Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by Iowa Jim » September 23rd, 2018, 7:29 am

Looks great guys.

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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by JHazzardB » September 23rd, 2018, 12:32 pm

Looks amazing K&N! Your conditions and prep for the reno seemed perfect.

How many Urea apps are you guys contemplating before shutting it down for the season? You don't seem to be too timid to push the throttle with your level of oversight and washing in the fertilizer.

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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 23rd, 2018, 3:03 pm

JHazzardB wrote:
September 23rd, 2018, 12:32 pm
Looks amazing K&N! Your conditions and prep for the reno seemed perfect.
Thanks! We're very pleased with how it's going. I think the biggest factor in how well it has gone was the fact that we had zero washouts this year, due to essentially zero rain from our "seed-down" date of August 24th until September 10th -- a 17-day span of practically no rain. We were quite blessed to not have washouts -- we've had at least some washout issues in all of our prior renovations (4 of the last 5 years).

Next time we renovate, I'd push harder to get the seed down even earlier. My target date had been August 15th, which would have been preferable from a calendar perspective. However, washouts would have been an issue, as we had significant thunderstorms on 8/17 and 8/22. Hindsight is always 20/20, but I'd still try to target earlier seed-down in the future.

The other thing I'd do different is scalp lower on the very dense grass areas. We went down to 1.25" and should have gone lower in those spots.
JHazzardB wrote:
September 23rd, 2018, 12:32 pm
How many Urea apps are you guys contemplating before shutting it down for the season? You don't seem to be too timid to push the throttle with your level of oversight and washing in the fertilizer.
That's a good question. The answer is still somewhat up in the air, as the decision will depend upon how the grass responds to the ongoing urea treatments and what the weather does, particularly in terms of amount of sunlight. It's not as much that I'm not timid in pushing the throttle, but more of a matter of having followed the Fall Nitrogen Regimens for 4 prior years, so I better understand the timing and signals the grass gives us about what it's doing when. Maybe most importantly, I've tracked our prior dates of fertilization and when the grass stopped growing for the season. As Andy mentions in the Fall Nitrogen Regimens, "The Pause" is really the 3-4 weeks of natural slowdown and stoppage of growth -- one shouldn't be fertilizing in this period, and preferably any slow release fertilizer is pretty much worn off by this point.

Well, what I've learned for our lawn is when our "average cessation of top growth" occurs on the calendar in each of the prior 4 years -- for our front lawn, this has varied between Nov 20-26, and for the shadier side/back lawns has varied between Nov 13-18 and been about a week before the front lawn. That November date is really the date which dictates most of the fall fertilization calendar -- I want to cease fertilizer applications (start "The Pause") about 4 weeks before the cessation of top growth. This makes the last quick-release fertilizer app for me around mid-Oct for the back lawn and late-Oct for the front lawn. I also want any slow release fertilizer to have been mostly used-up by that date.

I've already decided that the light Bay State Fertilizer app that we made would be the last of those for this year. I'm a big fan of Bay State Fertilizer/Milorganite and didn't want to go the remainder of the fall without putting any down at all, but also wanted to have its effect largely worn off by mid-Oct. So, presuming that it lasts about a month, the last application should be in mid-Sept, which was last week. Since I was a little after that and would also be applying some quick-release urea, I went light (0.32#N/ksqft) on the Bay State.

For the urea, I'll be making weekly applications. In past years on established grass, I've been making applications of 1#urea/ksqft =~0.5#N/ksqft every 7-10 days or so in September and early October. I'm notionally planning similar fertilization at that level for a few more weeks, with the last application probably being at half that rate around mid-Oct for the back lawn and late-Oct for the front lawn. I haven't tried to count out the number of applications before just this instant, but given that I fertilized on 9/21, that gives a tentative plan of future weekly fertilization on 9/28, 10/5, and 10/12. I'll probably have the 10/19 app be only 0.25#N/ksqft, except for the front (which historically stops growth a week later for me) and then have a 10/26 app be only 0.25#N/ksqft on the front.

All of the above tentative plan is subject to how the grass seems to be doing. If I'm seeing signs of nitrogen burn or completely excessive top growth, I'll dial back the N applications to more like 0.25#N/ksqft each week. I'll also end up moving dates a bit (usually stretching the times out) if there's heavy rain to worry about. If the weather gets real cold or is extremely cloudy, so that growth is slowing earlier, I'll also reduce rates or stretch out the application times.

In any case, the above is what I'm thinking, subject to the vagaries of the weather and potentially changing our mind if the grass doesn't seem to be responding as we anticipate.

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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by FrankZ » September 26th, 2018, 4:18 pm

KnN- do you guys have built in irrigation or are you using sprinklers?

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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 26th, 2018, 4:47 pm

FrankZ wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 4:18 pm
KnN- do you guys have built in irrigation or are you using sprinklers?
We have an in-ground irrigation system. As always, this year's renovation projects are a bit of a challenge, as there's always a sprinkler head or two that isn't in the area being renovated, or is kind of half-in / half-out of the renovation area.

Curious as to why you ask?


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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by FrankZ » September 26th, 2018, 4:52 pm

Nice.

I just wanted to see if you were doing the sprinkler jockey:) I have a huge yard and always dream of a reno, but lack of irrigation is the show stopper(well water).

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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 26th, 2018, 4:59 pm

FrankZ wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 4:52 pm
I just wanted to see if you were doing the sprinkler jockey:) I have a huge yard and always dream of a reno, but lack of irrigation is the show stopper(well water).
Having to move sprinklers for a 5000sqft renovation would be a lot of work. We wouldn't have renovated portions of our lawn in 5 of the prior 6 years if we had to be moving sprinklers regularly!

Then again, we might just do things differently, and be more concerned about using peat moss to help spread out watering intervals more.

We should mention that our irrigation is on our household well. Our well only produces about 5-6 gallons per minute (5-6 gpm) so it takes a long time to irrigate our entire property. However, that's okay -- the slower water delivery just gives the water more time to soak into the soil to avoid runoff.

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2018-09-26 - Status Update

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 26th, 2018, 5:04 pm

Yesterday was a "rain day" during which most of the rain was pretty gentle, but during which there were occasional downpours. We picked up a total of 1.4 inches of rain altogether.

Seems like the grass has nearly all survived, although we have a couple "ponding areas" in the front that we'd rather not have, but remedying them would require more re-grading than we'd like to undertake now that the grass has been recently seeded! That said, the ponding issues in the front are definitely better now than they used to be, so at least we've made a step in the proper direction!

It seems that the grass that was mowed previously has grown enough more to warrant another mowing. It also seems that some grass that wasn't tall enough to reach the mower last time would be tall enough now. We'd like to be able to mow tonight if Ken can get home before dark and the rain forecasted for tonight hasn't moved in yet -- it's getting more challenging to do lawn care in the evenings now -- the 9pm sunsets are practically ancient history and it's now getting pretty dark by 6:45pm...

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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by Iowa Jim » September 27th, 2018, 9:18 am

FrankZ wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 4:52 pm
Nice.

I just wanted to see if you were doing the sprinkler jockey:) I have a huge yard and always dream of a reno, but lack of irrigation is the show stopper(well water).
FrankZ: I just did a kbg reno on 12,000 sf, with just a sprinkler and let me tell you it was a lot of work. With that being said it is doable. I watered a little heavier than what is recommended and only watered twice a day,probably lucky but i did not get any funguses. It just takes dedication and a lot of dragging hoses around. Good luck if you ever try to do it.

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Ken-n-Nancy's Lawn Journal - Bears in Our Oak Tree Today!

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 27th, 2018, 8:44 pm

Today, when I pushed the mower over to the side lawn, I was dismayed to see a whole bunch of small fallen branches, bark pieces, and twigs with healthy leaves under the huge white oak tree at the edge of our lawn, particularly as I had just picked up a whole bunch of fallen oak tree parts this morning! Indeed, this has been the case practically every day for the past week. I've been worried that the tree had some sort of disease or something, although a lot of the twigs have appeared as if they've been broken off, rather than died.

Then, just as I was standing there, trying to find the encouragement to pick up another batch of fallen oak tree parts, a small branch comes fluttering down next to me from out of the tree, so I look up into the tree, and there's a black bear in the tree! Wait, there's not just one black bear, there's two!

I decided I better head into the house to continue my observation of the bears and ended up filming the video linked below.

Turns out, there were actually 4 bears in two big trees in our yard! Guess I need to put "look for bears" on my "getting ready to mow the lawn" checklist! :-)

Video of Bears in Ken-n-Nancy's Oak Tree - http://www.solidrocksolutions.com/aty/2 ... -Trees.mp4

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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by Masbustelo » September 27th, 2018, 8:55 pm

That's a crazy story!

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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by kbgfarmer » September 27th, 2018, 10:13 pm

That is amazing. I thought my wooded lot was crazy with all kinds of critters such as coyotes, groundhogs, woodpeckers, deer, and turkeys but thank god no black bears!

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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by andy10917 » September 27th, 2018, 10:17 pm

Black bears are very common around here - I've seen two this week.

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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 27th, 2018, 11:11 pm

Just wanted to apologize for the video download being a bit slow. I don't have a non-identifying youtube account to which to upload the video, so downloads may take a while. I did just reduce the video file size to about 1/3 of what it was originally, so if you started trying to view it earlier, but gave up because it was too slow, it may work better now.
Masbustelo wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 8:55 pm
That's a crazy story!
I'm just glad to have a solution to the mystery of what's been causing all the fallen bark and branches from our oak trees this past week!

kbgfarmer wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 10:13 pm
That is amazing. I thought my wooded lot was crazy with all kinds of critters such as coyotes, groundhogs, woodpeckers, deer, and turkeys but thank god no black bears!
andy10917 wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 10:17 pm
Black bears are very common around here - I've seen two this week.
We've had them on our deck before, but we've never seen four at once, or up in any of our trees, either. Then again, it's possible they could have been there before - I don't know that I would have looked up in the tree if the branch hadn't floated down next to me!

Guess we're going to need to be more careful to keep the garage door closed so they don't go in there after the trash bags...

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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by Dargin » September 28th, 2018, 4:53 pm

You could always spray them with tenacity and sell some tickets to the polar bear exhibit. Seriously though, that's a little too close for comfort. Yikes. :o

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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 29th, 2018, 1:45 pm

Haven't seen any more bear activity since seeing the 4 bears in our huge oak tree a few days ago. Maybe our presence near them kind of scared them away for a while?

The squirrels and chipmunks, however, don't seem to be deterred by anything. There's enough squirrel-dug holes visible in the front lawn under renovation that it practically looks like we did core aeration on it!

Back to the lawn, though... I haven't provided any updates on the "side lawn patch repairs" that I mentioned in my first post in this thread and that have been going on simultaneously with the front lawn renovation.

Sometimes people ask if the Kentucky bluegrass will get darker than what they see a couple weeks after germination. Yes, the baby KBG is kind of lime green (eerily reminiscent of poa trivialis) but it will darken up a lot in a few months, and then even more over the following year.

I figured that a picture might help illustrate the difference, so I took a picture of the patch repair areas in our side lawn Bewitched KBG monostand. The color difference between the 4-week old Bewitched patches and the 3-year old established KBG is apparent even to those that aren't crazy about their lawns!

I reckon the patches probably won't really blend in to the rest of the lawn until the end of next spring.

Image

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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by greenrebellion » September 29th, 2018, 3:36 pm

Some say Bewitched doesn't get to full color for 2 years or more (though obviously the colors should be pretty close by Spring next year). I will be comparing my front and back yard renos done one year apart, both Bewitched, to see if there is any noticeable color difference in years 2 and 3.

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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 29th, 2018, 5:14 pm

greenrebellion wrote:
September 29th, 2018, 3:36 pm
Some say Bewitched doesn't get to full color for 2 years or more (though obviously the colors should be pretty close by Spring next year). I will be comparing my front and back yard renos done one year apart, both Bewitched, to see if there is any noticeable color difference in years 2 and 3.
Ooh, I'll be interested to hear about what you find. I take it that you had still noticed a color difference between the year 1 and year 2 renovations? Do the two areas actually abut each other somewhere?

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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by greenrebellion » September 29th, 2018, 5:23 pm

Actually I'm not even at 1 versus 2 yet, that will be next fall. But the good news is that there is a very straight line between the front reno (2017) and the back (current year) and so I will take pictures in Fall 2019 and Fall 2020 to see if there is any coloration difference between the borders.

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Re: Ken-n-Nancy's 2018 Front Lawn Renovation - "War on Triv"

Post by Marinegrunt » September 29th, 2018, 7:05 pm

I just finished reading your whole thread and thoroughly enjoyed it. Looks like all of your planning haspaid off because the results prove it. I can't wait to see what it looks like over the next few years!

I did a reno last fall and also got lucky not having any washouts. We have a sloped yard due to a walkout basement so that was my biggest fear. I basically expected at least one so was very relieved it never happened.

Thanks for sharing!

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