Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
kbgfarmer
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Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » September 30th, 2018, 9:52 pm

So definitely have a lot of germination better in front and thinner in back where it's more shaded. I think the grass is out of sprout and pout since lots of tillering happening. My only concern is that save for a few very isolated areas it really has t been growing vertically at all even in areas where I applied urea and phosphate. When I've mowed to enhance tillering and mulch leaves I don't think I've taken much off at all. It looks better beCause the faster growing weedy grasses have been cut down to size. Is there something wrong such as too heavy of seeding? My neighbors who have just seeded with the northern mix of choice within a week or so ago have perennial rye coming in uniformly all over that is three times the height of my kbg that was seeded a long long time ago. Should I be concerned?

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andy10917
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by andy10917 » September 30th, 2018, 10:01 pm

How long is "a long, long time ago"?

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ken-n-nancy
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 30th, 2018, 10:03 pm

kbgfarmer wrote:
September 30th, 2018, 9:52 pm
So definitely have a lot of germination better in front and thinner in back where it's more shaded. I think the grass is out of sprout and pout since lots of tillering happening. My only concern is that save for a few very isolated areas it really has t been growing vertically at all even in areas where I applied urea and phosphate. When I've mowed to enhance tillering and mulch leaves I don't think I've taken much off at all. It looks better beCause the faster growing weedy grasses have been cut down to size. Is there something wrong such as too heavy of seeding? My neighbors who have just seeded with the northern mix of choice within a week or so ago have perennial rye coming in uniformly all over that is three times the height of my kbg that was seeded a long long time ago. Should I be concerned?
If you had seeded PRG or a northern mix, then you should be concerned. KBG doesn't really grow much height at first, but gets to about 2" tall and then starts tillering and developing roots instead. What you are seeing is normal and expected.

I've been meaning to take some close-up photos of the ongoing KBG renovation in our lawn to try to reassure folks that KBG doesn't start out like PRG or TTTF, and that thin spots are okay in a new KBG lawn. As long as there is even a single KBG grass plant in every 2"x2" square of soil, those plants will grow and spread out in the next growing season (early spring for fall renovations) and by the end of spring, the KBG-only lawn will be just as dense as the PRG lawn was at 30-days. The difference is that the KBG-only lawn will be self-repairing and will stay like that for years if you can keep it disease-free, while the PRG or TTTF one will start to thin out over time and demand overseeding.

kbgfarmer
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » September 30th, 2018, 10:44 pm

andy10917 wrote:
September 30th, 2018, 10:01 pm
How long is "a long, long time ago"?
Original seeding August 14. Reseeded washed out areas with overseeding of other areas August 30. Not to be competitive but I'm hoping really hoping that my anal retentiveness to go with kbg only will dominate the laissez faire jo shmo no mix lawns of my neighbors in a few years. They're probably saying to themselves that my "landscaper" screwed up.

kbgfarmer
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment-Day 56 pics front yard

Post by kbgfarmer » October 11th, 2018, 2:25 pm

Day 56 since original seeding. Day 41 from reseeding and overseeding. Been record breaking rainfall year. We are finally getting a break with no rain in the forecast for a long time but with first frost any day now so no more fertilizing this year until winterizingx Overall, save for the area that the landscapers demolished to fix wall I am fairly happy with how things turned out so far. Back areas that have lots of shade aren't doing as well but I am hopeful they will fill in and thicken next year. I was able to fertilize a few areas this year with the urea regimen and boy they are looking thick and sod like and dark green! I can't imagine what it will look like in a few years time! Leaves have been falling like crazy and I've been mulch mowing them into the lawn. Hard to keep up! Here are pics after mulching.


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KBGkicksazz
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by KBGkicksazz » October 11th, 2018, 3:05 pm

Are you going to start PreM this fall? I’m trying to decide if start now or once snow melts in spring

kbgfarmer
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » October 11th, 2018, 3:47 pm

KBGkicksazz wrote:
October 11th, 2018, 3:05 pm
Are you going to start PreM this fall? I’m trying to decide if start now or once snow melts in spring
I haven't had a ton of weed pressure save for some crabgrass here and there. No annual bluegrass or rough bluegrass that I've noticed. I think I'm going to hold off on preemergent this year and likely next spring as well since I'll be doing lots of reseeding. I'll plan on spot spraying weeds as they pop up. Might be a mistake might not be. May be kicking myself next year but we shall see.

kbgfarmer
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment-few more pic of urea area

Post by kbgfarmer » October 12th, 2018, 5:36 pm

Here are better pics of the best area that received three apps of urea for total of 1.5 lbs/k nitrogen. No tenacity has been used not even at seed down


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KBGkicksazz
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment-few more pic of urea area

Post by KBGkicksazz » October 12th, 2018, 8:27 pm

That’s awesome did all the soil come from offsite or your property? I think I’ll hold off until spring.

My soil was brought in from off site and different sources by builder so I have mild weed pressure.

Nothing I can’t get under control but nothing like yours even though I’ve had excellent germination.
kbgfarmer wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 5:36 pm
Here are better pics of the best area that received three apps of urea for total of 1.5 lbs/k nitrogen. No tenacity has been used not even at seed down


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Image

kbgfarmer
Posts: 485
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Location: Verona, WI
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » October 13th, 2018, 12:23 am

The front yard topsoil was brought in. My soil test for the front is in the soil management area. The back is native soil. I believe the front topsoil came from a corn field so maybe not much weed seed in it?

kbgfarmer
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment-snow mold uncovered

Post by kbgfarmer » March 20th, 2019, 9:27 pm

So the snow has pretty much all melted on my recent attempt at establishing a new lawn. Overall the grass that grew seems like it should do ok in the spring. I do have an area right next to the sidewalk leading to my front door that has what I think is a classic case of gray snow mold. I’ve never had an issue with it at my old place but given that this area was A high fertility area (aggressive fall regimen) last year im not surprised though no potassium was dropped after August I believe. Here are some pics. Lot of work ahead of me this spring.


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kbgfarmer
Posts: 485
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 10:35 am
Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » March 27th, 2019, 9:59 pm

I know that fall is the best time to seed but I have a bunch of bare spots from last fall that will need to be reseeded. How early should I get the seed on the ground in the north central region if I want to have any chance of it surviving summer? I know I will probably have to seed again in fall but I have some leftover bewitched seed from last year that I want to use up before it gets too old and will seed with the new bag I purchased recently in the fall. Is right now too early? Daytime
Temps have been in the 50s with lows usually in mid thirties at night.

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HoosierLawnGnome
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » March 27th, 2019, 10:45 pm

South side of Indy I spring seed when the threat of frost is low. For me earliest seed down is April 5. Check your average last frost date etc.

Basically I dont dormant seed.

And yes, I too will probably have to overseed this fall, be it from summer stress or flooding late spring. Or both. Better to get something going then have a mud pit all summer.

kbgfarmer
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Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » March 28th, 2019, 8:13 pm

Thanks buddy. I looked at the last frost and surprisingly you and I have very similar final frost dates of April 25 and 27 respectively. Looks like given KBG germination taking at best 2 weeks that mid April for seeding may be ok.

kbgfarmer
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » April 8th, 2019, 10:10 pm

Houston we seem to have a big problem! What I thought was contaminant annual ryegrass from last year when the landscaper seeded may actually be forage type broad tall fescue! It’s greened up quite a bit already and has formed clumps all over the front lawn on topsoil that was brought in. My native top soil seeded areas don’t have any of it. My stinking suspicion is that tall fescue seed arrived with the topsoil. I’m guessing f they cot it from some grazing agricultural land. I thought it was annual rue due to it being shiny, clumpy, coarse, and having parallel lines across the leaf. This stuff is also however rolled in the bud and has very deep roots compared to the shallow roots I would expect from annual rye. And unlike annual ryegrass it obviously survived the winter. I added a pic of it below. I’ll get a pic of the entire plant including roots soon. So I guess my coarse of action is either hand pull it or glyphosate it neither of which are ideal options. If chlorsulfuron formerly known as Corsair was still labeled for home lawns I would use that. Apparently 2 spot applications at the highest rate spaced 60 days apart was known to do the trick. Hope it doesn’t accidentally get sprayed on my lawn when I’m using it for my home “right of way” as labeled :o . Apparently Kentucky bluegrass is much more tolerant to chlorsulfuron as compared to its cousin sulfusulfuron (certainty) which can also remove tall fescue but can injure the kBG badly.


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kbgfarmer
Posts: 485
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 10:35 am
Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » April 8th, 2019, 10:10 pm

Houston we seem to have a big problem! What I thought was contaminant annual ryegrass from last year when the landscaper seeded may actually be forage type broad tall fescue! It’s greened up quite a bit already and has formed clumps all over the front lawn on topsoil that was brought in. My native top soil seeded areas don’t have any of it. My stinking suspicion is that tall fescue seed arrived with the topsoil. I’m guessing f they cot it from some grazing agricultural land. I thought it was annual rue due to it being shiny, clumpy, coarse, and having parallel lines across the leaf. This stuff is also however rolled in the bud and has very deep roots compared to the shallow roots I would expect from annual rye. And unlike annual ryegrass it obviously survived the winter. I added a pic of it below. I’ll get a pic of the entire plant including roots soon. So I guess my coarse of action is either hand pull it or glyphosate it neither of which are ideal options. If chlorsulfuron formerly known as Corsair was still labeled for home lawns I would use that. Apparently 2 spot applications at the highest rate spaced 60 days apart was known to do the trick. Hope it doesn’t accidentally get sprayed on my lawn when I’m using it for my home “right of way” as labeled :o . Apparently Kentucky bluegrass is much more tolerant to chlorsulfuron as compared to its cousin sulfusulfuron (certainty) which can also remove tall fescue but can injure the kBG badly.


Image

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kbgfarmer
Posts: 485
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 10:35 am
Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » April 8th, 2019, 10:36 pm

Well I guess maybe it is annual rye since it has a prominent mid vein. Didn’t realize annual rye also has rolled vernation. Why did it survive the winter if it’s an annual?

Green
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by Green » April 9th, 2019, 12:10 am

Yeah, Tall Fescue's midvein is not as prominent, but I have to admit it looks similar in other ways. I've never seen annual rye, but you may be onto something.

TimmyG
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by TimmyG » April 9th, 2019, 11:37 am

kbgfarmer wrote:
April 8th, 2019, 10:36 pm
Well I guess maybe it is annual rye since it has a prominent mid vein. Didn’t realize annual rye also has rolled vernation. Why did it survive the winter if it’s an annual?
Annual ryegrass dies off in the heat of summer. It's actually used as a winter cover in the south. This far north (MA), it may persist through a summer or two.

kbgfarmer
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » April 9th, 2019, 10:56 pm

The more I think about it the more I’m leaning towards annual rye since the specimens I pulled had what appeared to be clasping auricles which is what helps distinguish annual rye from tall fescue. This actually may be a blessing compared to the truly perennial tall fescue. I imagine that after one or two seasons of good premergent use that annual rye should disappear since it dies off in summer and never develops a huge seed bank since it germinates so quickly. Tall fescue is anothe more difficult beast to handle. My landscapers “temp” grass seed must have been present in small numbers on his spreader before he added my bewitched kbg. He was like you don’t want any “temp” grass to use as “cover” while the good grass comes up. I was like no thank you! Looks like I did get some “temp” grass anyway 😡


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