Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
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Marinegrunt
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Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by Marinegrunt » May 10th, 2017, 3:45 pm

First off I want to thank everyone for making this forum such a great place to come for help. I've been a member of quite a few different forums and this one definitely has some of the most helpful members out there.

I finally got my soil test results back so I figured I'd start a reno thread so I can start preparing for my fall seeding. Our lawn is currently grass free. Last summer I cut down a whole lot of pine trees (20+) that were never cared for, got rid of stumps, dug in new water service line, drain tile, and leveled yard. By the time everything wad done it wad too late to seed so decided to wait until this fall. I want to start getting everything ready so I'm not jumping through hoops at the last minute.

Soil test results are here. viewtopic.php?f=11&t=22444

I'm sure my soil needs some help before seeding this fall.

I decided to go with Hogan's tttf blend + 10% kbg and it should be here tomorrow. It took me forever to decide. I personally like kbg more but I showed my wife some pictures of tttf and kbg lawns and decided to let her choose hoping it would get her more involved. We will see if that happens. I won't be holding my breath on that one.

I have about 9000k to seed. I'm contemplating installing an irrigation system. I know it would make things so much easier. I have too many other projects right now so if I could keep it under $1k I'll probably do it. If I install one I'll be doing it myself. I've reading through the irrigationtutorial site and trying to line things out.

Besides the irrigation supplies, what else should I start purchasing now? I plan on getting some Tenacity, peat moss, starter fertilizer, and stockpiling milorganite when it's on sale. I am going to get a backpack sprayer.

I'll get some pictures up sometime in the future so you can see what lies ahead. I cannot wait to have grass. It's been dirt since maybe last July and was pretty much weeds before that. I almost seeded last month but reading on here kept me from doing so. Plus, I figured it would give me a change to get my soil headed in the right direction. I'm not sure how bad it actually is though. Seems like there's a bunch of clay but, after reading a bunch of Andy's posts, I'm probably wrong about that.

Any tips, tricks, or anything else is appreciated!

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by Michael303 » May 10th, 2017, 10:17 pm

I'm sure people do it but I couldn't imagine reseeding without irrigation.

Unless I missed it you might consider starting early with the Best Lawn Kelp Help and Soil Conditioner too.

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by ezael » May 11th, 2017, 8:39 am

It seems like you have done your research and are fine tuning your plans, which is great. But I would highly recommend installing the irrigation. An irrigation system installed yourself can easily be done for 1k. Keeping those seeds consistently moist for the first couple weeks is crucial for good germination. I would hate to see you spend all this money, time, and effort into this project just to end up with poor results due to missing a watering or uneven coverage. You will be kicking yourself in the end.

Either way we're glad your here.

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by Marinegrunt » May 11th, 2017, 11:07 am

Sounds like i should continue with the irrigation plans. I know how big of a pain it is to drag around hoses and move sprinklers.

I received my Hogan tttf blend this morning. It doesn't have Falcon IV or Turbo like others have mentioned in the past but maybe they mixed it for my area. It has Firewall, Cochise IV, Bullseye, LS 1200, and Houndog 8. They also added in some NuGlade at about 10%. I wonder if I should mix in one other kbg cultivar? I can't find much info on Houndog 8 but all of the other tttf's seem to be excellent.

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by fusebox7 » May 11th, 2017, 12:53 pm

Just remember that 10% KBG by weight is going to be around 50:50 seed count. If you add more KBG it will dominate the stand. Not a bad thing but making sure you know.


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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by Marinegrunt » May 11th, 2017, 1:26 pm

Thanks for mentioning that fusebox. I wanted some kbg mixed in for its spreading capabilities. I was just thinking it might be a good idea to have a couple different kinds in case one died off for some reason. When Hogan said they could mix some nuglade into their tttf + 10% kbg mix I assumed they would've still used the kbg they normally mix in plus add some nuglade. I just wanted some kbg that had better shade tolerance. I think I'll probably just leave it the way it is. If I want more kbg in the future I'll try overseeding or just do another reno.

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by Marinegrunt » June 24th, 2017, 11:01 am

I need some advice on what to do about a bunch of small rocks in the yard. The yard is completely dirt right now. No grass at all. Most of the rocks are less than 1". I can hand pick the bigger ones. I've been killing the small amount of weeds that pop up every now and then. I plan on seeding around mid August.

My options are hand raking and picking or using a harley rake. I have about 8k but i would say the rocks are on about 6k of the yard. I am going to have to level a few small spots again due to erosion and another tree removal. I plan on doing that mid July or the last week of July to give me about 2-4 weeks of killing off anymore weeds or grass that pop up. The longer I can wait the less erosion but I can fix that by hand before seeding. I just don't know if I should use a harley rake and disturb the whole yard again bringing up more weed seeds or if it's worth it to get more of the rock out.

Any opinions are appreciated.

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by ezael » June 24th, 2017, 1:30 pm

Get the bigger rocks out. Smaller ones aren't a big deal, and stirring up a few weed seeds isent the end of the world. Your bound to get a few weeds pop up with new lawn but those will be dealt with later. Don't sweat the small stuff focus on being ready for seed down date and having enough time.

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by andy10917 » June 24th, 2017, 1:44 pm

stirring up a few weed seeds isent the end of the world. Your bound to get a few weeds pop up with new lawn but those will be dealt with later.
It's amazing how fast we all forget. In the BT era (Before Tenacity), renovations were big weedpiles that you then fought to build the lawn from. That was only 6 years ago.

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by ezael » June 24th, 2017, 1:56 pm

andy10917 wrote:
June 24th, 2017, 1:44 pm
stirring up a few weed seeds isent the end of the world. Your bound to get a few weeds pop up with new lawn but those will be dealt with later.
It's amazing how fast we all forget. In the BT era (Before Tenacity), renovations were big weedpiles that you then fought to build the lawn from. That was only 6 years ago.
Can't forget what I never knew. But I respect those who came before me without tenacity.

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by Marinegrunt » June 24th, 2017, 3:19 pm

Thanks for putting my mind at ease. I've had a dirt yard since last year so I've been reading, reading, and reading some more. It just seems like not disturbing the soil is one of the #1 things mentioned. I guess every yard is different though. Tenacity was already ordered and here so good to go there. I'll just rake the bigger rocks, the larger concentrations of small rocks and call it good.

I cannot wait to have grass again.

Thanks for the help!

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by Marinegrunt » June 26th, 2017, 5:53 pm

Well, another project to take care of before the fall seeding. We have a Silver Maple near the back corner of the hose. There's a nice slit where it forks. The left side, which would be the side to fall, would be a direct hit on the house and ac unit. There is all kinds of damage from ants. I can stick a 15" screw driver into the slit and move it around. I feel more rot so could probably go deeper with more probing. The slit runs from the base almost to the fork. There is also rot in the fork and can jab a screwdriver about 5" into that. I hate to lose it but I'm not a big fan of Silver Maples and atleast I'll get more sun in the back. It might even be enough to do kbg in the future if I ever want to switch from the tttf I'm seeding this fall.

I'm sure there are ways to where I could keep it but I don't like it enough to throw money at it. Plus, it splitting and falling onto our master bedroom while sleeping would always be in the back of my mind. We get weird winds too. You wouldn't think we would. We live on end of a cul de sac. On our side of the road we have a deep wooded ravine with a bunch of tall trees. The neighbors across the street have the same. The cul de sac is kind of on a point that sticks out on a small 96 acre lake but it's surrounded by trees. The wind just seems to swirl over the trees and it sure does get strong. I figure I'd just take it down for peace of mind. Plus, it gives me a chance to get the Stihl out.

The house is just out of picture to the left. Tree is about 20' from the corner of the house.

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by Marinegrunt » August 20th, 2017, 10:43 am

I'm about 6 days away from seed down day. I had to do some additional leveling after removing a couple more trees so I wanted to fallow again for atleast 10-14 days. I live in Central IL so I don't think a week or two past mid August will hurt anything. I did not end up installing irrigation which kind of stinks. I had too much else going on so didn't have time. I do have enough sprinklers to where I'll be able to water the entire 8k without having to drag or move any hoses or sprinklers around. Moving hoses and sprinklers numerous times a day was not gonna happen!

I hope we don't get much rain until after my seed germinates. Almost every part of the yard has some sort of slope to it. I may slit seed the side but it depends on the rain in the forecast.

I cannot wait to get seed down and grass growing!

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by probasesteal » August 20th, 2017, 5:31 pm

I've always had good luck with sprinklers and programmable timers.

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by Marinegrunt » August 21st, 2017, 10:15 am

I have 7 zones right now. I think I'm going to pick up two of the 4 zone timers like SyNTaxx has. It'll make it so much easier. In the future, once all the landscaping is done, I could probably hide an above ground irrigation system within the beds. The side yard is about 60' wide so would need to find rotors that could cover close to that. I just bought a bunch of cheap plastic impulse for now. At $2.50 a piece I figured it would be cheaper than buying rotors. I probably wouldn't have needed as many tho.

I haven't posted any pictures of the yard yet. You can tell by looking at the soil that it's awful. Our other house was about 1/2 mile from here was was perfect black loam.

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by edenl01 » August 21st, 2017, 1:23 pm

I think the rotors might be worth the investment. Last year I started with cheap impacts. The problem I had was puddling. They puddle like crazy. I ended up trying to time my lengths of watering around what would or would not make them puddle and meanwhile the rest of the coverage area suffered. I found some brass orbit impacts that were about $10 each at lowes and I love them and they don't puddle at all. Just some things to think about.

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by smast16 » August 21st, 2017, 8:37 pm

I bought rotors for my reno and use a melnor 4 zone timer as well. Imapct sprinklers are my weekly drivers for irrigation, but I found they have too large a water droplet and in the first few weeks I feel it was just too harsh. The rotors are much more delicate.

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by Marinegrunt » August 22nd, 2017, 11:27 am

I know what you mean about the puddles the impacts leave. They showed up quick when testing the sprinkler spacing. I also see the large droplets. Adjusting the screw at the end helps some but not enough.

I might end up installing an inground system down the road. I guess I could go ahead and buy some rainbird rotors that I would use and just use then above ground for now. As of now I have 18 impact sprinklers. If I'm going to spend a couple hundred on sprinklers it would be nice to put it towards an inground system if I end up doing it in a few years.

Would I be able to rig up rainbird or Hunter pgp pop ups above ground?

On a side note. I'm really glad I pushed my seed date after the 15th. We had 2" of heavy rain. With all the slopes I probably would've lost about 80% of the seed.

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by smast16 » August 22nd, 2017, 1:03 pm

I used Hunter PGP's on spikes and attach via garden hose. You can see a pic of my setup under my Reno thread. If you're going to keep the heads, i'd recommend getting the 3/4 inlet and just getting a 1/2 to 3/4 adapter (sold at big box stores). Most impact heads can be removed from the base and it's 1/2 inlet at the sprinkler base.

If your spike base allows you to connect another sprinkler, you can usually chain 3 or 4 together with hoses. This of course is dependent on your PSI and GPM at the hose bib as well as the GPM flow nozzles you put in the hunters. For a simple DYI to get you through seeding i think its a great option. If i go forward, next year i might change mine up for some PE pipe connection between the units and make PVC bases with 3/4 inlets. I do lose a lot of PSI with my setup, but again, it's just a down and dirty solution to give me soft droplets through this seeding process.

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Re: Marinegrunt's 2017 Fall Renovation

Post by Marinegrunt » August 22nd, 2017, 2:20 pm

I'll take a look at your garden hose/rotor setup smast. Sounds easy enough. I wasn't sure how pop up rotors attached to the water supply.

As of right now I have 4 sprinklers per zone. I have a total of 7 zones. I tried running everything off my hose spigot at first but could only run 2-3 impacts with 3 not shooting very far. I ended up tapping into my water main with 3/4 pex and used a full port ball valve for the shutoff. I went from 8 gpm to 16 gpm. If I went with the pro rotors I could probably get by with one or two more per zone.

I almost did the poly or pvc instead of garden hose. I ran the 3/4" pex to a centralized location so each run of garden hose wouldn't be too long. I'm sure I'd gain more gpm at the sprinklers if I did the poly like you are planning on doing. I couldn't believe the difference with just running the pex.

If I go with the pgp rotors I might be able to run everything on the side of the yard to where I won't have any hose or pipe running through the seeded areas. We have a spare wooded lot on the side and a ravine in the back. I could run along there and in flower beds. Might be a problem along the road but the other rotors might reach. We live on a cul de sac so i could probably get away with having them on the edge of the road.

The soil is awful here. For living in farm country I've never seen this type. Our previous houses had nice black dirt. Too many rocks here. I raked the bigger rocks along with the ones that were loose. After the heavy rain, and a little erosion, there are a lot more. Every time I rake I disturb the ground but I want to atleast get them off the surface. I do have Tenacity tho. Since I'm somewhat disturbing the soil I'm tempted to slit seed the slope and the ditch. I'm really worried about washouts.

I'm sick of rocks.






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