Umbo's Late Backyard Reno

[umbo514]

Hey everyone, so this backyard renovation has been underway for quite some time. We bought new construction and shortly after moving in we realized that the grading was incorrect in the backyard. Fast forward to today, the grading is complete and the landscapers are in route(yes I know very late). Weather pending, they should be here late this week/ early next week.

Background… ~10,000 sqft, I cleared some trees during the grading process and the excavator was nice enough to remove stumps and what not. He did not touch all grass areas but I went ahead and put down Glyphosate at 3.5 oz/K so I could have uniformity with the grasses. I’ve sprayed a few times now. We are surrounded by forest.
Landscapers said they would top dress the killed grass areas mainly because machines have driven on the area so before they seed they are going to level the area.

I have also sprayed numerous applications of my SLS conditioning mixture in attempt to get a jump start on the excavation equipment soil compaction.

After they loam they will be hydro seeding… I questioned this but now that were are this late in the season I have no other option being that I need quick germination. No KBG lawn for now, just contractor seed. Bummer. Future reno?

Any advice for before or after loam/seed down? After they hydroseed, would it benefit me to apply a dosage of tenacity? Will that get worked in well enough with their hydro mix? Should I drop a starter fert if their mix doesn’t contain one?

I also grabbed my wife’s grandfathers reel mower… excited to use that. I am ready for the watering challenge... I will be using well water with plenty of faucet timers and many lengths of hose.

Falling leaves will be the death of me.

[andy10917]

You've got a few challenges there. Yes, the leaves are one. Another is that topdressing doesn't really address the compaction that the equipment causes - it merely hides/buries it. I hope it doesn't cause the seeds to germinate and then the roots hit a rock-hard layer - that would be "other-than-optimal".

I see you're in RI, but RI climate varies from the shore area to inland. You may get away with a no-KBG seeding though, as germination times are much shorter on a "contractor mix".

Your questions about Starter fertilizer can't be answered in an educated way - we have no way to know what the current levels are of the native soil or the loam.

[umbo514]

I am very worried about compaction in certain areas. It is my understanding that SLS can only help alleviate so much and mechanical aeration is required. That's why I asked the "landscaper" to aerate and he said he does not do that... whatttt? I could aerate problem areas by hand but I don't know if I could get my hands on a machine with this short timeline.

We are 12 minutes inland and have an average first frost Oct 17th I believe.

I understand your point on start fert. I kicked myself after reading your answer as I should have realized that. Any input on applying tenacity w/ the hydro mix?

[Pway]

I would never use contractor seed because it often introduces undesirable grasses that are difficult to get rid of. Maybe a northern mix or PRG rather than KBG alone due to timing. I agree with Andy on the problems of compacted soil.

[umbo514]

So after receiving over an inch of rain yesterday I went out to the backyard with a hand aerator to see what kind of compaction I have. I started in the main two spots of where the excavation machine was parked... after an hour or so of good exercise, I aerated those sections thoroughly (moderate compaction). I then tested various areas, and overall compaction was far better than I was expecting. I'm hoping for another application of BLSC tonight and hope for the best... if they arrive before the weekend.

[ndlutz]

As Pway said, I would not allow them to use a contractor mix. I would seed PRG for now. Home Depot generally sells large bags of the Lesco Double Eagle blend. I have been happy with this and it germinates very quickly. You'll have a lawn in about 30 days.

[agn015]

I ran into a similar situation last year on Long Island. Our average first frost is October 27. We had a massive oak tree removed right before frost and then the property was graded not once but twice inctroducing minor compaction to 90% of the yard.

Based on advice here I went with Hogan’s TTTF + 20% KY bluegrass rather than the contractors mix to reduce the amount of undesirable grasses and weeds in the seed. I don’t think I got seed down until november 1st and I don’t have irrigation. It was very thin during winter but by spring/summer I was happy with how thick the lawn became. I spoon fed in the spring with urea and milo to get it to really fill in. I still felt I needed to overseed this fall but at least I had the weed free seed I wanted in the ground already.

If I ran into the same situation again I don’t think there’s anything I would do differently. Except maybe commit to top dressing with peat moss. I didn’t use any top dressing (since my budget was busted) but the areas that received mulched leaves came in the best. I’m also extremely happy with the Hogan seed and support they provide. Make sure you use high quality 0% weed and 0% other crop seed. It really does make a big difference.

Best of luck with whatever you decide!

Search “ Yard will be graded near first frost” for details on what I went through last year.

[umbo514]

As Pway said, I would not allow them to use a contractor mix. I would seed PRG for now. Home Depot generally sells large bags of the Lesco Double Eagle blend. I have been happy with this and it germinates very quickly. You'll have a lawn in about 30 days.

So I have been thinking about picking up that exact same seed... I used it on my front overseeding and really like it so far. At around 11 k sqft I would need roughly 100 lbs of seed = $280. Expensive now but pay now and hopefully less later. How does PRG do in shade? Backyard is surrounded by trees so the shade varies throughout the season.

Anyone ever give their landscaper seed to mix into the hydro mixture?

[andy10917]

PRG is not great in the shade, but depending on the amount of shade may do OK with some overseeding in the shady areas. It germinates and matures so quickly that I call it a great "cheater's grass" (that's not an insult).

Others have supplied the seed to the hydro guys.

[umbo514]

Thanks Andy... actually because of your reviews, that's why I went with lesco double eagle to overseed my front lawn.

agn015... thank you for the post. I grew up in Mineola so I know LI well.

I read your post in the past but I gave it a good reread. It gives me hope, basically the same situation. Great job.

I just got off the phone with the contractor and he's doing the work tomorrow 9/21... I'm afraid I missed the seed window and I'm hesitant to pick up the lesco double eagle because of the amount of shade we have in the backyard. The house blocks morning sun and then the tree line blocks mid/late afternoon sun.

[ndlutz]

Good luck with your project. I hope it turns out nice for you.

[umbo514]

Well I have bad news... actually no news to update you guys with. The landscapers never showed and we're getting about 2 inches of rain today. Excuses after excuses. Everyday they delay makes this that much harder!

[umbo514]

So I will give you guys the cliffs notes to this long running reno… the contractors pulled every excuse in the books and FINALLY Oct 8th was seed down day. They spread 60 yards of loam over the 10k sqft back yard and side yard. Some of those areas already had top soil so they basically evened the areas out.

With all the problems plaguing this reno I decided against spending the money and handing over the seeds to the spreader because I honestly did not trust them. I will see what germinates and survives the winter and then reassess.

This morning I set up 9 zones, all on orbit hose faucet timers. I have decent coverage and can only hope I get a little help from Mother Nature with the upcoming rains this week. Temperatures for RI look good, mid 70’s during the day and low 60s at night till this Friday. So I hope that will give the seeds a head start with germination.

I am already dealing with a good amount of leaves and my plan is to blow off some tomorrow as I assume I should not walk on the seeds after the 3 day mark.

I’ll try and get some pictures up soon!

[umbo514]

Hope everyone did alright with this recent hurricane.

So far we have received 3+ inches of rain in a really short time period. I am worried about washout on parts that are slopped. I can only wait and see. I have saved a couple of pounds of lesco double eagle PRG from my front overseed, so I will spread some in the areas that were obviously effected by the strong rains. Fingers crossed; hoping to see some germination late this weekend.

[andy10917]

Don't panic and reseed too quickly. You can always do a quick repair in the Spring and by Memorial Day it will look perfect with PRG. Focus on keeping the Autumn leaves managed with what made it through, so that doesn't cause losses.

Please update your profile to specify the "Lawn Size" and "Experience Level", so we can tailor our responses to your situation.

[umbo514]

Don't panic and reseed too quickly. You can always do a quick repair in the Spring and by Memorial Day it will look perfect with PRG. Focus on keeping the Autumn leaves managed with what made it through, so that doesn't cause losses.

Andy, I took your advice and held off on reseeding... No signs of germination as of late last night. We've been seeing really close temperatures to our first frost, but I think we have till Thursday. So I'm really hoping I see some germination today. Today is seed down day # 7, so I know its kind of a lot to ask of to see germination with these cold of temperatures at night. I did a walk through while removing some leaves after the storm the other day... the grading seems to be working but where they planned all the water to go I also found a LOT of seeds... Trying to stay positive.

[umbo514]

It looks like we have patchy germination around the backyard and very little germination on the side yard. I'm thinking this is sun related because the side yard at this time of year does not see much direct sun. I put down some PRG (lesco DE) at the time they hydro seeded as a control and those spots germinated first at 7 days followed by the patchy germination I started seeing yesterday (day 8).

First frost looks like it will happen Thursday night... I can only hope it does not kill what has germinated already and I hope more germination can occur after if it warms up.

[andy10917]

Frost is not generally a killer, but it does cool the soil, which then slows the growth/germination. Keep your head up and focus on the long-term -- you can finish the job in the Spring, and thicken things up with the Philes regimen then.

[umbo514]

Thanks again Andy.

Looking for some recommendations... I'm starting to collect a lot of leaves in the reno area. Unfortunately its too large to clear the leaves without stepping on the newly germinated grass. Do I hold out till two weeks post germination or should I slowly and carefully walk through the new growth (I will definitely step on newly germinated grass) to clear the leaves? I had a thought to go around the perimeter and blow the leaves around every 2 days so at least they do not remain on the same batches of new grass.

[andy10917]

This is one of the big issues with late renovations that I always mention leads to lost sleep...

My opinion is that walking on the renovation is less harmful than allowing the leaves to mat down and block sunlight - that becomes a huge problem when wet leaves begin to freeze into clumps as light frosts move into full freezes in the morning. I'd advise that you use a back blower GENTLY (not on 100%) and minimize the amount that you walk around, but get those leaves off the lawn while you can.