Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
kbgfarmer
Posts: 485
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 10:35 am
Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » September 8th, 2018, 10:26 pm

So I reseeded washed out areas with bewitched seed at day 16. Tomorrow is day 26. When should I realistically start seeing bewitched germination? The integra turf data sheet for bewitched says 21-28 days under ideal conditions which is Sept 20th at the earliest. With first frost around October 10 will these seedlings have made it out of sprout and pout to survive the winter or did I just waste a lot of expensive seed?

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ken-n-nancy
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 9th, 2018, 8:32 am

kbgfarmer wrote:
September 8th, 2018, 10:26 pm
So I reseeded washed out areas with bewitched seed at day 16. Tomorrow is day 26. When should I realistically start seeing bewitched germination? The integra turf data sheet for bewitched says 21-28 days under ideal conditions which is Sept 20th at the earliest. With first frost around October 10 will these seedlings have made it out of sprout and pout to survive the winter or did I just waste a lot of expensive seed?
What have conditions been like in the last 10 days (from days 16 to 26, which would be 10 days since the reseeding)?

From both my experiences and having read of the experiences of others here, it seems that first germination of Bewitched is at 5-6 days under ideal conditions, with most germination by 10 days and nearly all by 14 days. However, less than ideal conditions (a seed bed that is too wet, or that dries out between waterings, etc.) make it take longer. Are you seeing any germination at all?

For reference, I'm not sure how mature Bewitched needs to be to survive the winter, but my 2015 Bewitched renovation (which was seeded on September 9th), never grew tall enough to mow before winter, looked quite pitiful at the end of winter, but by the end of spring looked like a lawn! You can read more and see some photos below.

Oh, and for reference, my "average first frost" is Sept 26th.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17641&p=241997

View from Above, Day 12: (21 Sept 2015)
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View from Above, Day 42: (21 Oct 2015 - last photo before winter)
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View from Above, Day 273: (8 June 2016 - end of spring)
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kbgfarmer
Posts: 485
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 10:35 am
Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » September 9th, 2018, 8:00 pm

Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful reply ken n Nancy. It's hard to say if the germination I'm continuing to see is from the original seeding or from bewitched. The reseeded washed out areas are still covered with the new erosion blankets I installed and I'm not seeing much fuzz popping through yet but am hopeful that there are tiny seedlings hidden underneath. The rest of the front is actually looking very good. Back and sides have some germination but it's weak. Not sure if it has to do wiso h shade. The steep slope in the front ride side is comin in as well. Here are some pics of the front and slope.


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KBGkicksazz
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by KBGkicksazz » September 9th, 2018, 8:13 pm

Looking at those pictures You’re in excellent shape. I can’t tell how tall that grass is but you’re ready for a fert app soon.

Those seeding blankets really did a good job as with the amount of rain you had that seed would likely have washed out.

kbgfarmer
Posts: 485
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 10:35 am
Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » September 9th, 2018, 9:50 pm

KBGkicksazz wrote:
September 9th, 2018, 8:13 pm
Looking at those pictures You’re in excellent shape. I can’t tell how tall that grass is but you’re ready for a fert app soon.

Those seeding blankets really did a good job as with the amount of rain you had that seed would likely have washed out.
Just wish they would have used them everywhere. Hoping the ones I install work just as well. I'm waiting for sprout and pout to end which seems soon in the green areas in front. The grass is appearing to have thicker blades and tiller and height seems to be increasing so I may just apply urea to those areas soon and avoid the areas that have just sprouted. I also may apply tenacity to just those areas that are leaving sprout and pout. The landscaper dropped off his backhoe yesterday in assuming in preparation of fixing the retaining wall and starting on the backyard paver patio. Concerned about all the damage that thing will do to my front lawn!


kbgfarmer
Posts: 485
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 10:35 am
Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » September 10th, 2018, 5:48 pm

Got some good news and bad news today from the landscaper. The good news is that they plan on fixing my big retaining wall in the front. The bad news is they need me to shut off the irrigation to the front zone to firm up the soul. Weather has been cool but I'm concerned about my seedlings dying. Some of the grass is exiting sprout and pout so I really hope it survives and I can get it to spread. He will need to reseed some areas in the front too. I told him I have seed for it and not to use his seed. Anybody else have new grass survive three days without water?

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ken-n-nancy
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Joined: July 17th, 2014, 3:58 pm
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Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 10th, 2018, 6:58 pm

kbgfarmer wrote:
September 10th, 2018, 5:48 pm
Anybody else have new grass survive three days without water?
That will depend entirely upon how dry, hot, and sunny it is during those three days.

If it's relatively damp, cool (in the 50s) and overcast during those three days, no problem - the grass will be fine!

If it's dry, in the 90s, and sunny, the grass won't make it.

My guess is your weather will probably be somewhere in the middle. It will have a shot, but it will depend upon details like how much sun, humidity, soil type, root depth, etc.

KBGkicksazz
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by KBGkicksazz » September 10th, 2018, 7:10 pm

Can you hand water at least? Every little bit will help.

kbgfarmer
Posts: 485
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 10:35 am
Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » September 10th, 2018, 7:34 pm

Thanks for the info ken n Nancy. This is the forecast for the next week or so. Highs in the upper 70s with lows in the 50s and sunny everyday. Can't ask for more beautiful weather. Wish it was like this in late August! I will hand water the edges always from where the retaining wall will be and plan to resume irrigation on Thursday after they finish up.


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kbgfarmer
Posts: 485
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 10:35 am
Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » September 12th, 2018, 9:03 am

So have been hand watering the edges of front lawn away from where they need firm soil to put the retaining wall back up with their back hoe. so far the grass that is not getting irrigated has remained green. Likely since it's leaving sprout and pout and has probably put down some roots. I have been sneaking in a couple 2 minute sprinkles on the front just to try to keep some moisture on any new seedlings. Nerve racking waiting for Thursday to resume real irrigation.

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ken-n-nancy
Posts: 2571
Joined: July 17th, 2014, 3:58 pm
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Grass Type: Front: KBG (Bewitched+Prosperity); Side: Bewitched KBG; Back: Fine Fescue Blend + Prosperity
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 12th, 2018, 9:08 am

kbgfarmer wrote:
September 12th, 2018, 9:03 am
I have been sneaking in a couple 2 minute sprinkles on the front just to try to keep some moisture on any new seedlings.
Sounds like a good plan. Should get some moisture into the baby grass without penetrating deep into the soil.

kbgfarmer
Posts: 485
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 10:35 am
Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » September 15th, 2018, 10:03 am

Another set back. Landscaper came on Thursday to fix wall. Ended up putting wall up but couldn't finish since "soil was still to wet and hard to work". They tore up a significant portion of my front yard in the process. Also crushed one of the irrigation lines in the process so irrigation guy will have to come and fix that as well. Also said they need to bring in a load of topsoils to grade it out again. They left their back hoe here which is a good sign. No rain forecast until this Wednesday so I'm hoping it gets done Monday or Tuesday. The rest of the lawn is looking good. The Bewitched i reseeded a lot of areas is amazing and is sprouting well. I have a ton of trees that are loosing leaves so I experimented with a leaf blower and it works great even with damp leaves. The sprouts underneath looks so much more amazing with the leaves blown off. It will be a decent lawn next year I can already tell. First app of urea will be going down soon in areas where tillering and thickening is happening.

kbgfarmer
Posts: 485
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 10:35 am
Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » September 16th, 2018, 11:09 am

Here are some pictures of the damage and areas of great germination. In the second picture I'm very surprised that the grass on the right near the street and backhoe has survived. It has f been watered for a week now. Must be past the seedling phase and put down some good roots.


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ken-n-nancy
Posts: 2571
Joined: July 17th, 2014, 3:58 pm
Location: Bedford, NH
Grass Type: Front: KBG (Bewitched+Prosperity); Side: Bewitched KBG; Back: Fine Fescue Blend + Prosperity
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 16th, 2018, 1:32 pm

The green grass is looking awesome! I think that, in general, grass seedlings are tougher than we usually give them credit for. KBG seems to focus a lot on root development, too, with roots that seem to be deeper than the blades are tall, at least for the immature grass.

PW405
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by PW405 » September 16th, 2018, 4:34 pm

ken-n-nancy wrote:
September 16th, 2018, 1:32 pm
The green grass is looking awesome! I think that, in general, grass seedlings are tougher than we usually give them credit for. KBG seems to focus a lot on root development, too, with roots that seem to be deeper than the blades are tall, at least for the immature grass.
I've noticed this K&N... My mail carrier walks through my front lawn 6 days a week and I was even considering stopping mail service so that she'll not have to walk through during germination. But... after last year I noticed that the path she takes doesn't have any problems with germinating grass. In fact, her path seems to be one of the best spots in my front lawn, so I've quit worrying about it.

Geeeeezz... KBGFarmer, what a frustrating experience!! Even if you don't get complete germination this fall, you'll certainly will be ready and experienced next Fall for any and all setbacks. That's part of the process, I've learned. This has likely already been mentioned, but you could start some KBG in pots early next spring/late next winter and let them sprout and mature and then plant them in your lawn if you've got some bare spots. I know spring typically isn't ideal for germinating grass ON the lawn, but I think if you go with the pots method you have better chances for survival because they'll be able to develop a decent sized root mass.

kbgfarmer
Posts: 485
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 10:35 am
Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » September 17th, 2018, 10:02 am

Day 34. Did a test urea fertilization of a 400 sq foot area in front that is out of sprout and pout (not really growing super tall but definitely taking on different appearance with lots of tillering). Applied .435 lbs of urea (.5lbs/k n) to 400 sq feet with a wizz spreader and hand watered it in. If it works out then will proceed with fertilizing all areas out of sprout and pout weekly until the pause.

kbgfarmer
Posts: 485
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 10:35 am
Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » September 19th, 2018, 2:15 pm

Day 36. Very widespread germination. The reseeded bewitched is doing wonderful. Blew lot of leaves off the new grass. It's going to be hard keeping up with the leaves. Noticed germination on my septic mound which is so surprising given that it has t been irrigated at all and we have had periods of hot weather with no rain. Seed is under a seed blanket and it's somewhat shaded so maybe it stayed moist enough or grass seed isn't as fragile as we are led to believe. Still no work on the ripped up area near my front retaining wall. This is getting frustrating. The heavier seeded areas are still in sprout and pout and the other areas that aren't seeded as heavy are growing to the sky. Another reason not to seed to heavy and to have patience.

Iowa Jim
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Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by Iowa Jim » September 19th, 2018, 2:25 pm

I am on day 39 on my kbg reno and will be giving it its 3rd mow on sat. What I'm trying to say is hang in there and when you give your lawn its first mow it take off.

kbgfarmer
Posts: 485
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 10:35 am
Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

Post by kbgfarmer » September 20th, 2018, 12:05 pm

Day 37. Starting to look like a lawn. I think it was seeded a little too heavy however. I think the seedlings are all competing for space and water since they haven't really taken off to the sky. Blew more leaves off front side lawn. Can clearly see the drainage routes as they don't have green yet. Hopefully they will fill in next year with spreading KGB. Pulled some PRG and noticed how long the roots are! Hopefully that means the soil is good and the KGB will also have strong roots!






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kbgfarmer
Posts: 485
Joined: July 21st, 2016, 10:35 am
Location: Verona, WI
Grass Type: Bewitched Kentucky bluegrass
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment-day 44 pics

Post by kbgfarmer » September 27th, 2018, 11:57 am

Day 44. Growth has been slow but areas that germinated well are doing well. Lots of areas have overcrowding and are struggling. That's what I get for being impatient after what I thought was significant washouts. The one strip in the front that I've hit with urea twice now got its first haircut today. It's starting to look like a lawn and with it being mowed down doesn't actually appear to have a ton of weeds despite no tenacity this year. That area gives me hope that the rest may soon look like it.


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