Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
Masbustelo
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Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by Masbustelo » September 17th, 2018, 10:58 am

This is my first post. I've been reading here for several weeks and decided to sign up. I live in Illinois, on a Loess bluff above the Mississippi River. My house is somewhere between 150-125 years old, and the lawn area consists of a front yard,South side yard, and back yard. Approximately 5 thousand square feet of "grass". I have lived here for 25 years. In this 25 years, I may have fertilized and used weed and feed, the sum total of once or twice. I do have somewhat of an agronomy background and am an experienced vegetable gardener. This year I bought a used craftsman 6.5 H.P mower at a yard sale. I set it at it's highest setting, left for two months, and assigned the self propelled mowing responsibilities to my wife. I assumed that the higher setting would choke out the Northern mix of creeping charlie, nimble will, crabgrass, violets, Dan de Leon and the myriad of other agents at work in this concoction. In my neighborhood this is the Northern mix grown by all. So upon return, to my dismay, creeping charlie had taken over my estate. In mid July I purchased a dethatching hand rake and tore out about 4-5 wheel barrow loads of Charles. This left large patches of bare dirt. I seeded these in with the least expensive shade mix available from Menard's. Whatever is in this mix sprouted nicely. I then noticed something growing in large areas similar to bent-grass. Having worked on golf courses, I knew it wasn't bent grass. Whatever it was it was a handsome stand. I didn't know if it was some unusual shade variety. To my dismay I discovered what is known as nimble will. Once again I went on the dethatching attack and between this and crabgrass, tore out a total of 14 wheelbarrow loads. Once again very large areas of bare dirt. Complications with my "turf" situation are the ten mature red oak, apple, soft maple, honey locust,and cucumber magnolia surrounding the periphery of the yard. This is after I cut down six of my neighbors trees a few days ago. They asked me to. Also Mixed in are 11 wine grape vines with trellis. Because of the grapes I have to be very careful about herbicide and chemical use. The grapes are showing signs of magnesium deficiency which seems to be associated with acidic soil conditions. I ran a home soil Ph test with a digital Ph meter I have. It showed 5.9. I purchased one bag of Pelletized rapid release lime (said - up to 4,000 sq. ft.) I aerated the front and side yard, put down the lime, spread epsom salts around the grape vines, cast 12 pounds more of Menards cheapest grass seed (Turf Champ® Shade Grass Seed) (40% Perennial Ryegrass, 35% Annual Ryegrass, 25% Creeping Red Fescue),one pound of Dutch clover, two cubic yards of city type compost. I seeded half first, then spread the compost with a shovel. Then on topp of the compost prior to harrowing I sowed the rest of the seed.Then I made a homemade drag out of hardware cloth and hand harrowed the front and side yard. This nicely leveled out the ruts and hollows. Since then, it has rained three inches and I have been watering daily. I sowed some clover last year, and have nice stands of it in some areas. I don't mind a clover mix, and have so much shade, I want to see if anything other than weeds will grow. At the moment lots of grass like stuff growing in the yard, and clover sprouting too. Today I plan to take a soil sample to send in to your recommended lab. Sorry for the essay. There is some K31 fescue growing in areas. In my back yard are six chickens mowing through 1500 square feet of perhaps tall fescue, a little bluegrass, clover, K31. This is fill dirt from a neighbors swimming pool 15 years ago, and the contractor seeded it with some kind of an appropriate mix for the sunlight there. I've overseeded it as well. The chickens are going to town on the tender daily watered grass.

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andy10917
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by andy10917 » September 17th, 2018, 11:26 am

Where to start?

You have a pile of challenges there. Your lawn appears to be what I call a "museum of grasses" - you have every variety under the sun, a serious weed collection, shade, fill used instead of topsoil, etc, etc.

Let's start with this: what are your expectations and goals, what is the amount of time/money you're willing to spend on this (not specific numbers - more like "nothing", "only small amounts", "whatever it takes"). What do you want to tackle first?

Masbustelo
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Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by Masbustelo » September 17th, 2018, 11:55 am

Andy Thanks for your response. Over the weekend, I spot applied Weed-B-Gon to the dandelions and violets. They really aren't horrible in number. For a month I have been hand pulling remaining creeping charley and nimble will. Right now there is little visual presence of them. Virtually no crabgrass presently. I plan on purchasing some Tenacity this week and then plan on using it to spot apply where necessary this fall, and again in the spring. I don't want to blanket apply it because, perhaps the clover will grow and grass maybe not. At this point I don't know what will flourish that is desirable. I do have a backpack sprayer and plan on applying a shampoo treatment. Later this week, I also plan on purchasing Milorganite and then use it yard wide in two weeks. I lean to the organic side of things, but have an understanding of fungicides, have both Mancozeb, potassium bicarbonates, and Serenade at my disposal. I think my objective is to have a basically weed free lawn, that would be a composite of TTTF, Bluegrass, various fescues and clover. I could live with that. Managed primarily with an organic regimen. I don't have a sprinkler system, and probably won't be watering much, long range. I am also gone for several months at a time. Two weeks ago in the rear yard, I applied Chick N Poo Organic Fertilizer, 2-4-3, 8% calcium, at 50% the reccommended amount. Last week I applied 16% protein layer mash and watered it in. Thats about all I know.

bpgreen
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by bpgreen » September 17th, 2018, 7:47 pm

A few comments:

1) The violets that you sprayed with WBG are laughing at you. You should read the article on the triangle approach.
2) You didn't directly answer Andy's questions. I'll repeat them here: What are your expectations and goals? What is the amount of time and money you're willing to spend?

I kind of infer that your expectations and goals are to get a decent mostly weed free lawn, but not necessarily a showcase.

The effort you've put in with hand pulling, raking, thatching, etc seems to lean toward "whatever it takes" but the decades of neglect up to this point and the reliance on the cheapest seed seem to point more in the opposite direction, so I'm kind of at a loss.

Fullheadofturf1234
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by Fullheadofturf1234 » September 17th, 2018, 10:13 pm

Gone for months on end without an irrigation system doesnt bode well.

I wouldnt even try anything without intalling an irrigation system.

An application of pre emergant is just about the only thing id reccomend based off the info you gave.


Masbustelo
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by Masbustelo » September 17th, 2018, 11:03 pm

I cant really answer Andy's questions, because I'm too ignorant. I can't say about time and money because I don't know what I'm dealing with here. Although it has become about a full time job. With the kaleidoscope of sun and shade, I don't know if I have enough sun to grow any decent turf. Since I don't realistically know if anything reasonable will grow, it's kind of hard to set expectations. My hope is to have a yard that is essentially weed free and a mix of TTTF, clover , fescues, and bluegrass. I am too ignorant to be able to say how much time and money, I don't know what others do, or what is unrealistic. I really don't know very much about lawns and turf grasses, but you guys seem to know your stuff, and I am here to learn. Some of you are years ahead of me on the curve. I haven't even owned a mower for years. Right on the front of WBG it shows pretty pictures of violets and says it kills them.

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andy10917
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by andy10917 » September 17th, 2018, 11:09 pm

OK, you can't fight a war on 4-5 different fronts at once.

Start with the Triangle Approach for weed control. You can get Level 1 and maybe some of Level 2 done this season - there is time.

Masbustelo
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by Masbustelo » September 17th, 2018, 11:16 pm

I'll re read the triangle approach. I read it and thought the first approach would be the Weed b Gon. I must have missed something I should have seen. I sent in a soil sample to Logan Labs today, and applied 4oz. generic shampoo to 1000K this afternoon.

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andy10917
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by andy10917 » September 18th, 2018, 7:04 am

Level 1 of the Triangle Approach can be done with Weed-B-Gon. Do two applications, 14 days apart. Two weeks after the second app of Level 1, start Level 2 with a product containing 8% or more of Triclopyr - "Weed-B-Gon Clover, Chickweed and Oxalis Killer" is an example of a good Level 2 herbicide.

Masbustelo
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Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
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Level: Some Experience

Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by Masbustelo » September 18th, 2018, 9:29 am

Ok. Andy Thanks. I'm on it. I pulled any emerging crabgrass this morning, and pulled K31's also. Really there isnt too much K31. For the first time ever it is starting to look like a lawn. Thank you to all for suggestions. The dandelions are wilting and very little nimblewill and creeping charly evidence. Too soon to tell with the violetas.

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andy10917
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by andy10917 » September 18th, 2018, 9:40 am

As BPGREEN mentioned, the Wild Violets are going to laugh at WBG. It takes 2-3 applications of WBG Clover, Chickweed and Oxalis Killer (which we abbreviate to "CCO") to eliminate them, and the kill does not even make them look a little sick for 10-12 days. Treatments must be repeated at 14 days, or they will start to recover, lengthening the process. Be patient, it WILL work at Level 2.

Masbustelo
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by Masbustelo » September 18th, 2018, 9:56 am

You guys know your stuff.

TimmyG
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by TimmyG » September 18th, 2018, 10:52 am

Let's keep in mind that Masbustelo has intentionally seeded and wants clover in the lawn. To accomplish that, WBG will have to be applied conservatively (assuming blanket apps), and triclopyr (CCO) will need to be reserved for targeted spot spraying of violets (and other difficult weeds).

Masbustelo
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by Masbustelo » September 18th, 2018, 11:11 am

Thanks Timmy G. The other complicating factor is that I have grape vines parallel to the grass areas. The grape roots can travel 20-30 feet and I don't have any idea where they are. Grapes are very sensitive to herbicides, so I have to be careful. My plan is to use WBG and CCO very selectively and then switch to Tenacity, which appears to be compatible with the grapes and is currently under consideration to be approved for use in vineyards. If I can establish a Northern Blend turf, that is relatively weed free, I'll be doing good. The other thing I'll have to keep an eye on is excess nitrogen that will stimulate vine growth at the expense of fruiting. Sort of like with tomatoes, you can get all vines and no tomatoes. I'm curious what my soil test will show.

Masbustelo
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Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by Masbustelo » September 20th, 2018, 10:23 pm

I took this picture of my seeding today. It's been two weeks and I've had good germination, I'm planning on cutting it this weekend for the first time.
Image

Masbustelo
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Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by Masbustelo » September 21st, 2018, 6:53 pm

I jury rigged my 6.5HP Lawnboy to day with a mulching blade and blocked the discharge chute. They don't sell the mulching plug any more. Then I mowed my real grass for the first time. It's pretty rewarding to go from at least half weeds to real grass. Even after two weeks my lawn in 25 years has never looked this good. How sad is that? Two weeks ago I never even new that mulching blades and mowers existed. I'm learning a lot reading on here. I am "green as the grass in the fairway". I remeasured and have 2,860 sq. feet of "turf". I tore out 14 wheelbarrow loads of creeping charley, nimblewill and crabgrass, with a dethatching rake.

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andy10917
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by andy10917 » September 22nd, 2018, 8:09 am

That's a lot of work! Glad to hear it's going well and rewarding you!

Masbustelo
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by Masbustelo » September 26th, 2018, 2:44 pm

Monday I put down Milorganite at 16lbs per K. It was the golf course mix in a 50 lb. bag. I think it was 6-2-0. Yesterday 1 3/4 of rain in about ten minutes. Today per my soil test, I diluted 9 tablespoons of 20 Muleteam Borax in 8 gallons of water along with clarifying shampoo and sprayed my 3,000k of lawn. I also sprayed the foliage on my grapes. I was reading that they respond well to Boron applied foliar in the fall. After three weeks, whatever I'm growing looks better than what ever I had before in 25 years. I appreciate the advice I've received on here. I also discovered that if you boil 20 Muleteam in your wifes kitchen pots it leaves them looking like new.

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andy10917
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by andy10917 » September 26th, 2018, 2:50 pm

The amounts of micronutrients applied as a foliar spray are MUCH smaller than the amounts supplied to you in the annual plan and the Micronutrient Application Guide. Boron can be toxic to plants (including grasses) if overapplied.

Masbustelo
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Re: Masbustelo's Semi Renovation

Post by Masbustelo » September 26th, 2018, 3:10 pm

Andy I guess I'll have to see what happens. We're supposed to have rain for the next 6 days to wash it all in and off. I forgot to say that on Monday I mixed Tenacity at 1/4 teaspoon to the gallon and spot sprayed nimblewill, violets and whatever other broadleaf weeds, and unknown weeds I could find. I think I may have weed species that the botanists haven't named yet.The main agricultural product in my area is nimblewill and creeping charley. We produce these by the ton. I found this about grapes: Grapevine foliage is also more tolerant to boron postharvest in the fall, when 1 pound per acre of actual boron can be safely applied. I think I might have double dosed.

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