Lawn reno on a shoestring budget! Please do not flame!

[jfoege]

Can I wait 24hr after seed down and peat to water it in heavy? Im running out of daylight and need another 2hrs to finish mulching.

[jfoege]

Finished! Seed is down. Starter fert is down. The entire area is mulched with peat.

But, the sun is down. I'd really like to pack it all up, eat, goto bed and water tomorrow at 4pm.

Or should I just get out my flashlight and water it now? I've never done this before and so I really don't want to make a critical mistake.

[greenrebellion]

Watering tomorrow is fine, doesn't have to be watered in right away. (Just keep it wet once you start)

[jfoege]

Thanks greenrebellion for the reply. I've attached a few pictures of what it looks like post seed + fert + peat. Not much to look at, but hey! I'm happy for my first time doing a lawn. I've worked my tail off. Now water, water, water! And if it grows something, I'll be shouting

[jfoege]

Two more pics:





I will stay on top of the watering. I guess this is the *really* hard part....waiting.....

[HoosierLawnGnome]

The waiting IS the hardest part!


Keep the whiskey handy. Looks like you got a nice blanket of peat moss on top there

I've found the shadier areas usually germinate a little more quickly.

[jfoege]

Even watering 3x a day @10m w/ an impact sprinkler (I know, not optimal, but it's what I've got for such a large area), I'm not able to keep the peat as moist as I like. That's the only failure so far for me. I need a better irrigation system next time. Learning by doing....I just hope it's not a total failure!

[jfoege]

Wow! I had pretty good germination by day 5! I'm guessing it's all the PR in the mix. I highly doubt that KBG and FF is already germinating. Today marks day 7. I took some pictures and put them in my Google Drive folder. The link is as follows:
I understand that the first phase in germination is 100% moisture all the time with the ultimate goal of watering deeply and as infrequently as possible for a fully-established lawn.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

The last 16 images or so are the latest. I have really good germination so far and good coverage (I think). I think I might even have put down the seed too heavy. On a 50% PR, 30% FF, 20% KBG mix, I was aiming for 5#/1000, but decided (out of fear and inexperience) on seed down day to just put down the whole 50# bag. This is about 8#/1000.

I guess I'm in "sprout 'n pout" mode now for awhile? In some places where I backfilled with compost rich, quality topsoil, I'm seeing PR seedlings already above 1" in height after 7 days!

The plan is to stay with the current 10mins per zone, 3x a day watering sched that I've been following the last 7 days. I've figured out that approximately 8am, 12pm, and 4pm waterings works best for my setup. I plan to continue watering the 3x a day routine for another 7 days, at which time I was hoping to be able to cut back to 2x a day for 15m a zone in Week #3 and in Week #4 to once a day for 30m per zone. Does this sound reasonable? My rationale/reasoning is: I need to keep the, as of yet likely ungerminated KBG and FF moist all the time, and being that it's been 7 days at 3x a day watering, I probably need to keep it up for another 7 days!

My final question for now: I met a guy who works at the orange big-box who told me he is a landscaper. He suggested that I put down Dylox before undertaking the seeding, starter fert and peat topdressing. I didn't have enough time to really research Dylox or insecticide options. A) Are they necessary? B) When is it optimal to apply? C) How do I apply and water it in? D) Do I really need it?. I just was too rushed getting all my ducks in a row and this is my first time at renovating a lawn. I figured I could leave the Dylox question for a time when I was less busy! I have noticed a *ton* of ant hills everywhere after 7days. Kind of annoying, but I don't think ants are much of a problem for lawns? Yes? No? I need to do more reading here on insect issues, I admit it freely!

What do you all think of Dylox? I was thinking something along the lines of Merit as a general purpose insecticide and preventer for next season's grubs and the likes. Sadly, however, I think you need an applicator's license in CT to purchase Merit anymore. Anyone want to give me a quick synopsis of the ATY forums methodology on insecticides/grubs? Or point me in the the right direction?

Since you are all very experienced and I am a noob - How do the pictures look from today? They really don't do it justice. Boy, when you get out there with the sun hitting it just right and get low at the right angle....it looks like a green carpet almost already! I'm so excited to see what happens!

Next steps (are these approximately right?):


1) Continue watering 3x @ 10m per zone like I have been for another 7 days. Then in week #3, switch to 2x a day at 15m per day. In week #4 switch to 1x @ 20-30m per zone. In weeks #5 and onward, let mother nature and the fall rains take over. Obviously, I omit certain waterings when it rains and the peat is nice and moist and will continue to do so based on amount and frequency of rain. Thanks Mother Nature!

2) Second dose of Lesco starter fert @ 1# P/1000 sq. ft. in 3 weeks (4 weeks after seed down date)

3) Mow when grass gets to 3.75" or so down to 2.5" and keep mowing it whenever it gets up to 3.6". I don't measure it, I just eyeball it...But basically, is 2.5" a decent max height of cut for a mixed PR, FF, KBG lawn? Everything I read in classical (older) literature says yes, this is the right maximum height to cut at. Newer sources recommend 3".

4) 1# N / 1000 sq. ft. in November when the "pause" hits via 46-0-0 Urea and water it in good.

That's it for this season in my notes. Good? Bad? Ugly? Terrible?

I really appreciate all who have been following along and offering advice and pointing me in the right direction along the way. I've been learning a lot.

** NOTE **

I decided against Tenacity due to FF being in the mix. This is where I strayed from a lot of your recommendations. I'm ready to battle the weeds in the spring/summer of 2018 w/ spot-spraying Trimec as I mow. Also, I use Lesco Dimension (dithiopyr) granular as a Pre-M in April when the forsythia blooms start dropping. I am, obviously, open to better suggestions and will be reading up here over the winter and catching up with so much missed content. I've been *so* busy.

Also, for those that are interested, I've put up some pictures of my Dahlias which are just starting to bloom. Yes, it was terrible planning on my part. I should never have put them in that lower yard. I didn't know in June that it was going to turn out to look so silly or cause me so many headaches. Oh well! I will move the Dahlias somewhere else next season. At least I know for sure that the grass that grows there will grow like gangbusters!!!!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw2KO ... F9vVnpVOEE

I will be updating this folder with new pics as each Dahlia starts opening up. Which will be VERY soon! Exciting!

Cheers,

John

[andy10917]

Don't make the biggest mistake that you can make when seeding a PR/FF/KBG mix. That's celebrating and changing your focus far too early - I see elements of that happening. You're at Day 7 and you're thinking to the end of the season. You're talking about cutting back on water schedules at the first Day that the KBG could legitimately be expected to germinate. This is the most desirable grass and you've got it in the rearview mirror! The window for KBG germination is 14-21 days, and I've had germination out as late as 33 days.

[jfoege]

Andy, I've spent a month busting my rear in the hopes that I'll have grass. I've never done this before and am simply relieved that there is green sprouting grass with decent coverage. I'm not doing a touchdown dance or impressed with myself! I'm simply excited! AND very relieved.

I gather from your post, that my question regarding watering and when its ok to move from 3x a day to 2x to 1x should or could be answered: Keep the peat evenly moist for a month so you get KBG and FF germination. Which means, I assume, as the PR nurse crops gets higher and starts acting like a living mulch, that I can back off the 3x a day for 10m routine as needed - BUT no one can tell me when. I'll have to judge it myself.

New people to this (me) lack experience, wisdom and re-assurance. So, in my case at least, I'm looking for rough outlines and feedback.

I'm specifically asking about the next steps forward so that I can see if my research here has been approximately right. I specifically mentioned the 14-21 KBG germination time, so, yes it is definitely the #1 factor on my mind. My watering resolve remains high even at 4 hours per day of babysitting one sprinkler!

Anyway, I'm relieved. I'm excited to finally see grass there after years of weeds. (My family never had nice lawns). I'm going to keep things at germination level of wetness until 30d approximately (at least) based upon my admonishment!

[jfoege]

I will not put my KBG in the rearview! I promise to show ky KBG the duly required love and affection!

[smast16]

Hey Jorge,

This is the tough part about PR with KBG. You have to find a balance between the 3. For mowing you need to find a balance that limits your mowing, but the PR isn't shading out the other 2 grasses. Watering, if keep the 3x a day till your past the KBG germination and sprout and pout. It could be 40+ days. The PR won't be sad about the constant supply of water. Once the KBG is up and done pouting, then you can start to work to train the grasses down in search of water together.

[Green]

The Dylox guy is probably just going by his own experience in your/our area (or maybe your specific neighborhood). He probably sees grub infestation this time of year on untreated properties; I'll bet that's why he recommended it. But if you don't have a grub issue...no need!

[jfoege]

Looks like I may indeed have a grub problem. However, how extensive it is or if it's worth treating, is hard for me to estimate at this point. What I do know is that every morning my nicely graded new reno area and shoots are being ripped up by skunks or something of that ilk looking for, I take it, grubs. There are little furrows clawed down about an inch or two deep. I've seen them before in the backyard during grub time - spring and fall.

Maybe the Dylox guy was right. Maybe I should treat. I'm not sure. Time to read the label thoroughly!

[Marinegrunt]

I would definitely keep watering as if you're waiting for seed to germinate. Hardly any of that grass has went through sprout and pout. You'll know when it's in pout because it pretty much all stops growing. During this period is when the grass focuses its growth on the roots. If you back off on the water too soon your kbg germination rates will be low.

[jfoege]

I'm still watering 3x a day for 10 mins a zone. I wont be stopping anytime soon. Wonder how I know if the KBG and FF has germinated? I did start pots, so maybe I can watch them closely to give me clues.

The PR is up to 2 inches already in some spots and obviously I will have to mow it at some point. I'm thinking when it gets up to 3.5", I'll take it down to 2.5" and leave my HOC of there. I just hope its not too high to shade out the KBG and FF.

At the same time, with the PR so tall, I'm noticing the peat is holding moisture longer as it's shading out the surface.

I may be able to move to 2x a day watering in the future. I'll just play it by ear.

It's so cool to see grass!

[Marinegrunt]

I just did a reno and used 90% TTTF and 10% KBG. Hogan Seed mixed the kbg in for me. I wish now I would've purchased the kbg separate and seeded it about 10-14 days before the tttf. That would've given the kbg a head start and they would both germinate around the same time. Someone else on here recommends doing it that way but I already had my seed before I ran across it. It makes sense.

I started watering this past Friday so I'm hoping to see some germination this week.

[northeastlawn]

I just did a reno and used 90% TTTF and 10% KBG. Hogan Seed mixed the kbg in for me. I wish now I would've purchased the kbg separate and seeded it about 10-14 days before the tttf. That would've given the kbg a head start and they would both germinate around the same time. Someone else on here recommends doing it that way but I already had my seed before I ran across it. It makes sense.

To me the seed/soil contact is really important. For me that is rolling the seed into moist soil. Even a week in to a KBG renovation, you are starting to get some KBG popping up.

In order to push your 90% TTTF into the soil; with say a roller, you will do a job on the newly sprouted KBG, even if its not a lot of them. I can't say that seeding like that makes a lot of sense when many of us go out of our way not to disturb the seed bed, even while its still in sprout and pout.

[jfoege]

I put my PR / FF / KBG mix down heavy at 8# per 1000 sq ft after harrowing with a power rake because I knew I wasn't going to roll it. I just threw down starter fert and peat on top and let it do it's thing. So far it seems fine. Fingers crossed! I just didn't have the time to roll it and I know some guys here say they don't. So, I took the gamble. I imagine rolling it would allow you to put down at a lower seeding rate , because one would expect higher germination rate, no?

As it is, I'm slightly worried my mix is coming in too thick. I've read that grossly exceeding a certain density is not ideal for the grass plants as they develop into mature adults....

I don't think 8# per 1000 is too, too far off 5-6# per 1000 though. I should probably just relax!

[jfoege]

Hey @green and all other Connecticuters, how did those heavy rains affect you all? I don't think I got any washout due to the PR germination eveeywhere. Looks like it helped stitch things together pretty well. Phew! Only time will tell.