Kbgfarmer's new lawn establishment

[kbgfarmer]

How high was the retaining wall was it engineered?

Is it a real wall with a footing, or just stones piled on top of each other?

You got a lot of rain, that would put a lot of stress on any kind of landscaper built retaining wall. Good walls have foundations below the frost line, are backfilled with crushed stone or well drained gravel, and have weep holes to receive the stress from water building up behind them. Actually they should be designed to hold it back just in case it happens.

7" is a lot of rain, it would be a worse case scenario for a lot of site plans.

Not engineered. I imagine the engineer and wall would be Uber expensive. Just something the landscaper put together on the cheap. Rocks on top of each other basically. I'd say it was about 6 feet give or take a foot high. Would putting in a large diameter pvc drain at the low point of the grade and feeding it down through the retaining wall help you think or would the hydrostatic pressure from the soil behind the wall cause failure again? I'm just lucky so far that my irrigation lines didn't get messed up.

[northeastlawn]

Sorry, I was an engineer, not specifically structural or geotechnical, but had enough of it in college to cringe at these types of things.

Six (6) feet is a pretty high wall for a gravity wall. Gravity walls are walls where the weight of the stones hold back the weight of the earth,. In the old days an engineer would make some assumptions and make sure some really big stones weighed enough to prevent the earth from pushing them over. They actually did some math to make sure it worked. Landscapers look at those old abutments and think piling a bunch of rocks on top of each other is the same thing. That might work for a 2' high wall, not for 6'.

No landscaper can guarantee a 6' high wall is not going to fail, they cant do the math, they are just making guesses based on their experiences. How often do they really go back and make sure the walls they build never fall down over time?

Retaining walls sometimes have crushed stone or well drained gravel backfilled behind the wall, with weep holes to relieve the water pressure. Thats not going to work great if the stones themselves aren't strong enough to take the stress.

I can't tell by your pictures, but it looks like you have a driveway going through a low point. The driveway was built up and the retaining wall built to hold the grades back?

If thats the case you kind of have a culvert situation. You may gee able to get a pre-cast culvert head wall, or a short precast wall to be dropped in place. There would be engineering, but not like a poured concrete wall.

I'd start calling masons, and see if any of them feel comfortable building you something. Six (6) feet of stones stacked on top of each other would have to be very big to be strong enough not to fail over time. Im not sure anyone could guarantee anything with out doing the math.

Not sure any of this helps at all. Many people just gloss over the retaining walls when they build or buy a house. A new one is usually not in the typical home owners budget, and is never thought about until the wall fails.

[kbgfarmer]

You are spot on sir about everything. There is a culvert underneath the driveway that exits under the retaining wall that collapsed. Part of the retaining wall did not collapse just the part holding most of the earth back.

[KBGkicksazz]

Look into the locking block retaining blocks from Cambridge or Genest etc.

They will tell you if you what size block is needed. I had a 6 ft retaining wall using Genest Diamond Cut concrete blocks and they held very well.

Not crazy expensive but hopefully your builder covers the labor then not so bad.

You are spot on sir about everything. There is a culvert underneath the driveway that exits under the retaining wall that collapsed. Part of the retaining wall did not collapse just the part holding most of the earth back.

[kbgfarmer]

Thanks for the info! I will look into it!

[kbgfarmer]

Day 10 since original seeding. Starting to see more widespread germination where rainfall didn't wash out seed. Makes me hopeful that at least I will have some grass before winter. My 50 lb bag of bewitched arrived today from seedsuperstore. Will probably save it for spring.

[andy10917]

I love seeing it when the member has the smarts to get the Gold and Blue labels! Smart!

[kbgfarmer]

It's day 12 today and though I'm seeing some widespread germination I'm starting to worry. There are a few areas where it looks like it's coming in well but other areas I have a hard time finding any sprouts. Is this a failed establishment or should I continue to be patient? I'm expecting no germination in areas that washed out which I'll deal with later with erosion control matting. I've been watering regularly and the soil is always moist. I love being on my own personal well! Free water rocks! Guess It really isn't free since upfront cost of putting in well and well pump wasn't cheap!

[KBGkicksazz]

I can’t figure out on mobile where you live?

If you live in the northeast I’d get more seed down as that kind of washout you had you’re going to have thin and bare spots.

It's day 12 today and though I'm seeing some widespread germination I'm starting to worry. There are a few areas where it looks like it's coming in well but other areas I have a hard time finding any sprouts. Is this a failed establishment or should I continue to be patient? I'm expecting no germination in areas that washed out which I'll deal with later with erosion control matting. I've been watering regularly and the soil is always moist. I love being on my own personal well! Free water rocks! Guess It really isn't free since upfront cost of putting in well and well pump wasn't cheap!

[kbgfarmer]

I live in Madison, WI

[schreibdave]

Beautiful house and yard but that looks like a lot of lawn to try to get established DIY. Irrigation system will help but you have your hands full. Keep your expectations modest or you will go crazy.

[kbgfarmer]

Beautiful house and yard but that looks like a lot of lawn to try to get established DIY. Irrigation system will help but you have your hands full. Keep your expectations modest or you will go crazy.

Thanks! Already going crazy. Did more reseeding or washed out areas today. Now I know why landscapers include perennial rye in their mixes! KBG requires patience! Something that I've never been blessed with but am learning.

[schreibdave]

My new house is 2 yrs old and the lawn is in it's second season. I did 100% PR and I am mostly happy with it. The quick germination was my motivation. I seeded in June and wanted a lawn quickly. Original plan was to work on improving my soil chemistry hardscapes, and beds then kill it off and do a reno with elite kbg. That might still happen but it's hard to kill off lawn that you are mostly happy with. Winter kill and/or snow mold die off appear to be the biggest problems here in central NY. Good luck.

[kbgfarmer]

I agree, hard to kill off a nice looking lawn. The reseeding of washed out areas was all futile as heavy rains once again rolled in around 4 pm and washed it all away. Forecast was wrong as usual. I feel like I'm cursed! I'm just too stubborn to give up and plant something quick germinating though it would probably be smart as it would decrease erosion and run off. Going to purchase erosion control blankets and place on the washed out areas. I want to reseed completely but there is so much damn straw mulch everywhere I don't want to disturb it in case their are sprouts hiding underneath.

[KBGkicksazz]

KBG farmer go check out my thread.

Like you I had new construction lawn with soil that cane from wherever and probably multiple sources and not a blade of grass.

I have medium size lawn with a slope to a drainage swale in my front lawn and live in NH which is also mild summers like WI compared to points farther south.

Even with irrigation. I have had to repeat seed as the grass doesn’t seem to want to germinate and I’ve been getting spreading And incrementally getting there
Along with weed elimination.

If I had to start over I would have gone PRG get a good stand of turf with get rid of all the weeds for a season with preM then gone back and killed it to convert to KBG.

Given the slopes and difficulty you have you may want to reconsider getting PRG establishment now and get turf created to hold the soil in place then come back next fall and Reno.

Unfortunately I’ve crossed the rubicon and too far along to start over ibut new soil that’s got no grass and a fresh weed bank is tough sledding for an elite KBG lawn as the first go even after have a good fallowing.. I have all the weapons to fight weeds and keep my lawn watered properly but have had the same issues as you with washouts etc.

I agree, hard to kill off a nice looking lawn. The reseeding of washed out areas was all futile as heavy rains once again rolled in around 4 pm and washed it all away. Forecast was wrong as usual. I feel like I'm cursed! I'm just too stubborn to give up and plant something quick germinating though it would probably be smart as it would decrease erosion and run off. Going to purchase erosion control blankets and place on the washed out areas. I want to reseed completely but there is so much damn straw mulch everywhere I don't want to disturb it in case their are sprouts hiding underneath.

[kbgfarmer]

Thanks for the info. I'm sorry about your struggle with your lawn. I can sympathize. I'm actually getting good germination in the front and back on sloped areas where they installed an erosion control blanket. It's the areas where they just blew straw mulch that are struggling. My next plan of action is to go buy some erosion control blankets. Once I know past germination phase for Kentucky bluegrass I'll rake up as much of the straw mulch as I can and reseed and place erosion blankets on top. I'm at day 13 today so I figure I'll give it 3 more weeks before I do this. Problem is that that will put me within a month of first frost so may be futile. The clearly washed out areas I'll reseed now and place blankets over that. Surprisingly I don't have a lot of weed pressure with my soil and wash out areas must be affecting weed seed as well.

[KBGkicksazz]

having to reseed and delaying the ability to get a preM down doesn’t help either.

Using seed blankets is what helps for sure

Thanks for the info. I'm sorry about your struggle with your lawn. I can sympathize. I'm actually getting good germination in the front and back on sloped areas where they installed an erosion control blanket. It's the areas where they just blew straw mulch that are struggling. My next plan of action is to go buy some erosion control blankets. Once I know past germination phase for Kentucky bluegrass I'll rake up as much of the straw mulch as I can and reseed and place erosion blankets on top. I'm at day 13 today so I figure I'll give it 3 more weeks before I do this. Problem is that that will put me within a month of first frost so may be futile. The clearly washed out areas I'll reseed now and place blankets over that. Surprisingly I don't have a lot of weed pressure with my soil and wash out areas must be affecting weed seed as well.

[kbgfarmer]

Today is day 16. I reseeded bare washed out areas in the front and my wife and I took turns rolling out erosion control blankets. Weather is beautiful and cool but was still sweating like crazy. In other news a damn woodpecker has made a hole in one of my stucco columns and is making its home there! It's always something!

[andy10917]

Advice: always lead your target when shooting a flying bird.

[KBGkicksazz]

Nice job on the mats what kind did you use? Are those the Lowe’s/HD straw ones?

Today is day 16. I reseeded bare washed out areas in the front and my wife and I took turns rolling out erosion control blankets. Weather is beautiful and cool but was still sweating like crazy. In other news a damn woodpecker has made a hole in one of my stucco columns and is making its home there! It's always something!