aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
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ken-n-nancy
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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by ken-n-nancy » July 25th, 2017, 3:58 pm

aug0211 wrote:Thanks, ken-n-nancy. IIRC, your reno thread was one of the more impressionable ones that helped me decide to take the plunge :) I appreciate the advice!
I'm glad that you found one of our reno threads to be encouraging to have you take the plunge! Ironically, I don't know if I'm really happy with the final end-state on any of the renovations that we've performed! This is probably partly due to ever-increasing expectations on our part, but I also sometimes wonder if some of our efforts ended up being mis-steps, rather than forward steps...

In particular, maintaining our side lawn Bewitched monostand has been a challenge, as I had never before had to address a fungal issue. I don't think our side lawn has really yet exceeded the overall grass quality we had before we killed off the old lawn -- the side lawn definitely has a higher potential now, and has shown a few glimpses of greatness over the past year or so, but it hasn't yet lived up to that potential! We're hoping that we've now learned what we need to learn to attain that increased potential this fall...
aug0211 wrote:Unrelated note, no glypho tonight :( Battery needs an 8 hour charge and it's a bit too windy. Hoping for more luck tomorrow after work, otherwise, I'll be taking a day off work because I need to get going!
I didn't realize until reading above that you had not yet applied glyphosate, yet you have already lowered the cut significantly. There's a potential danger here -- glyphosate works best at killing plants that are actively growing. If your scalping of the lawn has stressed the grass enough to nearly kill it, but not quite, then it may survive the glyphosate application. Yes, this is very counter-intuitive, but that's the way it is.

If you're doing "germination watering" during the fallowing period for the better part of a month, I think you'll be fine. However, in the future, or for others reading in, it's preferable to not start lowering the height-of-cut in anticipation of the first spraying of glyphosate, but to keep cutting at the normal height until the glyphosate is applied.


Others have already answered most of your other questions, but I noticed one that had slipped by, of which I have a strong opinion, living up here in "the granite state"...
aug0211 wrote:I'm also a bit nervous about all of the rocks through the lawn; I'll be pulling out what I can of course. Knowing that there are more rocks than I'd like (from the original home construction, I'm sure), should I plan to get top dressing down before seed down, to help with a bit more quality dirt contact?
You want to start removing as many of those rocks as possible, starting now. There will never be a better time to remove rocks than when all of the grass is dead. No amount of top-dressing gets rid of the rocks that you already have in your soil. There are more than a handful of threads on this site every year of people taking a picture of a patch of their lawn where the grass just doesn't do well, somebody suggests they probe with a screwdriver or dig down to see what's there, and they find that area is all gravel -- you want to remove those rocks now, *before* you seed!

My suggestion would be to walk the (dead) lawn regularly, and remove any rock you can see that shows area the size of a dime or larger. Keep doing it until you aren't finding anymore rocks of that size. You will never have a better time to do this than now. Grass plants can't grow in the middle of the rock -- if you don't remove the rock, you will have a little hole in your lawn with no grass at that spot... (The only consolation is that it won't be a weed, though, either!)

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by aug0211 » July 25th, 2017, 10:08 pm

Thank you so much! I did still see solid growth with all the water the grass has been getting, so I'm optimistic.

I spent quite a bit of time picking up rocks today. WOW, that is going to be a process. Going to have to enroll the pregnant wife and 1.5 y/o son to help out with the de-rocking process, I think :-)

I got glypho done on the entire front and the property lines going to the back today. Whew - took longer than expected, it's just after 10 PM now and I'm just now rinsing my tank out. Thank goodness for great lighting in the dark to finish up! I'll have to finish the back tomorrow, it's simply too dark out now to keep going.

I haven't used tracker dye before - wow, that stuff is a life changer. Most here are probably very familiar with it, but for anyone who isn't - it made things much easier for a novice like myself. I plan to keep it on hand for all future liquid applications.

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by ken-n-nancy » July 26th, 2017, 10:15 am

I'm curious as to your target seed-down date? Through the process of annual renovations on our lawn here in New Hampshire for the prior 4 years, I think August 15th is the right seed-down date for Kentucky Bluegrass in southern NH. I presume your winter arrives significantly later (average first frost here is Sept 26th) and thus a later seed-down date could be tolerated (or maybe even preferred) there in Ohio. What are you planning?

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by aug0211 » July 28th, 2017, 8:47 pm

Hey ken-n-nancy,

From what I've read, Oct. 10 appears to be a reasonable estimate for frost (some sources saying as early as Oct 2 and others saying late Oct). I was originally thinking my seed down date would be Sept 1 (or close to). Then, I saw a post from Andy a week or two back in the official 2017 Reno Class Thread about getting started and it got me a bit anxious, so I thought about moving my date up a week or two to August week 2 or 3.

Perhaps I should stick to Sept week 1?

In unrelated news, I was pulling rocks today and pulled out a big one (about 6" long by 3" deep). Here's (photos attached) what I found under it - baby grubs? :-(

Should I get some GrubEx down tomorrow? Will that interfere with my seed down? I'm nervous about this - are those even baby grubs for sure, or something else? Tiny white things, about the size of a small grain of rice and definitely moving around. My last application of GrubEx was in May.

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by andy10917 » July 28th, 2017, 8:51 pm

I've lived in Columbus, OH and I'd personally go with mid-August. I have never seen a member write in October or November "I'd wish I had waited to later".


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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by aug0211 » July 28th, 2017, 9:01 pm

andy10917 wrote:
July 28th, 2017, 8:51 pm
I've lived in Columbus, OH and I'd personally go with mid-August. I have never seen a member write in October or November "I'd wish I had waited to later".
Ok, thanks Andy. I'll keep pushing forward. Ran out of glypho and dye - must have been applying at a higher rate than had calculated (embarrassed). Front and both sides done, just the back to go now (for round 1). I wish I were a week further along.

The amount of rocks I'm encountering is just crazy.

I'm watering for 5 minutes, 4x/day right now to fallow and encourage growth for the kill.

Compost spreader came in the mail today, I still need to purchase my peat moss and starter fert.

I still haven't decided 100% on whether or not to power rake. I'm nervous about thatch and not getting enough soil contact. I don't want to bring the weeds up - but am thinking if I do kill #2 next eeekend, I could do do a low mow on Friday, power rake Saturday, and glypho Sunday (that's August 6).

I think that gives me enough time to fallow for 1 more week after raking, a final kill on 8/13, then seed down 8/20.

Hoping for some feedback/input. I don't want to over complicate things and bring in tons of weeds, but I also want to be sure I have good soil contact. I don't think the previous owner ever dethatched or aerated based on the quality of the lawn when I moved in. I aerated last fall after moving in but that was it.

Thanks all!

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by andy10917 » July 28th, 2017, 9:25 pm

Don't worry so much about the soil contact - I've done many reno's and I scalp once and call it a day, and throw 1/8" to 1/4" of peat moss after seed-down -- no problems.

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by aug0211 » July 28th, 2017, 9:29 pm

andy10917 wrote:
July 28th, 2017, 9:25 pm
Don't worry so much about the soil contact - I've done many reno's and I scalp once and call it a day, and throw 1/8" to 1/4" of peat moss after seed-down -- no problems.
Ok, you definitely know better than I do! So... no raking, just scalping. Thanks Andy!!!

Any thoughts on the grubs or whatever those are?

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by aug0211 » July 30th, 2017, 9:54 am

I did end up putting down product for the grubs. Everything I read said no interference with germination (and no fertilizer or anything like that in it).

I'm getting nervous that I haven't started seeing my grass die off yet from the glypho.

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by andy10917 » July 30th, 2017, 10:00 am

How many days has the RU been down?

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by aug0211 » July 30th, 2017, 4:52 pm

andy10917 wrote:
July 30th, 2017, 10:00 am
How many days has the RU been down?
I've had to to spread it out over a couple of days, first sections were last Tuesday (7/25), then more areas Thursday, Friday, and the final area today.

I actually just started noticing progress in the sections that were done first. I'm feeling more optimistic now. What do you think?

Side note - I must be the world's slowest sprayer.

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by andy10917 » July 30th, 2017, 4:57 pm

In my experience 5-7 days is needed typically to see unmistakable evidence.

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by SNOWBOB11 » July 30th, 2017, 5:25 pm

Just a quick side point, remember you don't have to, and shouldn't, wait until the grass is fully brown to scalp imo. If you wait more than 5-6 days post ru the grass starts to mat a bit and it's more difficult to get a good scalp.

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by aug0211 » July 30th, 2017, 9:05 pm

Thanks, Andy and Snow Bob! I'll plan to get mowing (at least in the front section) tomorrow after work. It is clearly dying off now

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by llO0DQLE » July 30th, 2017, 11:27 pm

SNOWBOB11 wrote:
July 30th, 2017, 5:25 pm
Just a quick side point, remember you don't have to, and shouldn't, wait until the grass is fully brown to scalp imo. If you wait more than 5-6 days post ru the grass starts to mat a bit and it's more difficult to get a good scalp.
+ 1 million

One of the lessons I learned from my 2015 reno. I asked when to scalp and one answer said after 3-4 days, but I ignored the advice because a lot of other posts in other threads I found while doing a search stated 7 days or until the lawn was brown. I waited until it was all brown. The leaves were all matted down and my mower wasn't cutting much. I had to rake it all up. Pain. In. The. Butt. Good thing the reno area was only about 450 square feet or so.

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by aug0211 » July 31st, 2017, 8:34 am

llO0DQLE wrote:
July 30th, 2017, 11:27 pm
SNOWBOB11 wrote:
July 30th, 2017, 5:25 pm
Just a quick side point, remember you don't have to, and shouldn't, wait until the grass is fully brown to scalp imo. If you wait more than 5-6 days post ru the grass starts to mat a bit and it's more difficult to get a good scalp.
+ 1 million

One of the lessons I learned from my 2015 reno. I asked when to scalp and one answer said after 3-4 days, but I ignored the advice because a lot of other posts in other threads I found while doing a search stated 7 days or until the lawn was brown. I waited until it was all brown. The leaves were all matted down and my mower wasn't cutting much. I had to rake it all up. Pain. In. The. Butt. Good thing the reno area was only about 450 square feet or so.
Thanks! Tonight, I plan to scalp the sections that I sprayed last Tuesday - just started truly looking dead yesterday.

Thoughts on how long I need to wait on each section? For example, I sprayed the entire backyard yesterday - so it still looks green and healthy. That said, we're getting rain Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. Should I plan to do scalp back on Tuesday?

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by SNOWBOB11 » July 31st, 2017, 11:04 am

If it was me I would scalp on Tuesday. I think I read on here somewhere that someone scalped 14 hours after applying round up so 2 days would be more than enough imo.

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by aug0211 » July 31st, 2017, 9:14 pm

Scalped the first section tonight, double cut (cross-cut) on lowest setting, bagging of course.

I'm a bit concerned that I don't see enough of my soil. Photos attached from a distance and some up close as well. I tried to keep my shoe in view for perspective of how close I was in each photo.

Thoughts? Should I be as nervous as I am, or is this normal?


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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by aug0211 » July 31st, 2017, 9:16 pm

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Re: aug0211's Newbie Midwest Reno (Bewitched)

Post by aug0211 » July 31st, 2017, 9:19 pm

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