Help refine my seed mix

[Fronta1]

At the time of typing this I'm very confident in the varieties I've selected, but I thought it would be a good idea to reach out and make sure there wasnt something I hadn't thought of. My two main goals for this mix are to make as beautiful lawn as possible while having excellent drought tolerance. (I know, novel right). At first I thought I wanted 100% tttf but have added prg and kbg after learning of the added benefits they add. I've come to 50% tttf, 25% prg, and 25% kbg. Specifically, 50% 4th millennium, 25% pangea, and 25% bewitched. I live in northwest Indiana close to lake Michigan. The yard, 12k sq ft, has good soil and is about 50% full sun, 25% part sun, and 25% shade. My main questions are: does anyone have any experience with 4th millennium or would you recommend a different variety? 2. I'm not a big fan of blue grass, so would anyone recommend a kbg that is more green? 3. What do you think about the percentages? Thanks

[llO0DQLE]

Regarding PRG and KBG, read about allelopathy.

[Marinegrunt]

I'm going with a tttf + 10% kbg for my reno this fall. I was told that 10% kbg will give me about a 50/50 mix. It's due to the fact the kbg seed is so much smaller you something like 5 times as many seeds compared to fescue. Just something to check into or atleast think about especially if you don't care for kbg.

I went with Hogan's Blend which consists of Firewall, Cochise IV, Bullseye, LS 1200, and Houndog 8. They also added in 10% of NuGlade. I wanted Bewitched but they didn't carry but added the NuGlade free of charge. I read that NuGlade is similar to Bewitched so just went with it.

[andy10917]

10% KBG seed will yield a 1:1 seed count. True.

Adding more than 20% PRG to a mix yields a story that is very sad for the KBG. Don't ask me how I know that.

[Fronta1]

I should state that I'm aware of the weight difference. Those percentages are for desired final stand coverage. Actual ratio by weight would be about 5-2-1. I was planning on overseeding 12k sq ft so I was going to go with 27lbs tttf, 10.5lbs prg, and 5.25lbs kbg. Do you guys think that would work?

[g-man]

I don't think it will work. You could forget about kbg in an overseed even at 100%. A lot of us have tried, without much success.

[edenl01]

If you are overseeding and not concerned with how much kbg there is in your "final stand" then why spend the money on the kbg in the first place?

[Marinegrunt]

If you're unsure of the varieties of your current lawn I don't think I'd worry about varieties too much and probably just by a decent northern mix to overseed. Unless your lawn is really bare the new seed isn't going to dominate.

You can still make your lawn look great though. If you're after the look of the varieties you mentioned above you're probably better off starting with a blank slate. The original grass will always be there unless you kill it off.

[Fronta1]

Ok, guys, thanks. If I overseed I'll go with a tttf/rye mix. I'll save the kbg for a full reno. And if I do a full reno I'll make sure I have at least a 3:1 kbg/rye ratio, if not forego the rye all together. Glad I asked, thanks guys.

[Fronta1]

Ugh. I posted this thread in an effort to find any "holes" in my theory. You guys blew it apart, thanks lol. After some further research on allelopathy and establishment of kbg it sounds like a mixed bag, pun intended. Is my dream of having a mix of the three really futile? I've been thinking of some different ideas to counteract these. If I were to start from scratch, what if I gave the kbg a head start on the yre. I could either lay down the kgb a few weeks before the rye. Or I could just go with a tttf/kbg mix and overseed with rye in the future. Thoughts?

[Marinegrunt]

I big reason rye is in seed mixtures is just because of its quick germination. Kind of a instant gratification seed. Personally, I'd just leave the rye out. It's all personal preference tho.

If you think you'll eventually reno to get the cultivars you want I wouldn't stress the overseed selection much. I know I already mentioned it but the cultivars of an overseed aren't going to dominate unless your lawn extremely bare. It probably won't look much different than it does now.

You could always order more seed and join the class of 2017 reno thread.

Seems like you might want to try the overseed though. You could always give it a go. If you're not pleased with the results go for a reno next fall or the year after. It would give you more time to plan and get things together.

[llO0DQLE]

Why do you want rye in your mix? One thing to think about a mix, whether it's 2 or 3 species, is that each specie will have different management requirements. Different fertilization, watering needs, pesticide limits, heat and drought tolerance etc.

[Fronta1]

Why do you want rye in your mix? One thing to think about a mix, whether it's 2 or 3 species, is that each specie will have different management requirements. Different fertilization, watering needs, pesticide limits, heat and drought tolerance etc.

Because of how good it looks.

[llO0DQLE]

I think those pics are 100% PR

[Jackpine]

PRG is a nice dark green. If it were me and I wanted that look, I would forget the TTTF and KBG and overseed with straight PRG. Your location should be well suited to it.

[fusebox7]

^ While true... one of his goals is: "...while having excellent drought tolerance." PRG needs water often - it can die out quickly with little or no irrigation in the summer heat. This is one of the reasons it requires overseeding every 1-2 years.

[Fronta1]

Thanks guys. After some research, I did find two or three separate studies showing that prg does have this effect on both kbg and tttf. Kind of a head scratcher when you consider the countless mixes that are out there that contain rye, which means that the majority of northern lawns out there end up predominantly rye. I mean, all of the individual plants are going to compete four space, regardless of species, and some of what I found did say a mix containing up to 20% rye was feasible, but it does kind of seems silly to plant a mix that contains a portion of seed that is actually going to inhibit the rest of your mix, giving you something completely different than what you started with. The studies also showed that tttf and kbg consistently compete with each other pretty evenly for the most part, so I'm thinking a mix of those is the way to go. Seems to be a pretty popular choice among other enthusiasts as well.

[fusebox7]

^ yes - and TTTF and KBG have similar leaf widths whereas PRG is much finer. You're making a wise decision.