Lawn reno on a shoestring budget! Please do not flame!

[jfoege]

Hi everyone!

I've been doing a lot of reading online at various ways to renovate lawns. Some people say you can just core-aerate the living crap out of the patch of brown thatch that you glyphosate'd, rotary spread starter fertilizer and seed, then drag with a mat and water as per normal. You may get a bit of a pluggy "baby doll head" look but it will fill in. Some say, NO! slit seeding is the only way to go! Some say, you have to rent a verticutter and slice up the soil and do it that way.

I'm sure I'm going to get flamed hardcore in this post. But, I can't spend any money and I have 12,500 sq. ft. to renovate. I realize that what I've been given to work with (a shoestring budget on the parents 12.5k "lawn") is extremely far from optimal. I'm looking to rack all of your brains here, because I've got just this season and next to get the "lawn" halfway acceptable for selling the house.

So if anyone loves a challenge in how to get the most bang for your buck, I'd really appreciate any and all input and suggestions.

I'll try to break it down quickly:

* Connecticut Zone 5-6. Tough call, I'm technically zone 6, but at 1000ft above seal level. First frost approx Oct 5-10.

* Soil is sandy, sandy, sandy, sandy loam w/ approx 2-3% OM. 25ppm P is low. K is fine. Ca and Mg fine. I live on a Charlton soil (I believe). It's mainly just sandy loam with lots of cobbles, boulders, stones, etc. I live on a mountain face. It's terrible. I'm a Connecticut "rock farmer". Best in town. Everyone I put the spade in, I harvest more rock!

* Section A: 6250 sq. ft. of mainly dandelions, cinquefoil, unknown grassy cultivars, creeping charlie, spurge, oxalis, purslane - you name it, I've got it. Compacted to hell. Some a**hole landscape backfilled my parents yard w/ UNSCREENED FILL and destroyed it. I've been digging like a madman trying to remove the biggest offenders. Literally finding pieces of old road, big concrete blocks w/ rebar, old bricks, etc. I'm mortified.

* Section B: 6250 sq. ft. of a pretty patchy, thin, mossy, terrible, compacted mess of a lawn in all the other sections. Mainly sand. Some moron landscaper backfilled the backyard with beach sand. I'm mortified - although less so, because at least I have a relativly clear root zone. I can grow anything in sand with enough fertilizer and water! However, also many sections that are not sand and very compacted.

* A well that can give 10+ GPM and never quit. Lucked out.

* Budget of $500 and all the time in the world

I've decided there is no way I can get all 12.5k done by myself. Just the watering alone is going to be too much. I have a 90ft hose, a sprinkler, a great well, and time. But, I decided to carve it up into two sections. Section A which basically just a weed patch and terrible and in the most need of emergency operations. Section B which is also really terrible, but at least has green, grass-like stuff growing in it.

So far what I've done:

1) Section B areas - hit with Trimec (two applications, two weeks apart, last app was this week) to reduce perennial weed pressure. Plan to overseed Sep 1.

2) Section A - Hit with Glyphosate 41% at 2.5 fl. oz. per gal from the hose end sprayer (two applications spaced one week apart, last application was Weds the 9th of Aug). Plan is to overseed Aug 16.

3) I've been out there every day with the pick-axe, the shovel, etc. digging up the larger rocks that jut out of Section A lawn. Been raking stones and peddles out. Been back-filling with screend topsoil and leveling. Prepping the best I can to be able to core-aerate and overseed next week.

In terms of siting - Some areas are full sun, some are part shade, and other are deep shade. Because I'm on a shoestring budget and I need to get this done with a minimum of fuss, I've decided on Lesco's Metro Select Mix. Got a 50# bag @ SiteOne for $96 and picked up a 50# bag of Lesco starter fert for $36 or so. The Metro mix is 50% PR, 20% KBG, 15% Creeping Red Fescue, and 15% Chewings Fescue iirc. I know this is probably suboptimal and I'm going to get flamed. But, I made an executive decision. The price was right. It was a good balance of the different species. Named cultivars. All 90% or higher germination. All from Oregon. Very low weed seed and no noxious - and the price was right!

Now here is the real problem:

I can not afford to rent a core aerator and verticutter for 24 hours for Lawn A and then again two weeks from now for Lawn B. My parents simply can not afford to pay the $280 in tool rentals. My father asked me to buy a 48" tow behind core aerator from Agri-Fab so that for $200 he owns it and I can use it every fall for aerating and overseeding.

My original plan was to mow the weed patch that has been glyphosated as low as I possibly can, and then chew the living crap out of it making multiple passes with the aerator, such that I have 20 or more holes per sq. ft. Then I was going to rotary spread the starter and the seed at 4#/1000 sq. ft. and use a drag mat to bust up all the cores and spread the seed around. However, looking at this brown dead stuff out there, I'm starting to wonder - is this going to work? Will it fill in? Am I going to waste all that money on seed? Something tells me I should be criss crossing it with a verticutter!

Can anyone give me a tried and true method using just a core aerate and a drag mat? Or is that not going to work? I'm a noob and I really need just a step-by-step method to follow here. Hell, I'll go bow rake the entire 6250 sq. ft. if I have to, but I'd rather not.

I'd like to make my own drag - but I can't find single sections of chain link. I was thinking to just use an old piece of carpet nailed to a 2x4". I could spend $80 to buy a tow-behind tine dethatcher - but then the budget will be maxed. Or how about the $90 corded electric dethatcher I see on Amazon? Are they garbage?

I hope I've conveyed enough info for people to get a sense of what I'm trying to accomplish and the limited budget I am working with. In terms of the Section B lawn - the plan was just to 1) mow as low as I can 2) core aerate the crap out of it 3) drop starter fert and seed at 2#/1000 sq. ft. 4) water like its my job for 2 weeks.

Sorry for the really long post. Maybe it makes sense to rent a verticutter for a day just to do the section A seeding and then just follow my overseeding plan using the core aerator in all the section B "good" lawn areas where I'm only overseeding? This one I only pay the rental fee for one year - hopefully get a halfway decent stand of grass, and then can overseed using the equipment I own each fall going forward?

I really need a good consensus on which way to go here and I'd appreciate your combined expertise and experience!

Cheers,

John

[turf_toes]

I'd suggest you start by reading the threads here in the renovation forum. I don't think you'll find a lot of folks suuesting any of the approaches that you mention.

I also think that unless you have well water that you'll be unable to renovate such a large area for a budget of @ $550. Unless you live somewhere that water prices are very low, you're likely to spend more than that just getting such a large area estsblished.

I'm not flaming you, but I can't recommend steps for renovating your lawn that will exceed the budget that you've set.

You might be better off trying a simple overseed. I'm not sure renovating makes a lot of sense in your case.

Good luck.

[jfoege]

Sorry for the typos in my original post. It was quite late and I was quite tired!

[jfoege]

I guess to break down that inanely long post above - what I'm trying to say is:

I have enough seed to seed at 4#/1000 on the lower 6250 sq. ft. which I plan to do on Aug 16 and enough seed to overseed at 2#/1000 on the rest of the 6250 sq. ft., which I plan to do two weeks later on Sep 1.

I have enough starter fertilizer to do all 12,500 sq. ft.

I have a 48" tow-behind core aerator, a pick-axe, a bow rake, a leaf rake, a shovel, a spade, a mower, 90 ft of hose, a sprinkler, a great well and tons of time and lots of motivation.

Like I said, if I have to manually de-thatch and harrow the ground with a bow rake , I'll do it. Will simply coring the crap out of the area and then seeding and dragging work? Or do I really need to get a verticutter/power rake for the day? In which order do I do everything? If so:

1) Mow low
2) Core aerate and wait a day for cores to dry out
3) De-thatch and harrow ground multiple times and directions w/ power rake rental
4) Broadcast starter and seed @ 1# P per 1000/sq. ft. and 4# seed per 1000 sq. ft.
5) Lightly rake in with leaf rake
6) Water

OR

1) Mow low
2) Core aerate eight passes in different directions - 20-40 holes per sq. ft.
3) Broadcast starter fert and seed
4) Drag with drag mat

I know a lot of guys here are going to poo poo that method, but will it work? Even if suboptimal? Or is the first method significantly better? Is this an OK method for doing the overseeding job in the rest of the lawn?

Thanks guys. I won't keep asking the same question anymore. I just though it best to re-formulate it a touch.

[andy10917]

No flaming at ATY, but cold reality is a regular feature.

I have to agree for the most part with TT. Given that this is a large task for you and not a labor of love or a hobby, we don't look at what you want to use for a bag of seed. And without a soil test, any fertilization plan is a shot in the dark. That subsoil dump on the property is bad news.

I wouldn't have hit it with RU, but what's done is done. There is no need for aeration or slit seeding, but I would seriously consider protecting your seed investment with a coating of peat moss (as little as 1/8" works!). It's smart money instead of praying everything works out perfectly.

PS: I lived in Stamford, CT. Where the hell are there 1000 ft hills near New Haven?

[jfoege]

Hi Andy,

I'm up in Prospect on East Mountain. I think I need to correct a few assumptions.

1) I do love to grow things. Gardening is in my blood. It's what I do. I read soil texts at night for fun. I grew over 200 annuals from seed this year. I grow roses and dahlias. I'm not some hack.

2) I did have a soil test done. Two in fact, two years apart. They were, however, not performed using a place like Logan Labs where you can apply the type of soil analysis that Steve Solomon uses in his book "The Intelligent Gardener". From what I've seen, most of the soil analysis info I've seen here seems to base itself off of the Albrecht theory of mineral balancing, but I could be way off the mark on this one. My samples were done at the CAES in New Haven and therefore use the Morgan methods of wet chemistry soil analysis. Mainly the only thing I'm interested in is pH and P levels. I put down 2-3# of N a year as long as my pH , P, and K are good. I should worry about Ca to Mg ratio for flocculation. I think it really is true that too much Mg compacts the soil. I've sort of seen it happen after putting down Dolomitic lime when I should have put down Calcitic. As I stated, my P is quite low at 12ppm or so. I need to put down 1# P per 1000. I've got the starter fertilizer from Lesco purchased. I've got the 50# bag of Metro mix seed purchased.

3) I have pretty bad compaction all around and the entire "lower yard" was all perennial weeds. Thus the roundup and reboot idea.

4) The peat is a great idea - it is very cheap. And once it's wet it really stays wet! Thanks for that idea.

I'll just figure it out. I wish I had all the money in the world to truck in 3-6" of screen topsoil and a bobcat to rent - obviously. But my folks gave me about $500-$600 and said - use what you know about growing and gardening and do whatever you can to make grass grow here again.

That is the mission I've embarked upon.

[andy10917]

Nobody said you were a hack. The "we don't look at the seed" comment was meant to say that this isn't the building of a lawn you intend to coddle for a couple of decades as a hobby - your statement was to get a passable lawn for a sale. We get it, and aren't going to try to talk you in exotic cultivars, etc.

BTW, my approach to soil management is a high-input approach that is about 70% based on Albrecht's work, with a heavy emphasis on humus.

[jfoege]

Cool! I knew I recognized some of Albrecht in your soil analysis methodology! I do love me some Humus. What can it not do? Increases pore space. Increases water holding capacity. Helps to relieve compaction. Increases CEC. It's such a wonderful thing !!

[jfoege]

In terms of steps, can someone tell me if the following is acceptable given the tools I have to work with:

Please keep in mind the area has been RU'ed and is dense thick mats of dead grass, weeds, bare spots of soil, etc.

1) Mow low (1") and water in prep for aerating and de-thatching to get moisture down to 3-6"

2) Core aerate to relieve compaction in multiple directions

3) Allow cores to dry overnight. Then de-thatch using a Classen TR-20 with standard flail blades in one direction to break up cores and open up slits for a seedbed. Set height of Classen to slit down about 1/4" into soil.

3) Rake off thatch and debris with leaf rakes.

4) Broadcast seed at 4#/1000 sq. ft. (Lesco Metro Mix 50% PR, 20% KBG, 15% Creeping RF, 15% Chewings Fescue)

5) Run Classen TR-20 perpendicular to original direction to mix seed into soil and break up the seedbed even more.

6) Broadcast Lesco starter fert

7) Water in

8) Water 2x a day for the first week, then once a day for the next week

9) Begin mowing at 4" down to 3" as normal

I will be able to rent a Classen TR-20 for 24 hours for $70 from local HD. For the other areas that just need overseeding, I was going to basically mow low, water, core aerate like hell, broadcast seed and starter fert, and water and just let it do its thing. Kind of like what golf courses do I guess. Wasn't planning on renting the TR-20 power rake again.

Acceptable? Better ways to do it with the tools I have?

Thanks for the thoughts and input so far.

[HoosierLawnGnome]

I don't like your overall approach for either project, sorry. You need distinct plans for an overseed and renovation. Read up as TT said.

Honestly, a project with potential major soil issues and a limited budget, with only a few days left to plan is risky at best.

BUT, it is what it is - the die is cast with that app of roundup

I don't think you have enough seed to establish a mostly-PR lawn. I'd get more purely-PR seed if you can - PR renovation is easier and faster results.

You also need to be aware of the spacing recommendation on the label of your Trimec for new seedings - don't risk it.

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What would I do with $550 and the supplies you have?

Buy more purely Perennial Rye (PR) seed - $75
Allocate funds for running a well pump - $100
Buy hoses ($50), sprinklers ($75), and 1 hose timers ($35). Save money by buying them off craigslist or @ garage sales.
Peat moss - 1 3 cf bale / K @ - $130
Lawn roller rental - $30

Renovation area:

Prior to seed down day - rake up all thatch so that you're seeding onto as much dirt as possible. Set up irrigation system and have it ready to go, tested - deeply water the night before seed-down.

Seed down day - apply your seed mix to damp soil. (7 bs / K if you're seeding PR). Top dress with peat moss. Lightly water and then roll the yard to press that seed into the soil.

Kick off watering program, which you've learned how to do here because you're going to read 3-4 similar renovation threads here before then

Mow as soon as it is tall enough to take off top growth without scalping the dirt.

Apply starter fertilizer at bag rate when the seedlings emerge from what we call 'sprout n pout'.

Wait to apply post-emergent herbicides until the label says it is safe to do so - usually 60 days or after having been mowed twice - note: that's mid October. at the earliest

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Overseeding area - mow low prior to seed down. Apply seed at overseeding rate on bag, after having waited long enough per the label on the Trimec you've already applied. Don't fertilize until new seedlings are out of sprout n pout.

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Note - this plan is only going to get grass growing. It doesn't have anything in it to prevent weeds coming in or killing them when they do. It's not going to yield the results you see on this forum's threads. You'll likely have a healthy crop of weeds to deal with in the renovation area again.

[jfoege]

Thank you. Im out here digging boulders and pieces of highway out as I type and back filling with screened topsoil. Some of these chunks are easily 200-300 lbs. Thank God I have two huge levers (long, skinny tree trunk) and a second body here to help lift, lever amd roll!!

[HoosierLawnGnome]

Wow - that's a ton of work! Honestly, you probably needed a lot more time to do site prep just to get the junk out of the soil. No worries, if mom and dad want you to take it to the next level, you can do it again and take more time to get that stuff out.

I have 3 or 4 boulders in my yard that leave basket-ball sized holes where they poke up in the turf. It's not that noticeable.

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If you CAN - I would recommend a bottle of Tenacity for the project @ $60. Apply it at the 4 oz / acre rate at seed down (or the day after), then 4 weeks later. NOTE THAT IS 4 oz / acre, NOT 4 oz per thousand. It will do the best job of weed prevention on a new renovation. This would be where my next money goes.

After that, I'd get a few bags of urea and spoon feed it 1 lb / K every week when it gets out of sprout n pout. Keep 2 lbs / K on hand for a winterizing app - the most important feeding of the year. Read up on winterizing, but basically when you cut it and it doesn't take any off (top growth stops), apply 2 lbs / K before a rainstorm or watering it in by hand. Timing is highly variable, so you have to use your eyes.

[STL]

I second HLG. It's worth taking your time and doing it right imo, especially since it sounds like you have bigger area-prep to do before you even get to seeding.

For the rest of the plan, I think you'll get more value by cutting out the equipment rental, unless you have thatch issues, and put that money towards peat moss top dressing and tenacity. Heavy aeration will likely increase weed pressure.

You'll probably need to water more too. If you can't swing that, Seed Moist Seed Coat, which helps retain water, is a high value item at $10-$15.

Also, consider mowing the new grass lower and increasing hoc as it gets more established.

[jfoege]

I'm going to pick up a bottle of Tenacity and more seed as per your suggestions above at SiteOne today. Thanks so much for all the helpful advice!

[HoosierLawnGnome]

I am such a fan of doing it 'right'. Before I really got into this hobby, I did it half-arsed for 3 years in a row. Tossed out seed and fertilized. So much money wasted. I got tired of the substandard lawn and spent a summer reading and preparing for my first renovation. Now, I am a turf addict.

Every time I've tried to do it the 'easy' way I've regretted it on some level.

you have to do something, and doing the right things at the right time is the main thing. You can bust your back doing things that add much less value. (Like core aerating the whole thing multiple times vs making sure it has enough water and you are working to prevent weeds rather than encourage them!)

[seiyafan]

Also start some pots for spot repair later.

[jfoege]

Ok. Lots of info here! More seed, Tenacity, peat, moist seed coat, start pots (?) for spot repair. I assume this means seeding something like 1020 flats for my own sod strips?

I'm gonna head to SiteOne tomorrow and grab a bottle of Tenacity (Wow! What a cool product! Do people just use this instead of Trimec or Triclopyr? Anyone ever hose-end spray it?) and the 3.8 cu ft compressed bales of peat. I need to look through their catalog for the moist seed coat type product.

I got the folks to up the budget by a few hundred, so I think we are good.

I've got a great well and lots of time, so watering isn't an issue!

I will need to get the power rake for the day, imo, to tear off all the old dead stuff and harrow the soil for seeding. I'm almost done removing all the major surface visible rocks and boulders peeking out and backfilling. I'd say I already used a yard of screened topsoil. Tomorrow I will be usinng my bow rake to remove all the surface debris and pebbles etc.

I think I going to lose about 10 lbs. Who needs a gym membership when you have lawn renovations?

[andy10917]

Do people just use this instead of Trimec or Triclopyr?

Not really. There is a 16 oz/acre limit, so we save it for the tough stuff that other herbicides can't kill.

Anyone ever hose-end spray it?

Not really recommended. And don't cheap-out on the surfactant. There amounts used are very small and bigger drops (hose-end sprayers do that) aren't as effective.

For the SoilMoist, there is a way to cheat if you can't find it, but it *MUST* be done outdoors.

[jfoege]

*MUST* be done outdoors! My interest is strangely piqued!

[jfoege]

If you had $150 to go towards Tenacity + Surfactant + Blue Dye + shipping

OR

10 of 3.8 cu. ft. compressed bales of spaghum peat

Which would you choose in your experience guys? The goal is to get a halfway normal looking "average" residential lawn. It's tough to pull the trigger on Tenacity. I *REALLY* want it and I think it's a fantastic product and idea, but I'd only be applying it twice. Once at seed down and once four weeks later. This house is getting sold in a year. I'm the one trying to renovate the landscape such that it will sell. I think I forgot to add that to my original post.