Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
umbo514
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by umbo514 » December 16th, 2018, 4:09 pm

Hey guys.... we’re only a little into the off season and all I can think about is this Reno. I promised some pictures; I took them awhile ago but it will help show how sparse the germination was. Between the late seed drop and a major storm washing out most of the seed I am happy some seed took helping to keep some of the soil through winter and spring rains.

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We’ve had some cold kill as I’m assuming some of the grass wasn’t mature enough. And I never mowed since the grass didn’t grow past 2 inches.

So! I really would like to put together a solid plan of attack for this spring. I’m nervous as I have only attempted a spring overseed before I knew of aroundtheyard and that obviously ended up a waste of time. So I guess question one: spring reno or hold off for fall? I might have to answer that after we get through more of winter because I expect a lot more winter kill as I already lost a good amount. I am up for the spring reno challenge, so time and effort does not scare me. Failure would hurt but I’m not expecting a home run anyway as I know this is definitely a marathon.

umbo514
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by umbo514 » December 16th, 2018, 4:28 pm

Two more images:

Image

Image

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andy10917
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by andy10917 » December 16th, 2018, 7:57 pm

What's your reason for taking on the extra challenges of a Spring renovation? Doubling-down on a partially-failed renovation with other challenges isn't exactly the road to success. I suspect that you know that but are tempted to push your luck. Not recommended...

umbo514
Posts: 99
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by umbo514 » December 17th, 2018, 11:09 am

Andy,

My reasoning behind a spring reno is that the idea of not having a backyard lawn for the 2nd summer in a row would be upsetting, BUT I could live with that. Also I was inspired by reading through Bales9er's spring reno post:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=23784

Green
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by Green » December 18th, 2018, 12:03 am

I wouldn't kill what you already did this Fall...what's the use of that? Some of it should make it through. If you have to overseed this Spring, you can do that, though. In fact, I'd recommend it if it's necessary. It's going to take a lot of frequent watering, and being on the lookout for disease, but it can be done. We can guide you through it.


umbo514
Posts: 99
Joined: June 23rd, 2017, 6:35 am
Location: Rhode Island
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by umbo514 » December 18th, 2018, 4:12 pm

Green wrote:
December 18th, 2018, 12:03 am
I wouldn't kill what you already did this Fall...what's the use of that? Some of it should make it through. If you have to overseed this Spring, you can do that, though. In fact, I'd recommend it if it's necessary. It's going to take a lot of frequent watering, and being on the lookout for disease, but it can be done. We can guide you through it.
I'm sorry, I did not mean I wanted to kill the grass that survives the winter! I said reno because it was a larger than normal overseed, at least in my eyes. Thank you Green, I would love to start putting together a plan with all of you guys!

Green
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by Green » December 18th, 2018, 4:49 pm

umbo514 wrote:
December 18th, 2018, 4:12 pm
I'm sorry, I did not mean I wanted to kill the grass that survives the winter! I said reno because it was a larger than normal overseed, at least in my eyes. Thank you Green, I would love to start putting together a plan with all of you guys!
Thanks. I'd be happy to help, having done it before. Just have realistic expectations...most likely, at least some additional seeding will be needed again in late Summer.

umbo514
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by umbo514 » March 8th, 2019, 1:24 pm

Hey everyone, it looks like the weather is slowly turning for the better so I wanted to get the last item needed for my planned spring overseed. I need to make a decision on seed type. I’ve decided to go the PRG route. I am trying to choose from the following:
Lesco Double Eagle (I’ve had good results with it in the past)
PhD blend from Hogans (Karma, Thrive and bandalore)
SS9000 from SeedSuperStore (Grand Slam, Stellar and Karma)

Anyone have experience with PhD blend or SS9000 and would recommend one over the other? I’ve read through seed type data and all seem pretty solid, any seed types standout against the rest? Seed super store blend seems expensive and I’m not sure what the reasoning for the upcharge is. As of now I’m leaning towards Hogans PhD blend and believe it would be a good match for my situation.

Green
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by Green » March 9th, 2019, 2:34 am

"Karma" is a known top of the heap variety.

Hogan also has 0.0% weed and other crop in most cases. If their cost with shipping added in is still competitive with the cost of the Double Eagle, I would go Hogan. Nothing wrong with the Double Eagle though!

Read the labels, compare pricing, research cultivars if needed, and make an educated decision!

umbo514
Posts: 99
Joined: June 23rd, 2017, 6:35 am
Location: Rhode Island
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by umbo514 » March 27th, 2019, 11:14 pm

So I ordered PhD PRG blend from Hogans; the price with shipping worked out to be even with Lesco Double Eagle. I got extra knowing that a fall overseed should be expected. I was able to walk the yard and the grass is extremely thin in areas or just bare dirt. My plan is as follows, any advice would be appreciated:

1. 3/18/19- Soil samples of both front and backyard sent into Logan Labs; in queue.

2. Once ground defrosts address spots of witnessed compaction with a pitch fork (actively working on this).

3. Apply BLSC and KH.

4. Rake area to gather debris and fix topsoil washout in certain locations.

5. Around April 13 pending weather- drop 4 to 7 lbs/k of PhD (Thrive, Karma, Bandalore)

6. Get good seed to soil contact; depending on ground saturation, drive tractor around.

7. Spread peat moss top dressing.

8. Apply tenacity at 4 oz/acre rate with 1.75x bottle rate of lazer blue.

9. Set up sprinklers with orbit timers.

10. Maintain water coverage.

11. @ 30 days apply second application of tenacity at 4 oz/acre rate w/ lazer blue marking dye.

12. @ +60 days post germination, apply Barricade 65 @ ~3 month rate to allow for fall overseed.

Most importantly, water, water and water. I have a dedicated well for the yard so I know I will be exercising it throughout the summer. I will only water in the morning before work to help minimize disease. I will be applying preventative Serenade apps.

Green
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by Green » March 30th, 2019, 10:06 pm

umbo,

The only parts I would really quibble about are steps 11 and 12. Nothing wrong with what you plan to do, just that the timing may vary from what you predicted. Don't go by a fixed number of days; go by when the lawn is ready. Usually, Tenacity can be used without fear of repeat overbleaching after the second (low) mow. It will last up to 6 weeks per app if you really need to stretch it out, but the post effect will kill any germinating grassy weeds, anyway, so no big deal even if there is a small gap in coverage between the apps. Do you have a manual reel mower yet? If not, I highly suggest one for the first few mows. You can go really low, they're light, and they don't rip or suck out the grass. For step 12, it's usually 60 days after germination, but it may be later. Or, it may be earlier (considering PR is faster. Play it by ear.

umbo514
Posts: 99
Joined: June 23rd, 2017, 6:35 am
Location: Rhode Island
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by umbo514 » April 2nd, 2019, 8:49 am

Green, thanks for the advice and I will most definitely see how lawn is progressing before my second tenacity app. I got my hands on a reel mower, however it needs some desperate tlc. I know it will be worth it because my 21 inch push mower with rear wheel drive can tare up even a mature lawn.

Do you think that seed drop date is reasonable for our areas? I’ve never really measured soil temperatures before, would that be better?

Green
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by Green » April 2nd, 2019, 9:17 pm

Honestly, my opinion is seed is durable enough to withstand the weather this time of year in general, and I think you're good for the end of next week, without a doubt, as long as you have a dry, low-wind day or two to drop seed.

I may have to pick up some of the PhD blend from Hogan, if I can't find my usual cultivars. Believe it or not, it's all they have left right now in ryegrass (other than "Linn", which is basically the KY-31 of ryegrasses, that is--light color, wide blade, fast growth rate, poor mowing quality even with a sharp blade, etc.).

Green
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by Green » April 2nd, 2019, 9:22 pm

Also: Is your ground nice and soft, overall, so the seed can have a chance to root into it?

umbo514
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by umbo514 » April 3rd, 2019, 9:38 pm

Ok good that’s what I was thinking, the end of next week. I just need to watch the forecast and if I can avoid any heavy rain.

When ordering only a few weeks ago they had other PRG types but I was just looking for a blend. Ordering through Hogan was easy, only thing that bothered me a little was 1/3 of my cost was due to shipping. But it still beat out the others I was deciding between.

The ground is really nice and soft. I used a pitchfork in areas where I saw puddling and after our recent storm there was no standing water shortly after the rain stopped. I also applied BLSC before the rain came, so it got watered in. I will lightly rake prior to dropping seed, but need to be careful not to tare up existing grass as I did in some areas (I’ve found very shallow roots on most of the grass that took late last fall). I’ve also been touching up areas in which I had some top soil wash out.

umbo514
Posts: 99
Joined: June 23rd, 2017, 6:35 am
Location: Rhode Island
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by umbo514 » April 15th, 2019, 11:51 am

I wanted to give a spring overseed update to everyone. So far I have followed my plan laid out in an earlier post for a total of 3000 sqft. I broke the initial 3000sqft into 3 sections and the first section was seeded on 4/9. I do not see any germination as of yet, as expected, but hopefully within a couple of days. A thunderstorm rolled through this morning but luckily yesterday I was able to put down tarps in areas susceptible to washout. Unfortunately I could not protect every sloped area and the 2 + inches of rain caused some moderate areas of washout. In order to keep moving forward and partly because I applied tenacity at seed down, I will not try to add additional seed at this time to these areas, I will just see what survived the heavy rains and if it is thin it can wait till the fall. Goal for this week is to overseed another section which is 4k sqft. The rain forecasted for this weekend is expected to be steady; good grass growing rain… fingers crossed.

umbo514
Posts: 99
Joined: June 23rd, 2017, 6:35 am
Location: Rhode Island
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by umbo514 » April 17th, 2019, 9:56 pm

Day 8 since seed down, no signs of germination. Low 60s during the day but high 30s at night. Hopefully soon.

umbo514
Posts: 99
Joined: June 23rd, 2017, 6:35 am
Location: Rhode Island
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by umbo514 » April 19th, 2019, 9:44 am

Day 10 no germination... for PRG when should I start to worry? I’m thinking I just dropped too early.

Green
Posts: 6837
Joined: September 14th, 2012, 10:53 pm
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Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by Green » April 19th, 2019, 11:11 pm

umbo514 wrote:
April 19th, 2019, 9:44 am
Day 10 no germination... for PRG when should I start to worry? I’m thinking I just dropped too early.
Soil temps are still a bit on the cool side right now. It might take longer than in the late Summer. You're not going to see 3 or probably even 5-day germination this time of year. I would say if you hit 2 weeks without a single seed germinating, then maybe it's time to start being slightly concerned. And even then, the thing to do is not panic, but do a germination test with seed in a moist paper towel in a ziplock bag, and see how many days it takes.

umbo514
Posts: 99
Joined: June 23rd, 2017, 6:35 am
Location: Rhode Island
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

Post by umbo514 » April 26th, 2019, 7:17 am

Green wrote:
April 19th, 2019, 11:11 pm
Soil temps are still a bit on the cool side right now. It might take longer than in the late Summer. You're not going to see 3 or probably even 5-day germination this time of year. I would say if you hit 2 weeks without a single seed germinating, then maybe it's time to start being slightly concerned. And even then, the thing to do is not panic, but do a germination test with seed in a moist paper towel in a ziplock bag, and see how many days it takes.
Germination!! Widespread germination at 12 days from seed down; have some thin spots due to washouts with the crazy spring thunderstorms we’ve been having. I seeded another 4000 sqft Monday. When is it too late to get the rest of the seed down? If I don’t get the seed down before May 1st, should I hold off for the fall? I know this situation isn’t optimal in the first place and I don’t want to push it, but I know PRG is quick to mature. I’m pretty sure I can get another 2k completed by the end of this weekend.

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