nclawnguy's 2014 renovation - 1 year update

[nclawnguy]

Hi Guys/Gals,
Most of you know me from the cool season forum. I currently have tttf, I am located right outside Charlotte, NC. I have lived here 10 years and only know tttf, I am currently in my 2nd home and have had 100% tttf on both. Over the last couple years I have been seriously contemplating switching to kbg, but have had concerns, mainly I have never seen a kbg lawn ever while living here and do not know what to expect. I did grow up in Connecticut and many lawns had it there, but they were mostly common types mixed with PRG. My lawn where I grew up was PRG.

So why the switch? I feel I have taken my tttf to best it can be, I feel there is little or no room for improvement with my current lawn. With moving to kbg, it will be a challenge, something new, exciting. Hell, if it fails, I can always go back to tttf. So really, what's there to lose? Except my liver from excessive alcohol.

About my Yard. I will be renovating around 2,000 sqft, my front and side yards. House faces East-SE, I get direct morning sun, and afternoon sun until around 3pm when the sun goes over my house and shade starts to creep in, my front yard is in full shade by 5:30pm (times are approximate for the summer months, May-August). My side yard is in more direct sunlight, I would say it is full sun, except for the areas underneath a tree. I do have a two 25-35' Pin Oaks that will shade parts of my front/side lawn at different times, but nothing that would be considered deep shade.

What are my thoughts on specific kbg cultivars? I must admit, I know very little personally about kbg, what I do know is from this forum. I have checked the NTEP test results from Raleigh, and it seems like midnights do best here. From what I understand about midnights, they are the least tolerant of shade (again I know little so I might be wrong). I was thinking a 50/50 mix with Bewitched (good in the shade) and a top performing midnight like NuGlade. I did see on one of NuGlade's publications that it performs very well in shade. I don't think shade is a huge issue for 80% of my yard, but am concerned about spots under trees and such.

What are my expectations? I am looking for a dark, lush and uniform lawn that looks amazing.

Do I have the balls to pull the trigger? I really don't know. I feel I am in the information gathering stage. My neighbors are going to think I have lost my mind if I kill off the best lawn here. I have done renovations before, so I am fairly experienced with growing grass...but that was tttf and am used to 5-7 day germination.

I really need to make up my mind in the next couple weeks, so I can plan to do this. Here are a few pics of my lawn taken a couple weeks ago. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Front






Side

[HoosierLawnGnome]

You, nothing0, and GeorgiaDad are gonna be pals, huh? Has bernstem done KBG in St. Louis? What do they have? I think nothing0 did a Zinfandel monostand?

I can't recall - do you have a sprinkler system? Seems like that would be important in a really hot climate with KBG.

Well, I'll definitely be watching. Does sound like quite the challenge!

[nclawnguy]

I can't recall - do you have a sprinkler system? Seems like that would be important in a really hot climate with KBG.

No, but I can have one installed if needed.

[ Post made via Android ]

[mattya]

Wow, think I'm even more impressed that you keep the lawn looking like that with no irrigation system.

I'd imagine watering 3-4 times a day during the renovation would be tough without one, no?

[HoosierLawnGnome]

FYI - if you're thinking about a sprinkler system, do it soon. The Indianapolis area installer I wanted to do the job was booked until the end of August. I imagine the situation is similar for other reputable installers in major metropolitan areas like yours.

[nclawnguy]

I'd imagine watering 3-4 times a day during the renovation would be tough without one, no?

Not really, I prefer to hand water seedlings. More time consuming, but I am a perfectionist. I have advantages to being self employed, and my office is 5 miles from my house. It's only 2000 sqft.

[nclawnguy]

Another concern I have is dealing with my dormant triv spots. I know RU won't kill them this summer, they usually reappear in Sept. What should I do about that?

[andy10917]

Not much CAN be done, but realize that any soil disturbance can still spread the stolons. Ask me how I know that. I had 3,000 sq ft of Poa Triv to deal with.

[nclawnguy]

Not much CAN be done, but realize that any soil disturbance can still spread the stolons. Ask me how I know that. I had 3,000 sq ft of Poa Triv to deal with.

So maybe just don't worry about it at first, then kill off when it's comes back alive and reseed those areas.

[andy10917]

I have about 10 sq ft of Triv following an August, 2013 Renovation. I first concentrated on every other weed this year (Poa Annua and broadleafs) and am giving the lawn a recovery period before I attack the Poa Triv with "Certainty". I will then blanket the area affected with a margin to 6' out (excessive, but I don't want to have young plants that I can't see yet escape). Then I'll overseed the areas (after waiting period) if needed.

[nclawnguy]

I have about 10 sq ft of Triv following an August, 2013 Renovation. I first concentrated on every other weed this year (Poa Annua and broadleafs) and am giving the lawn a recovery period before I attack the Poa Triv with "Certainty". I will then blanket the area affected with a margin to 6' out (excessive, but I don't want to have young plants that I can't see yet escape). Then I'll overseed the areas (after waiting period) if needed.

Ah yes, I forgot about Certainty...I can use that with kbg. Good plan Andy, knock out the easy stuff and then deal with the triv.

[likeasponge]

Do I have the balls to pull the trigger? I really don't know. I feel I am in the information gathering stage. My neighbors are going to think I have lost my mind if I kill off the best lawn here.

You have been on the fence for awhile now......don't look back wishing you would have tried once.

Your knowledge, tttf awesomeness and love of hand watering should render some successful KBG.

Just Do It!

[nclawnguy]

I am really considering a NuGlade monostand. Anyone have any experiences with this as a solo or have grown in pots? I know jg said he used it in a mix.

[Othertime]

At work but definitely want to get some comments in here to help out. Let me read through it tonight and get back. NuGlade is very promising from NTEP trials for south transition lawn if I remember correctly. I would definitely comb through the NTEP trials on disease (dollar spot and summer patch), along with drought tolerance. I know you will be doing preventative chemical fungal treatments right?

[nclawnguy]

At work but definitely want to get some comments in here to help out. Let me read through it tonight and get back. NuGlade is very promising from NTEP trials for south transition lawn if I remember correctly. I would definitely comb through the NTEP trials on disease (dollar spot and summer patch), along with drought tolerance. I know you will be doing preventative chemical fungal treatments right?

Thanks Othertime. Yes, I would be doing chemical preventative, so not too concerned about disease...hell, I managed to prevent brown patch over the last few years with my tttf in NC brown patch country. What's promising about Nuglade is it scored very well at the NC NTEP trials in Raleigh and according to publications on NuGlade, it does well in some shade, I'm not talking about heavy shade as I know kbg hates shade. As I stated earlier I have some rolling shade spots with trees and shadows. Everything gets sun, some spots get less.

[UMCheez]

I don't have an experience with NuGlade, but I started some pots of NuChicago then planted them in various microclimates in my lawn. I also have 2 tall pin oaks that I planted a couple pots under to see how it does.

I just planted them in the lawn recently so I don't have any real findings yet. This might be something you might also want to try to see if you like it before you commit the entire lawn.

I am toying with the idea of KBG as well, but I am a few years out from pulling the trigger. I figured this would be a decent way to try the waters without much effort.


Sent from my iOS device using the Yard Help App

[Othertime]

At work but definitely want to get some comments in here to help out. Let me read through it tonight and get back. NuGlade is very promising from NTEP trials for south transition lawn if I remember correctly. I would definitely comb through the NTEP trials on disease (dollar spot and summer patch), along with drought tolerance. I know you will be doing preventative chemical fungal treatments right?

Thanks Othertime. Yes, I would be doing chemical preventative, so not too concerned about disease...hell, I managed to prevent brown patch over the last few years with my tttf in NC brown patch country. What's promising about Nuglade is it scored very well at the NC NTEP trials in Raleigh and according to publications on NuGlade, it does well in some shade, I'm not talking about heavy shade as I know kbg hates shade. As I stated earlier I have some rolling shade spots with trees and shadows. Everything gets sun, some spots get less.

Alright....since NC1 Ntep trial location is on schedule B which is
1-2 INCH MOWING HEIGHT
3-4 lbs. N/1000 FT2/YEAR
IRRIGATION TO PREVENT DORMANCY
FUNGICIDES APPLIED ONLY TO PREVENT SEVERE STAND LOSS
INSECTICIDES APPLIED ONLY TO PREVENT STAND LOSS
WEED CONTROL APPLIED AS NEEDED TO PREVENT STAND LOSS

I would stick pretty close to the best cultivar from that site and call it a day. You will get better color in your stand since you probably will not be mowing at 1-2 inches but at around 3-4 in the summer and will also retain more moisture in the soil at that height. NuGlade is up there and might be the best one if you plan to do preventative fungicide apps. Data from NC1 for Nuglade.... top 7.3 at NC1 for turf quality which is a big factor... 8.1 color (top tier color)....6.6 wilting mean for drought...middle of the pack in the dormancy category (4.5 mean) but if you are going to maintain watering to prevent dormancy you should be ok. Kind of middle of the pack for NC1 for spring greenup (6.4) so it might be an slower green up. 6.3 for summer density which is pretty good.

Have you gotten a chance to see Nuglade in a reno or upclose? KBG cultivars vary in their color of dark green, for example bewitched is more of a dark emerald green vs emblem which has more of a silver dark blue hint in it from pictures that I have seen. BTEP is a great thread to go and check out color comparisons.

If you are going to do a full reno I would do a monostand cause from the sound of it you are pretty anal like myself and would like everything to be spot on and you will have the uniformity of growth, color and appearance from afar with a monostand. To hell with a fungus attack when you are doing preventative and plan on doing it foreva!!!

You are going to want to bump up your nitrogen a couple of notches from what you are used to with tttf to get the kbg density up to par and to keep it healthy. Mowing will be more frequent. I am mowing every 4 days with Bewitched still while my tttf in the back is every 7-8 days.

More water it will take to prevent wilting than you are used to with your tttf. I have noticed that alread between my front and rear stands. KBG is a little bit of a queen that you have to pamper. The texture is night and day though over tttf, we are talking pillow soft. Its very nice.

Let me know if you have any more questions. I am new to the kbg myself but if you know what to look out for; water stress, fungus attack you should be ok. I would get a soil test if you have not had one in the past year to see if you need to bring some levels up.

Good luck! Cheers!!

ps. after looking at your picture above you are crazy for nuking that

[nclawnguy]

Alright....since NC1 Ntep trial location is on schedule B which is
1-2 INCH MOWING HEIGHT
3-4 lbs. N/1000 FT2/YEAR
IRRIGATION TO PREVENT DORMANCY
FUNGICIDES APPLIED ONLY TO PREVENT SEVERE STAND LOSS
INSECTICIDES APPLIED ONLY TO PREVENT STAND LOSS
WEED CONTROL APPLIED AS NEEDED TO PREVENT STAND LOSS

I would stick pretty close to the best cultivar from that site and call it a day. You will get better color in your stand since you probably will not be mowing at 1-2 inches but at around 3-4 in the summer and will also retain more moisture in the soil at that height. NuGlade is up there and might be the best one if you plan to do preventative fungicide apps. Data from NC1 for Nuglade.... top 7.3 at NC1 for turf quality which is a big factor... 8.1 color (top tier color)....6.6 wilting mean for drought...middle of the pack in the dormancy category (4.5 mean) but if you are going to maintain watering to prevent dormancy you should be ok. Kind of middle of the pack for NC1 for spring greenup (6.4) so it might be an slower green up. 6.3 for summer density which is pretty good.

All that info looks good to me, thanks for taking the time to research that.

Have you gotten a chance to see Nuglade in a reno or upclose? KBG cultivars vary in their color of dark green, for example bewitched is more of a dark emerald green vs emblem which has more of a silver dark blue hint in it from pictures that I have seen. BTEP is a great thread to go and check out color comparisons.

Nope, I would have to of thought this out months ago. I have checked the BTEP blog, good info. Whether the grass is green or more blue tones does not really matter to me as long as it's on the darker side.

If you are going to do a full reno I would do a monostand cause from the sound of it you are pretty anal like myself and would like everything to be spot on and you will have the uniformity of growth, color and appearance from afar with a monostand. To hell with a fungus attack when you are doing preventative and plan on doing it foreva!!!

Yeah, I really like the idea of an uniform lawn with 1 single variety. My current tttf has 6 different cultivars in it. Hate that when unmowed it looks uneven and some blades are wider/finer, etc.

More water it will take to prevent wilting than you are used to with your tttf. I have noticed that alread between my front and rear stands. KBG is a little bit of a queen that you have to pamper. The texture is night and day though over tttf, we are talking pillow soft. Its very nice.

Watering won't be a problem, I do not let my lawn ever stress too much. I will water at the first signs of it needing it.

Let me know if you have any more questions. I am new to the kbg myself but if you know what to look out for; water stress, fungus attack you should be ok. I would get a soil test if you have not had one in the past year to see if you need to bring some levels up.

Good luck! Cheers!!

Thanks for your help, haven't had a soil test, so maybe I will get one done shortly.

ps. after looking at your picture above you are crazy for nuking that

Wait until I tell the wife

[HoosierLawnGnome]

Ignore the crazy-sayers. They're green with envy.

[nclawnguy]

I decided I am going to pull the trigger on NuGlade monostand, plan is to kill off August 1 and seed Sept 1. Should be fun.