Removing sod for Reno.

[Fronta1]

I've looked at a lot of renos on here and most are just scalp and sprays, no removal of the sod, and I'm just curious why. My first instinct when thinking about a full Reno is removing the sod first, adding amendments, tilling, and rolling. Is it just cuz it's a big pain in the [banned word]? It is a big undertaking, and not 100% necessary in order to get results, I get that. I read someone say it uncovers weeds seeds. Ok, fine, can't you just do pre m? In my mind the benefit of removing the sod, getting at the soil and tilling in some amendments far outweighs the fact that you'll have to deal with some unearthed weed seeds. Am I missing something or is it just the fact that it is a big undertaking and not 100% necessary? Thanks, guys (and gals).

[turf_toes]

I've looked at a lot of renos on here and most are just scalp and sprays, no removal of the sod, and I'm just curious why. My first instinct when thinking about a full Reno is removing the sod first, adding amendments, tilling, and rolling. Is it just cuz it's a big pain in the [banned word]? It is a big undertaking, and not 100% necessary in order to get results, I get that. I read someone say it uncovers weeds seeds. Ok, fine, can't you just do pre m? In my mind the benefit of removing the sod, getting at the soil and tilling in some amendments far outweighs the fact that you'll have to deal with some unearthed weed seeds. Am I missing something or is it just the fact that it is a big undertaking and not 100% necessary? Thanks, guys (and gals).

Have you ever removed sod? I have. Even with a sod cutter it is a tremendous amount of work. If your renovation is a tiny postage stamp lot, you might be able to do it. But I wouldn't do it on my yard.

Where are you going to put the "sod" after you cut it?

You realize you're taking the top layer of your soil along with the sod, right?

You realize your new lawn is going to be bumpy because you tilled it, right?

You also realize that your Reno is going to fail because the pre-emergent is going to do a nice job killing your new grass seed, right?

[Fronta1]

K, gotcha. Next question: how long does it take for old crown/root structure to decay?

[Fronta1]

Also, is there another type of herbicide that would prevent the weed seeds from germinating while allowing the grass seed? Ty

[Fronta1]

And just to answer your question, I did rent a kick behind to do a 500 sq ft area once, and yes it was a pita but bumps and weeds were not a problem.

[turf_toes]

That depends on the grass you're killing. If it's Zoysia, it can take months. A northern grass like Tall Fescue or Rye? maybe a few weeks.

I've done maybe a dozen renovations over the years. In my experience if prepped right, the old dead grass eliminates the need to put down straw or other top dressing.

But it's important that you do it the right way.

Kill the grass, wait four days. Scalp it. Remove the loose grass (from scalping)and leave the grass stubble (about an inch or less) in place.

After you seed and begin watering, that stubble will lay over and act as a natural top dressing.

In my experience, you get better germination doing it this way over seeding into bare soil.

[turf_toes]

And just to answer your question, I did rent a kick behind to do a 500 sq ft area once, and yes it was a pita but bumps and weeds were not a problem.

It sounds like you already have decided you've got the answers you wanted to hear.

Good luck with your renovation.

[turf_toes]

Also, is there another type of herbicide that would prevent the weed seeds from germinating while allowing the grass seed? Ty

I suspect you mean tenacity. I'm just I'm not sure why you'd ask a question to which you already know the answer.,.

[kevreh]

Turf-toes,

When renovating do you ever aerate with the shampoo method or an aerator? Some parts of my yard are more dense than others.

[turf_toes]

I've done about a dozen renovations and have used multiple approaches.

(Slitseeders, dethatchers, broadcast spreader with no soil prep, etc)

I only used the dethatcher when renovating an established zoysia lawn to KBG.

I doubt I'd ever consider using it to renovate a existing cool-season lawn. They just don't have thatch problems like you see with warm-season lawns.

[kevreh]

Good to know, I actually meant core aeration. Which I know is kind of frowned upon around here. I'm going to use tenacity so wouldn't have to worry about weed seeds being kicked up.

[turf_toes]

I've never used core aeration -- ever. I have never seen a need for it.

You'll need to get advice from someone else for that.