KBGkicksazz lawn project

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
KBGkicksazz
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by KBGkicksazz » June 7th, 2018, 1:54 pm

Yup. Sprayed it right after I put down the fertilizer.

I’m not worried about weeds right now I’m concerned about my germination being so slow. Expect to see more germination by now.

mikeyD wrote:
June 6th, 2018, 8:25 pm
did you use tenacity?

KBGkicksazz
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by KBGkicksazz » June 7th, 2018, 8:03 pm

Most recent picture my Wife sent me.

Not uniform coverage but she said more is starting to poke up. This is the slowest germination I’ve ever had since playing with grass as a homeowner.

Now it’s just water, sun, patience, and hope.
Image

KBGkicksazz
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by KBGkicksazz » June 8th, 2018, 11:13 pm

This is the two week pictures. KBG is really testing my paitience coming in. I have my irrigation going for 15 min about every 4.5 hours trying to keep the progress going. Seems more is coming in but still bare spots.
Image

Image

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llO0DQLE
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by llO0DQLE » June 9th, 2018, 11:27 am

I'm having the same experience right now. What are your temps like and how much sun are you getting?

KBGkicksazz
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by KBGkicksazz » June 10th, 2018, 3:17 am

Temps are mid 50s at night and high seventy to Low eighties during the day.

Sucks I’m on a business trip until Thursday night so can’t assess until I see it in daylight on Friday.

No choice but to just water and give it time to germinate. Been a roller coaster of weather.


KBGkicksazz
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by KBGkicksazz » June 11th, 2018, 2:21 pm

Grass is not coming in. Time to make a choice to use more seed and roll it in and try again as it’s major bare soil still.

Option 2 is go with a KBG/PR blend to get turf established and then do a Reno in the next year or Two.

I’m leaning to option 2.

KBGkicksazz
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by KBGkicksazz » June 12th, 2018, 4:00 pm

Ok need some advice. Got Wife to take pictures across the front yard and of the side yard as below.

It looks like it’s coming in but very thin. I’m watering for 15 minutes a zone every 4-5 hours. My yard gets full sun so it’s not waterlogged that’s for sure.

Should I just keep watering and let it fill in?

I’m thinking of applying a light app of starter to help it along.

Should I add more seed or just be patient? Seems to me I need more water


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Image

STL
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by STL » June 13th, 2018, 1:38 am

I wouldn't reseed until you stop seeing new germination for a couple days. I also wouldn't put the starter down yet. I agree with your last thought and would make sure you're keeping the soil moist enough since it's looks dry from the pics.

You want to keep it evenly moist, meaning it doesn't dry out between watering but doesn't get saturated to the point of puddling either. If it's dry you probably need to up the frequency some.

Pictures kinda look like there's a green cast, but again a little hard to tell. When grass germinates it's thin, and KBG can take a while. I'd double check the watering first before deciding to abandon ship.

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HoosierLawnGnome
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » June 13th, 2018, 9:22 am

Is it moist enough? Full sun can dry it out quickly. I think that first two weeks of watering is the art of the KBG reno. I see green fuzz out there, so I wouldn't reseed yet either like STL mentions wait. Patience is key with KBG. Just wait for year two!!! Woooowww!!

ETA patience, brother. You live in NH. You can overseed thin areas in mid July only 3 or 4 weeks away. Then you will know for sure and no major renovation needed again. Then fall comes and you can fill it in with good feeding and cultivation.

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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by KBGkicksazz » June 13th, 2018, 6:45 pm

I’m guessing this is a moisture issue. I’m on a well and water 20 min x 6 zones five times a day but it does dry out quick.

This work trip Plus Long stretches with no rain have worked against me big time.

KBGkicksazz
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by KBGkicksazz » June 15th, 2018, 12:49 pm

I have a couple spots where there’s little to no seedlings so I’m going to seed those areas and roll it in.

The lawn just has very thin seedlings evenly distributed except for a couple areas. So it’s hard to be patient and not want to overseed lol. Just very thin growth and not sure why as irrigation has been going since seed down.

I only have one spot of weeds probably I must have missed it when putting down Tenancity so luckily I don’t have tons of weeds.

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andy10917
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by andy10917 » June 15th, 2018, 2:06 pm

So it’s hard to be patient and not want to overseed lol.
Here is a quick story of what is now my favorite lawn:

I planted a cultivar that was known for its aggressiveness (KBG "Emblem"), but had never been used by a member of the site (too new). Having experience with doing Renovations, I didn't panic before the standard 14-21 day period (heavy drinking then helps). 21 days came and went, and it didn't make much of a presence until Day 28 - and dragged its feet all the way out to Day 35 before no new germination happened.

What DID come up was so frail and wispy that I would run to the bedroom window each morning to see if it had died overnight. Things remained that way out until about Day 50 or so, and then a damned switch went off and it roared to life, consuming small mammals that mistakenly crossed it.

I have tried on a couple of occasions to overseed other cultivars into it - these have been failures because the Emblem is so aggressive.

So, don't do anything dumb like putting additional seed down on "thin" areas until about Day 40. The problems that can be created are worse than the chance that it's truly necessary. After all, are you expecting the lawn to get up and run away? I assure you, it will be there tomorrow and the next day is looking pretty good, too!

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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by STL » June 15th, 2018, 2:39 pm

KBGkicksazz wrote:
June 15th, 2018, 12:49 pm
I have a couple spots where there’s little to no seedlings so I’m going to seed those areas and roll it in.

The lawn just has very thin seedlings evenly distributed except for a couple areas. So it’s hard to be patient and not want to overseed lol. Just very thin growth and not sure why as irrigation has been going since seed down.

I only have one spot of weeds probably I must have missed it when putting down Tenancity so luckily I don’t have tons of weeds.
What you're describing doesn't really sound abnormal. From my experience, which is only two renovations, germination happens quicker in some areas than others. My kbg reno germinated on one side of the yard first then germination slowly spread across and a few spots just took a while to get there. My ttttf reno, which germinates fast, was patchy in a few spots for several weeks. Both made me a nervous wreck at the time, but they turned out just fine. Point being, keep an eye on it but you're probably OK.

So, how is your watering? Is it keeping the ground moist through the the day?

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llO0DQLE
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by llO0DQLE » June 15th, 2018, 3:08 pm

The fact that you have even germination on what sounds like 99% of the lawn sounds to me like everything is doing well and as intended. After sprout and pout is done and when you start mowing and fertilizing, you'll be amazed how much it fills in. Make sure you mow when the seedlings reach 1.5 - 2 inches and mow it down to 1". That will help with early spread. Also, with tillering and rhizomes, any thin or bare areas will get covered, if not this fall then by next spring most likely. I didn't even grow any pots with my reno this year as I'd rather just let it spread than deal with planting pots in the ground.

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ken-n-nancy
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by ken-n-nancy » June 15th, 2018, 7:29 pm

KBGkicksazz,

I live in NH too. I joined this site nearly 4 years ago and have done renovations of our front, back, and side lawns in separate years. If you want to look at the results of our prior NH renovations, there are links from the soil test thread I posted today: url=viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24055

I have a few initial thoughts from reading through this thread:

* You seem to have a high level of commitment and are willing to make investments of money and time for long-term benefit.

* Spring renovations are doable in New Hampshire, but still a challenge in the warmer parts of the state. However, your seed-down date of May 26th is quite late for a spring renovation -- it's going to be tough for that baby grass to survive the summer heat, even in coastal NH. It's not impossible, with proper attention to irrigation, but it's not going to be easy.

* Given the above, I would not put any additional seed down before mid-August (when fall renovation season starts here in NH). If your seed is not already germinating, it probably won't make it through the summer heat without significant shade, of which it looks like you have only a little.

Not putting any additional seed down before mid-August gives you time to see if you can baby your existing grass through the summer or not. Given how it looks in late July, you can decide at that time whether it will fill in without additional seeding, whether you just need to supplement in a few bare areas, if you need to seed everywhere, or if you have to apply glyphosate and start over.

Your UNH soil test results are hard to read from such a small image, but it looks like you are lower than desired in phosphorus, and have low levels of calcium, magnesium, and potassium. What have you done for fertilization since moving in? Did you end up sending off a soil test to Logan Labs?

KBGkicksazz
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by KBGkicksazz » June 15th, 2018, 10:30 pm

I put down mag I cal at bag rate and put down 19–19-19 at seeding.

My watering seems like soil is not drying out Nor puddles I think it’s just slow to grow. There is fuzz in all areas just some a little thicker than others.

With irrigation I’m not worried about the summer heat as I’m near the coast so the evenings also give a reprieve. if I can get the grass to come in as I can water to keep it going.

When I look at the grass I get the feeling it’s time for a feeding as with all the watering I expect the N and P May have been washed below the small root systems of the seedlings.

What’s the consensus should I get it a light feed or wait?

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andy10917
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by andy10917 » June 15th, 2018, 10:37 pm

When I look at the grass I get the feeling it’s time for a feeding as with all the watering I expect the N and P May have been washed below the small root systems of the seedlings.

What’s the consensus should I get it a light feed or wait?
It sounds like (1) you're trying to rationalize a decision you've already made and (2) you're trying to grow a lawn by taking polls. Not great ways to do a renovation.

KBGkicksazz
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Location: S. New Hampshire
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by KBGkicksazz » June 15th, 2018, 11:17 pm

Not quite sure how to take your post.

If I was going to just ignore input why would I have asked?

Seems you’re looking for something that’s not there bro.
andy10917 wrote:
June 15th, 2018, 10:37 pm
When I look at the grass I get the feeling it’s time for a feeding as with all the watering I expect the N and P May have been washed below the small root systems of the seedlings.

What’s the consensus should I get it a light feed or wait?
It sounds like (1) you're trying to rationalize a decision you've already made and (2) you're trying to grow a lawn by taking polls. Not great ways to do a renovation.

KBGkicksazz
Posts: 546
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Location: S. New Hampshire
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by KBGkicksazz » June 16th, 2018, 4:38 pm

It’s slowly coming in. Here is a close up right after irrigation cycle and you can see the seedlings better.
Image

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llO0DQLE
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Re: KBGkicksazz lawn project

Post by llO0DQLE » June 16th, 2018, 5:44 pm

Maybe Andy or the other soil guys here can confirm but from what I read here, P and K don't move that fast through the soil. If you put down 19-19-19 at seed down, you probably don't need to put down more, if you even needed it in the first place (as per soil test). Regarding N, the standard advice is to wait after sprout and pout before feeding as you could push top growth at the expense of root growth, something that is more critical with a spring reno. Like KNN said above, your focus right now is to baby your existing seedlings and make sure they survive summer. Some people have been successful with early fertilization but they all did fall seedings. My advice is to heed the advice you've been given thus far with the last few posts above, be patient and carry on. Nothing much to add I think. I know it's tough but grass will grow and it will come soon enough.

Your next steps probably are:

1. Tenacity at 4 week mark (I haven't read your whole thread, at least not recently so I don't remember your timelines and plans)

2. Fertilize with light N feeding after sprout and pout is done or after it's been 30 days post germination. Mind your temperatures and act accordingly. Higher temps plus more N means more water requirements. Remember, your goal right now is for seedlings to survive summer so don't rush to put down N. Better to put down a little later than too early if the risk is high.

3. Pre-M on Day 60.

There are other things you could do, maybe some Serenade or a whole proactive biofungicide program, some BLSC and Kelp Help would probably be good too but the above 3 are probably your 3 next major steps. Other than that it's mostly waiting, babying your baby grass and tweaking your watering depending on how far along your grass is (i.e. cut back gradually when it's appropriate to do so).

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