Greenrebellions Grass Grow - Poa Annua Monostand

[greenrebellion]

Not exactly a renovation, as I'll be starting from scratch on a new construction lot that I moved into last year, but close enough!

Background:
- New construction lot
- 12K square feet of lawn
- Heavy Sun Backyard, moderate to heavy sun front yard
- Irrigation system installed
- Soil test results - LINK

The seeding plan:
- Hydroseed going down on Monday, August 8th
- Roundup has been applied twice to kill all weeds off (lot has been dirt for 12 months since it was graded)
- I will be bringing in about 1.5 yards of weed free compost per 1000 sf at time of seeding
- Hydroseed mix will include Tenacity and a starter fertilizer
- Seed will be 100% KBG (Award, Bewitched, Prosperity)
- Watering (planning on 4 times per day for first four weeks at (9:30, 12:15, 2:15, 5:00)


I have some questions if anyone cares to share their insight:
1. Will I be able to apply tenacity at some point this fall or some other herbicide? I'll have a lot of Wild onion and Purple deadnettle that will be popping up sometime this fall. Clover seems to be a big issue on my lot as well.
2. When is the appropriate time to apply my first round of fertilizer? (after the starter fert at hydroseeding)
3. I read this interesting post about fall nitrogen applications HERE. Can I use that regimen on my yard or will my grass be too young?
4. When is the appropriate time for the first mowing? I know that long term I want to mow to around 3.25 to 3.5 inches...but I imagine that it is appropriate to cut it shorter while it establishes?
5. After initial establishment, how should I continue watering the grass. I imagine you have to transition to deep and infrequently versus going from 4x a day to once a week all at once?
6. I hear people talking about growing grass "pots"...I did a forum search but didn't really see any in depth guide explaining the hows and whys. Should I do this and if so, is there a guide to follow somewhere on the forums?


Thanks for reading! I'll keep this thread updated with progress.

[edenl01]

Tenacity will go down at seeding and again 30-35 days AFTER germination. 2 more apps could be made after that at 1-2 week intervals. There's a 16 oz per acre per year maximum with that chemical.

Fertilizer can go down again toward the end of sprout and pout. That's anywhere from 3-6 weeks maybe longer after germination. Sprout and pout is when the grass pops up but doesn't take off for awhile. It's transitioning from seed energy to making its root system.

Guys usually mow it at 30 days or so around 2 inches. I wouldn't let it go to 3 or more.

As for watering there is a guide on that in the articles or faq section.

Pots are just grass guys start in some kind of container to put into the ground to patch the inevitable bare spots. That isn't exactly a science. Pot/container soil and seed.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[greenrebellion]

So assuming full germination is achieved by the 14 to 21 day mark, then I'll be putting down tenacity around 30 days from then which should equate to the last week of September...The hydroseeder will be applying Tenacity around 6 ounces per acre in the mix...so that will leave me with 10 oz per acre I can put on through the rest of the year (broken up in separate apps).

[edenl01]

For clover I use this Ortho product. I don't know what to tell you as far as how long to wait to use it on new grass so you'd have to dig into the labeling for that.
It works, but it's slow. I did about 3 apps a couple weeks apart and it got 90% of it.


[ Post made via iPhone ]

[LoneRanger]

.. as I'll be starting from scratch on a new construction lot that I moved into last year ..

That's called an establishment. Some people call it a new renovation, as well.

So assuming full germination is achieved by the 14 to 21 day mark ..

You know what happens when you assume.

.. so that will leave me with 10 oz per acre I can put on through the rest of the year ..

That will leave you with 10oz over the next year.

[greenrebellion]

How do you know when you have full germination then?

What is the application rate for Tenacity in this situation? Just follow the label?

[greenrebellion]

So here is my rough gameplan for how to take care of my new seed through the rest of the year. I structured this based on my soil test analysis (with a few tweaks to deal with likely timing of first frost around here). Obviously timing is rough and subject to change depending on visual cues from grass and weather etc. Anyone have any thoughts/comments/suggestions or tweaks that they would make to this?

[seiyafan]

Tenacity should be first applied at seeding, and it should not be applied near the first frost date.

[greenrebellion]

Tenacity should be first applied at seeding, and it should not be applied near the first frost date.

Yes, Tenacity at seed down is the plan at 8oz per acre as shown in my last post. Are you saying I should plan on no other herbicide for the rest of fall? Or should I use a non tenacity product? I am familiar with the weed control article and pre emergence (which I'll do in Spring)...just not sure how I should handle the first fall after seeding.

As posted earlier in the thread...likely weeds I'll get hit with through the rest of the year are:
Purple Deadnettle (Winter Annual)
Wild Onion (Winter annual)
Yellow Nutsedge
Clover

I'm afraid that if I do nothing besides Tenacity at seed down, that I'll get hit pretty hard with weeds.

[seiyafan]

You are limited to 16 oz per acre in a year, so if you use 8 at seeding, 4 in September and 4 in October, you won't be able to apply it again until next August. You want to leave some in reserve in case some tough weeds popped up next spring. Besides we usually do 4 oz per acre at seeding, 8 is a little too much.

[edenl01]

Where did the 8 oz per acre at seed down number come from?
Been studying renovations for a year now and have never seen anyone use that rate for either pre emergence or post emergence.
Not busting chops, just want to make sure you're successful.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[greenrebellion]

Where did the 8 oz per acre at seed down number come from?
Been studying renovations for a year now and have never seen anyone use that rate for either pre emergence or post emergence.
Not busting chops, just want to make sure you're successful.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

Tenacity label says anywhere from 5 to 8 is safe with pure kbg at seeding.

[ Post made via Android ]

[edenl01]

Ok. That's legit. I wouldn't use 8 oz at seeding though. That's just me. More like 4 oz /acre.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[andy10917]

Yes, 8 oz/a is SAFE and allowed for KBG. Realize however that you are applying one half of the total amount allowed in a year during a single application. That is not leaving much for other parts of the overall effort.

[greenrebellion]

Got it. Thanks, I will go around 4 to 5 Oz at seed down.

[ Post made via Android ]

[HoosierLawnGnome]

Got it. Thanks, I will go around 4 to 5 Oz at seed down.

[ Post made via Android ]

the label recommends 4 oz PER ACRE rate at seed down and then at 4 weeks another of the same. that is not 4 oz per K. just doing a double warning if this is your first time using Tenacity.


Sent from my iOS device using the Yard Help App

[LoneRanger]

^ Really! I have to go out and buy SS measuring spoons? Argh!!!

[andy10917]

Greenreb, as HLG is showing, it is really recommended that you don't assume anything when posting rates, etc. "4 oz" is really different than "4 oz/a rate" -- it can mean a mistake that is 43.6X too strong.

[greenrebellion]

Greenreb, as HLG is showing, it is really recommended that you don't assume anything when posting rates, etc. "4 oz" is really different than "4 oz/a rate" -- it can mean a mistake that is 43.6X too strong.

Acknowledged, I'll be more clear when I type it out going forward. I know the label rates are per acre, but just forgot to put it in my post.


And thanks for the input HLG...I will use your guidance as my Herbicide plan.

[greenrebellion]

Quick update. Got some baby shampoo down on my dirt on Saturday. Prep work was done yesterday (18 yards of compost spread, harley rake, etc.) Hydroseed is going down as we speak. I'll take pictures later tonight and post them so we'll have a baseline.

I have a lot of reading to do on weed control / fertilization in newly seeded lawns but with the soil test feedback and some of the posts in this thread, I think I have a pretty good idea of what I need to do this fall to be successful. The next 4 weeks is really all about watering and waiting.