think you need to avoid mushroom compost because of salts.

If you have a slope Penn Mulch and/or blankets work well, but you'll be seeding into an awesome bed of dead KBG. You really can't ask for anything better than that.

We just renovated my Mom's other lawn in Maine and I used the Scott's stuff, turned out I didn't have enough liquid tenacity and didn't feel like spraying another 6,000 feet after spreading starter.

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by gryd » June 30th, 2014, 12:23 pm

jglongisland wrote: I doubt you have any real SP problems as I had the same blend as you and had issues each year. If you haven't seen a problem in 6 years I doubt you'll have one going forward.
Thanks Jon! What blend exactly did you have trouble with? Did you have problems with the shady blend we both used a couple years back composed of Brilliant, Bewitched and Moonlight SLT?

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by jglongisland » June 30th, 2014, 12:25 pm

gryd wrote:
jglongisland wrote: I doubt you have any real SP problems as I had the same blend as you and had issues each year. If you haven't seen a problem in 6 years I doubt you'll have one going forward.
Thanks Jon! What blend exactly did you have trouble with? Did you have problems with the shady blend we both used a couple years back composed of Brilliant, Bewitched and Moonlight SLT?
Bedazzled, Moonlight, Midnight II Blue Velvet and Freedom III got hit pretty hard and that had plenty of Midnight in it.

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by gryd » June 30th, 2014, 3:32 pm

jglongisland wrote:
gryd wrote:
jglongisland wrote: I doubt you have any real SP problems as I had the same blend as you and had issues each year. If you haven't seen a problem in 6 years I doubt you'll have one going forward.
Thanks Jon! What blend exactly did you have trouble with? Did you have problems with the shady blend we both used a couple years back composed of Brilliant, Bewitched and Moonlight SLT?
Bedazzled, Moonlight, Midnight II Blue Velvet and Freedom III got hit pretty hard and that had plenty of Midnight in it.
Jon,
That blend wouldn't seem like it would be prone to Summer Patch. I guess any cultivar can get it. Are you doing anything preventative with your Blueberry Monostand? Did you get hit with SP on your shade blend of Moonlight SLT, Bewitched, Brilliant, .... blend as well? You planted something along those lines the same year I did.

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by jglongisland » June 30th, 2014, 4:14 pm

I'll answer in reverse. Only saw SP in one tiny spot where I trenched a wire in July in the shade reno; there is strip that gets 6-7 hours of sun now, by August 15th it is down to 2-3 and by October no sun at all. In general I don't think SP manifests itself in the shade, just not enough stress.

I have been spraying Actinovate/Companion/Essentials nearly every week at between 5 and 6 oz/thousand, watering it in for 6-12 minutes. I started very early and only missed one week during Passover. The Rutgers study started later and only applied every other week and had about 15% SP by August (I think) vs. 50-60% in the control. I'm hoping my much more intense regimen will obviate the need for a chemical.

I agree that my blend shouldn't have been prone to it, but I think we sometimes misread the NTEP data. Just because Midnight is the best and Moonlight might be the worst, that is all in the realm of KBG. If you compared those figures on a scale against TTTF or Rye, Midnight might not look so good.

I am watering more frequently than I was a month ago, but that's a small price to pay until the loan matures.

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by gryd » June 30th, 2014, 6:33 pm

jglongisland wrote:I'll answer in reverse. Only saw SP in one tiny spot where I trenched a wire in July in the shade reno; there is strip that gets 6-7 hours of sun now, by August 15th it is down to 2-3 and by October no sun at all. In general I don't think SP manifests itself in the shade, just not enough stress.

I have been spraying Actinovate/Companion/Essentials nearly every week at between 5 and 6 oz/thousand, watering it in for 6-12 minutes. I started very early and only missed one week during Passover. The Rutgers study started later and only applied every other week and had about 15% SP by August (I think) vs. 50-60% in the control. I'm hoping my much more intense regimen will obviate the need for a chemical.

I agree that my blend shouldn't have been prone to it, but I think we sometimes misread the NTEP data. Just because Midnight is the best and Moonlight might be the worst, that is all in the realm of KBG. If you compared those figures on a scale against TTTF or Rye, Midnight might not look so good.

I am watering more frequently than I was a month ago, but that's a small price to pay until the loan matures.
Thanks JG! So are you going for the Bewitched monostand this year in back? It's always nice to do a reno with someone you know! :)

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by jglongisland » June 30th, 2014, 8:26 pm

gryd wrote:
jglongisland wrote:I'll answer in reverse. Only saw SP in one tiny spot where I trenched a wire in July in the shade reno; there is strip that gets 6-7 hours of sun now, by August 15th it is down to 2-3 and by October no sun at all. In general I don't think SP manifests itself in the shade, just not enough stress.

I have been spraying Actinovate/Companion/Essentials nearly every week at between 5 and 6 oz/thousand, watering it in for 6-12 minutes. I started very early and only missed one week during Passover. The Rutgers study started later and only applied every other week and had about 15% SP by August (I think) vs. 50-60% in the control. I'm hoping my much more intense regimen will obviate the need for a chemical.

I agree that my blend shouldn't have been prone to it, but I think we sometimes misread the NTEP data. Just because Midnight is the best and Moonlight might be the worst, that is all in the realm of KBG. If you compared those figures on a scale against TTTF or Rye, Midnight might not look so good.

I am watering more frequently than I was a month ago, but that's a small price to pay until the loan matures.
Thanks JG! So are you going for the Bewitched monostand this year in back? It's always nice to do a reno with someone you know! :)
I hope so, have to ask when my wife is in a really, really good mood. The back is looking great this year, however.

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by gryd » June 30th, 2014, 8:53 pm

jglongisland wrote: I hope so, have to ask when my wife is in a really, really good mood. The back is looking great this year, however.
That makes it a tough choice and a tough sell. As I recall your back looked real nice and fairly dark.

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by gryd » July 2nd, 2014, 6:42 pm

Seed is ordered. I have a very shady spot I'm gonna do KBG as we'll with 50 percent Bewitched, 25 percent Moonlight SLT and 25 percent Blue Velvet. It is not part of my main front and if they still sold Brilliant I would use that. I have that growing in some pretty good shade right now and it is doing great.
No turning back now!

question: can I spray RU with a hose end sprayer?
Last edited by gryd on July 2nd, 2014, 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by Jackpine » July 2nd, 2014, 6:51 pm

I've done it many times with a hose end with perfect results. It is easier to edge with a tank sprayer which is what I used today.

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by gryd » July 2nd, 2014, 10:16 pm

Jackpine wrote:I've done it many times with a hose end with perfect results. It is easier to edge with a tank sprayer which is what I used today.
Thanks. Ill edge with my tank. Is the Ortho Sprayer good enough and what is the setting?
Greg

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by CTShoreGuy » July 2nd, 2014, 10:23 pm

Good luck brother! Can't wait to see updated pix and your liquor cabinet stash! :rotfl:

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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by gryd » July 2nd, 2014, 11:09 pm

CTShoreGuy wrote:Good luck brother! Can't wait to see updated pix and your liquor cabinet stash! :rotfl:
Thanks! People will think I'm crazy but I'm actually excited to do another renovation! How is your TTTF holding up this year?


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Re: Gryd's 2014 Front Yard Renovation Take 2

Post by Jackpine » July 3rd, 2014, 5:37 am

gryd wrote:
Jackpine wrote:I've done it many times with a hose end with perfect results. It is easier to edge with a tank sprayer which is what I used today.
Thanks. Ill edge with my tank. Is the Ortho Sprayer good enough and what is the setting?
Greg

The Ortho Dial'N spray is fine and what I used. Are you using Roundup or a generic? The generic I have (27% I think) calls for 5oz/K for a heavier kill rate and is kinda thick so I add a few oz of water to help it draw. I move pretty fast and use a setting of around 3-4. YMMV

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