Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
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Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
Back for round two. Tried to hydroseed last year and it was a spectacular failure. Gory details here - viewtopic.php?f=13&t=20878
What am I doing differently this year?
1. No compost
2. No hydroseed - will spread seed and lay peat moss on top
3. Fallow period - which I did not do last year
4. Prayers to the rain god so that I do not get monsoon levels of rain like I did last year
Starting a 100sf test plot this weekend so that by August I'll have a sense as to whether the KBG is actually growing this time around.
EXTRA long fallow period to begin soon. I'm thinking first Glyphosate app in late June / early July and then fallow for six weeks. Not sure if this will get Poa to germinate or if it only germinates in September?
What am I doing differently this year?
1. No compost
2. No hydroseed - will spread seed and lay peat moss on top
3. Fallow period - which I did not do last year
4. Prayers to the rain god so that I do not get monsoon levels of rain like I did last year
Starting a 100sf test plot this weekend so that by August I'll have a sense as to whether the KBG is actually growing this time around.
EXTRA long fallow period to begin soon. I'm thinking first Glyphosate app in late June / early July and then fallow for six weeks. Not sure if this will get Poa to germinate or if it only germinates in September?
- ezael
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
I'm rooting for ya bud!
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- HoosierLawnGnome
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
Yes, you can do 12K by yourself. I did 4-5 X that last fall by myself, unless you count my young children as helpers I wouldn't do it the way I did it again, though - I cut corners like raking up dead material and top dressing in several places and had to redo them.
BUT - it feels OH SO GOOD not to be undertaking another large renovation this fall.
With that said - if you are nervous about pulling it off and have the budget, I would find some equipment to help you rake up the dead material (biggest job in my opinion that is probably the most important too), make sure you have a roller to pull around, and rent a peat moss spreader for a day.
I did mine by hand - TWICE in some spots - and really wish I'd found the right equipment to do it all right the first time at the same time. I was fortunate to have the time to spend with a rake and a strong back.
Use that 100 sf test plot instead of pots this fall One less thing you have to do later.
BUT - it feels OH SO GOOD not to be undertaking another large renovation this fall.
With that said - if you are nervous about pulling it off and have the budget, I would find some equipment to help you rake up the dead material (biggest job in my opinion that is probably the most important too), make sure you have a roller to pull around, and rent a peat moss spreader for a day.
I did mine by hand - TWICE in some spots - and really wish I'd found the right equipment to do it all right the first time at the same time. I was fortunate to have the time to spend with a rake and a strong back.
Use that 100 sf test plot instead of pots this fall One less thing you have to do later.
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
12,000 sqft isn't bad, I did 13,000 sqft last year by myself. I would definitely invest in a compost/peat moss spreader. I bought one on line for $120. The actual day of spreading the seed and compost took me 5 hours total. Two key things that I would recommend:
1) Make sure one week after applying Round Up you scalp the lawn on the shortest setting your mower will go. Go over your lawn at least 2 times in different directions to make sure you pick up all the grass. Don't wait until all the grass is dead before scalping in case it rains hard and the grass lays over! Then a day or two before you spread the seed, go over the lawn again with the mower just to make sure all the dead grass is picked up. Then throw the blade away, it will be wasted from all the high spots you will hit. And also make sure you clean the air filter on your mower several times from all the dust that will come up. I had to clean mine at least 3 times. Then throw it out afterwards and buy a new one.
2) Kill off your existing lawn as soon as you can, this will give you more time for fallowing. With what you went through last time, I would consider killing it now.
Good luck, and I'm sure it will turn out great.
1) Make sure one week after applying Round Up you scalp the lawn on the shortest setting your mower will go. Go over your lawn at least 2 times in different directions to make sure you pick up all the grass. Don't wait until all the grass is dead before scalping in case it rains hard and the grass lays over! Then a day or two before you spread the seed, go over the lawn again with the mower just to make sure all the dead grass is picked up. Then throw the blade away, it will be wasted from all the high spots you will hit. And also make sure you clean the air filter on your mower several times from all the dust that will come up. I had to clean mine at least 3 times. Then throw it out afterwards and buy a new one.
2) Kill off your existing lawn as soon as you can, this will give you more time for fallowing. With what you went through last time, I would consider killing it now.
Good luck, and I'm sure it will turn out great.
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
Thanks guys. I will consider renting/buying a peat moss spreader. Sounds like it is a doable one man job.
As far as dead material, I was hoping that it wouldn't require too much raking as the current "lawn" is thin and hasn't been established long and has always been bagged not mulched....so no thatch layer exists. I'll have to play it by ear though as I know seed to soil contact is key. I'll probably just bite the bullet and hand rake with a leaf rake if needed.
Hooser....what did you mean by roller? I assume the (highly simplified) renovation steps were as follows and didn't know where a lawn roller fit in.
1. Roundup, fallow, scalp, roundup.
2. Rake dead material
3. Spread seed
4. Spread starter fertilizer
5. Spread peat moss
6. Spray tenacity
7. Water
As far as dead material, I was hoping that it wouldn't require too much raking as the current "lawn" is thin and hasn't been established long and has always been bagged not mulched....so no thatch layer exists. I'll have to play it by ear though as I know seed to soil contact is key. I'll probably just bite the bullet and hand rake with a leaf rake if needed.
Hooser....what did you mean by roller? I assume the (highly simplified) renovation steps were as follows and didn't know where a lawn roller fit in.
1. Roundup, fallow, scalp, roundup.
2. Rake dead material
3. Spread seed
4. Spread starter fertilizer
5. Spread peat moss
6. Spray tenacity
7. Water
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
[quote=greenrebellion post_id=308741 time=1496859276 user_id=6641
As far as dead material, I was hoping that it wouldn't require too much raking as the current "lawn" is thin and hasn't been established long and has always been bagged not mulched....so no thatch layer exists.
Mulching doesn't cause thatch to build up. Improper lawn care causes thatch.
If you scalp the lowest setting your mower can go, not much raking should be needed. There will be certain parts that will need some hand raking but it's part of the deal when doing a renovation like you are doing.
The roller is to press the seed into the soil before putting down the peat moss. Not absolutely necessary but encouraged. You should be able to rent one.
As far as dead material, I was hoping that it wouldn't require too much raking as the current "lawn" is thin and hasn't been established long and has always been bagged not mulched....so no thatch layer exists.
Mulching doesn't cause thatch to build up. Improper lawn care causes thatch.
If you scalp the lowest setting your mower can go, not much raking should be needed. There will be certain parts that will need some hand raking but it's part of the deal when doing a renovation like you are doing.
The roller is to press the seed into the soil before putting down the peat moss. Not absolutely necessary but encouraged. You should be able to rent one.
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
Thanks Paul. I will add rolling the seed in to my list of steps.
Anyone have any experience on the application rate of a peat moss spreader so that I can calculate how many cubic feet of peat moss to get?
Anyone have any experience on the application rate of a peat moss spreader so that I can calculate how many cubic feet of peat moss to get?
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
one week is way too long to wait to scalp after RU. Do it 2-4 days after the first spray.
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
Is there any particular reason you're waiting so long to go seed down? For your area, I'd do it much sooner, maybe mid-July. or even early July.greenrebellion wrote: ↑June 6th, 2017, 10:44 pmBack for round two. Tried to hydroseed last year and it was a spectacular failure. Gory details here - viewtopic.php?f=13&t=20878
What am I doing differently this year?
1. No compost
2. No hydroseed - will spread seed and lay peat moss on top
3. Fallow period - which I did not do last year
4. Prayers to the rain god so that I do not get monsoon levels of rain like I did last year
Starting a 100sf test plot this weekend so that by August I'll have a sense as to whether the KBG is actually growing this time around.
EXTRA long fallow period to begin soon. I'm thinking first Glyphosate app in late June / early July and then fallow for six weeks. Not sure if this will get Poa to germinate or if it only germinates in September?
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
Is it possible to fallow to early or longer the better?
- fusebox7
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
Spring flush is probably the best time to kill everything since you want it to be in hyper-growth mode for a better kill. Also, make sure to kill everything before summer dormancy - especially Poa Annua and Poa Trivialis since they will die off or go dormant in the summer heat.
ie. the longer the better, assuming you can do so. For me, I made a personal choice to seed now in order to prevent erosion on my large slopes (7 foot differential over 30 feet).
ie. the longer the better, assuming you can do so. For me, I made a personal choice to seed now in order to prevent erosion on my large slopes (7 foot differential over 30 feet).
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
If you are going to entertain an extended or longer fallow I highly suggest you water it like it's the real deal. Water the sh!t out of it. If you kill it all off and just let it sit all dry and cracked it will amount to a huge waste of time and not good results. Ask me how I know. That is the biggest piece of advice I'd give.
Also if you are due for a soil amendment it'd be a good time to drop that since buring the lawn in summer heat is not an issue.
Also if you are due for a soil amendment it'd be a good time to drop that since buring the lawn in summer heat is not an issue.
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
Sounds good, I'll probably start the fallow at the end of June / early July...don't want to fallow too long for erosion concern reasons. Plust it hasn't rained around here in 3 weeks and I stopped watering because I had given up on the lawn so I need to water everything good now to get the "lawn" growing again and then nuke it with glyphosate.edenl01 wrote: ↑June 8th, 2017, 10:02 amIf you are going to entertain an extended or longer fallow I highly suggest you water it like it's the real deal. Water the sh!t out of it. If you kill it all off and just let it sit all dry and cracked it will amount to a huge waste of time and not good results. Ask me how I know. That is the biggest piece of advice I'd give.
Also if you are due for a soil amendment it'd be a good time to drop that since buring the lawn in summer heat is not an issue.
I have a long list of equipment/supplies that I am building (included the list below). I had a question on what kind of rake to use if I have to rake the dead material. Leaf rakes work? And if I end up renting a machine from Home Depot, anyone have any experience with those? I assume a simple power rake or de-thatcher will work?
Need to buy:
Soil Moist Seed Coat
KBG Seed from Seed Superstore
Peat Moss (still need to determine application rate of peat moss spreader so I know how many bales)
Starter Fertilizer
Glyphosate
Some Leveling soil for a couple of minor ruts
Groundskeeper II rake or Peat Moss Spreader
Lawn Roller (will rent)
Already own:
Lesco Spreader with spreader mate for herbicide app
Tenacity
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
I don't think the tines on Groundskeeper II rake would help with spreading peat moss, unless you or someone have experience with it.
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
Why do you want to use a de-thatcher? Your just going to bring up more Poa seeds to germinate. Is your soil hard? Have you tried the screwdriver test? You could always liquid aerate if necessary. That's what I did last year before I renovated. I used aerafy Plus.greenrebellion wrote: ↑June 8th, 2017, 7:45 pmI assume a simple power rake or de-thatcher will work?
As far as the Peat moss, I used 17 bales for 13,000 sqft. for my renovation.
And don't wait on the seed, order it now. Depending on the cultivar you pick, they could be out of it.
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
Ok, I'll hand rake the dead material so as to minimize soil disturbance. Still looking for a rake recommendation if anyone has one.Paul wrote: ↑June 9th, 2017, 8:18 amWhy do you want to use a de-thatcher? Your just going to bring up more Poa seeds to germinate. Is your soil hard? Have you tried the screwdriver test? You could always liquid aerate if necessary. That's what I did last year before I renovated. I used aerafy Plus.greenrebellion wrote: ↑June 8th, 2017, 7:45 pmI assume a simple power rake or de-thatcher will work?
As far as the Peat moss, I used 17 bales for 13,000 sqft. for my renovation.
And don't wait on the seed, order it now. Depending on the cultivar you pick, they could be out of it.
My soil is very hard so when I lay down seed, I'll make sure soil is somewhat moist and roll it in. I'll also be buying the ingredients for the Best Lawn soil conditioner and applying that every two weeks until seed down - need to add these items to my shopping list. I assume Best Lawn Soil Conditioner and Aerify Plus do similar things?
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
Here is the tentative schedule I'll be running with. I am mailing my soil test this morning so depending on feedback from that once I get the results, I'll incorporate any recommended soil amendments into the plan below.
June 10 – Roundup test plot areas, gather soil for updated soil test
June 15 – Seed test plot areas
July 1 – Glyphosate entire property
July 3/4 – Scalp Mow
July 8 – Best Lawn Soil Conditioner
July 15 – Glyphosate entire property
July 22 – Best Lawn Soil Conditioner
August 5 – Glyphosate entire property
August 9 – Best Lawn Soil Conditioner & Soil leveling where necessary
August 10 – Rake Property to remove dead material
August 11 – Rent truck to pick up peat moss & lawn roller
August 12 – Seed down date (seed, roll, fertilize, tenacity, peat moss, water)
August 13 – Finish peat moss if run out of time on the 12th
June 10 – Roundup test plot areas, gather soil for updated soil test
June 15 – Seed test plot areas
July 1 – Glyphosate entire property
July 3/4 – Scalp Mow
July 8 – Best Lawn Soil Conditioner
July 15 – Glyphosate entire property
July 22 – Best Lawn Soil Conditioner
August 5 – Glyphosate entire property
August 9 – Best Lawn Soil Conditioner & Soil leveling where necessary
August 10 – Rake Property to remove dead material
August 11 – Rent truck to pick up peat moss & lawn roller
August 12 – Seed down date (seed, roll, fertilize, tenacity, peat moss, water)
August 13 – Finish peat moss if run out of time on the 12th
- HoosierLawnGnome
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
HoosierDaddy top dressed his renovation with a peat moss roller - might see his renovation thread for how much he used.
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Re: Greenrebellion's Fall 2017 Renovation
Be sure to water the soil conditioners in well. Also, it's best to start out with a good load of moisture in the soil profile at seed down so give it a good deep watering the day(s) before.greenrebellion wrote: ↑June 9th, 2017, 8:28 amOk, I'll hand rake the dead material so as to minimize soil disturbance. Still looking for a rake recommendation if anyone has one.Paul wrote: ↑June 9th, 2017, 8:18 amWhy do you want to use a de-thatcher? Your just going to bring up more Poa seeds to germinate. Is your soil hard? Have you tried the screwdriver test? You could always liquid aerate if necessary. That's what I did last year before I renovated. I used aerafy Plus.greenrebellion wrote: ↑June 8th, 2017, 7:45 pmI assume a simple power rake or de-thatcher will work?
As far as the Peat moss, I used 17 bales for 13,000 sqft. for my renovation.
And don't wait on the seed, order it now. Depending on the cultivar you pick, they could be out of it.
My soil is very hard so when I lay down seed, I'll make sure soil is somewhat moist and roll it in. I'll also be buying the ingredients for the Best Lawn soil conditioner and applying that every two weeks until seed down - need to add these items to my shopping list. I assume Best Lawn Soil Conditioner and Aerify Plus do similar things?
Re: dethatching, the seed needs to get to the soil so if you do have a thatch buildup you need to get rid of it. What you use to de-thatch will depend on how thick it is and how much manual effort you are willing to use.
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