Cheesto's 2017 reno

[Cheesto]

Since I'm starting this thread late in the process, it won't be as exciting as my 2012 Reno, but I'm starting one nonetheless. Here's where we are for my 8,500 square foot reno:



Gave myself about 2 weeks of fallowing (watering 3x/day) and glyphosate before seeding. In hindsight, probably could have given this a little more time - I scalped 2 days after the 2nd round of glyphosate and some of the undesirable grass has rebounded.


I did a half application of fertilizer 2 weeks prior to seed-down to get the weeds going, then added another half application at day of seed-down. A big difference between this time and 5 years ago is that I decided to not top dress. No peat moss, no topsoil, nothing but what was left over from scalping (of course I'm second guessing this more and more with each passing day). There are some small areas that I used some topsoil to help level the ground, so we'll see if there's any different between germination in those areas versus the rest of the lawn.

Today is Day 7, and after watering 5x a day, we finally have the first signs of germination:

[probasesteal]

Looks good. If your able to water you should be fine w/o any topdressing

[HoosierDaddy]

I'm curious how your germination goes. Mine has been very slow to non-existent. I'm at day 19 and am starting to get concerned.

[Marinegrunt]

I've read others who said top dressing isn't really needed because the dead grass will pretty much serve the same purpose. Not sure how true it is. As long as you get good seed to soil contact I would think it would be fine. I'm sure topping in peat would hold the moisture in which would help.

[Cheesto]

Day 11... for the most part, germination seems good. Maybe it's because there's more contrast, but the areas with topsoil seem to have MUCH better germination.

[Cheesto]

Day 13 germination

[jimmy]

Looks good! I'm at day 11 and I think mine looks pretty close to your day 11. Mine is definitely patch and I, too, feel like germination is better on the areas with fill-in soil.

[Cheesto]

I was definitely lazy when I scalped my lawn. I chopped it down in one fell swoop and I definitely should have taken it down a little bit further, but I didn't. The challenge with this now is that, from a distance, I can only see brown, dead grass, and I can't see what is filling in nicely and what is not. It's incredibly difficult to tell where there is 0 germination.

It could be a blessing in that it simply requires me to be patient, but maybe in another week or two, I will do a very low first mow to bag up a little bit of that dead grass. Being able to see what isn't germinating after 3 or 4 weeks is probably better than doing it now, don't you think?

[jimmy]

I was definitely lazy when I scalped my lawn. I chopped it down in one fell swoop and I definitely should have taken it down a little bit further, but I didn't. The challenge with this now is that, from a distance, I can only see brown, dead grass, and I can't see what is filling in nicely and what is not. It's incredibly difficult to tell where there is 0 germination.

It could be a blessing in that it simply requires me to be patient, but maybe in another week or two, I will do a very low first mow to bag up a little bit of that dead grass. Being able to see what isn't germinating after 3 or 4 weeks is probably better than doing it now, don't you think?

Definitely. You want to give it at least 30 days for everything to germinate, since some areas can be slower than others. Every day I'm seeing more germination in mine...initially I was worried, but even a couple days later it is significantly less patchy. The stuff that germinates at day 7 or 8 isn't an indication of the fullness, it just had the ideal conditions.

My mower (Honda HRR) wouldn't have been able to do it in one pass...I think it was 6 or 7 passes, starting a couple notches up and lowering it down. How low did you go and what mower do you have?

[Cheesto]

I have a Toro 30" Timemaster, and because I was watering like crazy, the lawn got up to 4.5 inches or so, then I chopped it to about an inch and a half to two inches. It struggled for sure.

I know we need to let nature take its course and allow time for germination and spreading, but when do I start thinking about a small amount of synthetic fert. After the first mow?

[ken-n-nancy]

I know we need to let nature take its course and allow time for germination and spreading, but when do I start thinking about a small amount of synthetic fert. After the first mow?

Personally, I have had good results with weekly light doses of urea fertilizer starting immediately after the first mow which cut grass blades on at least half of the lawn.

[Cheesto]

3 days ago I lowered my mower deck, and cut/bagged some of the dead grass to help get some more sunlight to the seedlings. It's still tough to tell where there is NO germination, or just a little germination - the dead grass just hides everything. With the cooler weather we've been having, I've cut back on the frequency of irrigation. I do one very light (couple minutes a zone) irrigation in the morning, then one longer watering (10 - 15 minutes a zone) at 1pm.

One thing that I find incredible - I have absolutely zero weed pressure. I'll attribute it to 2 weeks of fallowing, Tenacity at seed-down, and no topsoil top dressing.

Day 20 picture updates





The grass to the top right of this picture is unwanted grass that bounced back because I mowed too soon after applying glyphosate:

[Cheesto]

Area that had topsoil at seed-down:


Areas that did not have topsoil at seed-down:

[Cheesto]

I consider my 2012 reno a major success, so just for comparison purposes, here is what that lawn looked like at Day 18: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8292&hilit=cheesto ... 40#p122270

A little hard to tell the difference because of the dead grass this time around, but I'm probably not too far behind.

I ordered 400 pounds of Milorganite, which will be delivered tomorrow, and spread over the entire 10k lawn (8.5k is reno'd) this weekend.

[Jackpine]

With the return of high temps I'd seriously consider adding a late afternoon irrigation to the schedule. Other then that, looking good!

[Cheesto]

10-4, Jackpine - going back to a more frequent, light irrigation schedule. There are just too many areas that are SO thin, that I have to believe some seed still hasn't germinated. Plus, the ground is becoming a little too saturated.

Since there are so many thin/bare areas, I am going to add some more seed. Instead of throwing it on the ground and hoping it germinates this time around, I'm going to try something new:

Has anyone tried this method before? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f61LKh3XwKo

I had a bunch of sawdust from my workshop, filled a wheelbarrow with it, added about 4-5 pounds of the KGB blend, and soaked it. I'll check on it in a week, and if many have germinated, then I'll mix it with some topsoil and apply to the bare areas. Please chime in if you've tried this method before! The concept makes total sense to me, and I have to believe the moist environment will be perfect for getting the seeds to germinate.

[probasesteal]

^interesting. I may have to try this with some Peat sometime

[Marinegrunt]

It does make sense. I would think sawdust would make a great top dressing and that's basically what you're doing. I wouldn't be afraid to throw it on the lawn now instead of waiting a week for germination to make sure it works. I have grass germinating at the end of a newly rocked ca6 driveway. There is no dirt on the hard base at all. I think the seed will love the moist sawdust.

[ken-n-nancy]

Sawdust works well to retain moisture for seed germination. One thing to watch out for, however, is that decomposing sawdust is a nitrogen hog. Don't overdo it, or the sawdust will compete with the new grass for the nitrogen that the new grass needs! Seriously, fresh sawdust will "tie up" nitrogen as it decomposes, as the soil microbes that break down the high-carbon sawdust need gobs of nitrogen.

This is one reason that peat moss is more typically recommended for moisture retention at seeding.

My understanding is that it is generally to avoid competition for nitrogen that sawdust is not typically used as a topdressing for newly-seeded lawns.

I suppose I'm getting a bit off topic with this, but a pile of sawdust takes a crazy long time to decompose without lots of nitrogen. As an example, below is a video of a sawdust pile from a milling operation from in the 1920s and 1930s up on Matagamon Lake in Maine. I visited this sawdust pile a few years ago. One would think that this pile would have rotted away in a couple years, but it's been nearly 100 years so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG-BHAe3lf8

There's quite a few of these sawdust piles up in northern Maine. There's a good-sized one on the shore of our favorite fishing spot for white perch. The pile is clearly visible in a satellite photo: http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=45.18767,-68.39278&z=19&t=H

The lake water looks like tea. I don't know if that's due to the giant sawdust pile, or some other reason.

[probasesteal]

I started a wheelbarrow full of peat and seed, will see how it goes