Sleepless in Rexford - Scheming

[Green]

Very good. Now do your best to maintain over the Summer. New grass does not take well to infrequent watering, but at the same time, watering too often can increase fungal disease pressure. It's a balance, the best you can.

[KnickLeDime]

So I've moved forward and purchased 60lb of this blend..I have a large lawn, about 25ksqf...I'm hoping to overseed at a rate of about 2lb per/1ksqf. With some of the bare areas getting a bit more.




I'm nervous in that it's a lot of money but I have to trust all the hard-work I've done with judiciously applying tripple-19, milo, all the recommended micros by Andy all summer long has improved the soil to a degree that will be conducive and receptive to this mix going in.

Current state of affairs with respect to existing lawn is probably some of the best I've seen in my time here at this new property. Grass is a lush green, I do have some weed pressure but have been spot treating with weed-be-gone. Obviously as you can see earlier in this thread how much damage I had from grubs but shockingly 90% of the damaged areas have recovered but I'd be lying if a said it was thick many areas are still thin in spots with some of the worst damage having some very distinct gaps. It's trying to spread into there but I'm hopeful that the seed will help it along. I've been moving clippings in but for a few mows before putting seed down I'm going to bag.

I've decided against any slit-seeding, no dethathing of any kind. Here is my concerns...hopefully I can get some feedback on them. I've read the overseed guide and will follow watering requirements etc.

- My intention is to rake up the distinctly bare areas and then cover them with pete moss to help them.
- Due to the size of the lawn...I have no idea how to top dress the entire lawn...am I wasting money/seed by just throwing the seed down once the lawn is scalped and watering per recommendations?

Maybe it's something I just won't know until I do it...

[KnickLeDime]

I'm sorry...not scalped but cut very very short...

[andy10917]

- My intention is to rake up the distinctly bare areas and then cover them with pete moss to help them.
- Due to the size of the lawn...I have no idea how to top dress the entire lawn...am I wasting money/seed by just throwing the seed down once the lawn is scalped and watering per recommendations?

Maybe it's something I just won't know until I do it...

I'd do what you're planning, but in a different order...

I'd put the seed down and THEN put the peat moss down. I have done a 16K renovation by doing that, and believe it or not, I rolled a wheelbarrow around and flung the peat moss into the air and let it rain down gently for a 1/8" layer - 16K took maybe 90 minutes to do. There are also peat moss spreaders that you may be able to rent. Maybe someone here knows how to rent one and what to ask for - I just figured that by the time I I got it and brought it back, I could be done with the job by hand (pun intended). Note: you will be filthy after doing it.

Trapping the seed UNDER the peat moss is advisable as it keeps the seed from being dried out, and the birds don't get to it either then.

Are you going to apply Tenacity at seed-down, and are you going to add SoilMoist Seed Coat to the seed at seed-down?

[KnickLeDime]

- My intention is to rake up the distinctly bare areas and then cover them with pete moss to help them.
- Due to the size of the lawn...I have no idea how to top dress the entire lawn...am I wasting money/seed by just throwing the seed down once the lawn is scalped and watering per recommendations?

Maybe it's something I just won't know until I do it...

I'd do what you're planning, but in a different order...

I'd put the seed down and THEN put the peat moss down. I have done a 16K renovation by doing that, and believe it or not, I rolled a wheelbarrow around and flung the peat moss into the air and let it rain down gently for a 1/8" layer - 16K took maybe 90 minutes to do. There are also peat moss spreaders that you may be able to rent. Maybe someone here knows how to rent one and what to ask for - I just figured that by the time I I got it and brought it back, I could be done with the job by hand (pun intended). Note: you will be filthy after doing it.

Trapping the seed UNDER the peat moss is advisable as it keeps the seed from being dried out, and the birds don't get to it either then.

Are you going to apply Tenacity at seed-down, and are you going to add SoilMoist Seed Coat to the seed at seed-down?

I may have articulated the order wrong but I was thinking in my head exactly what you suggested...seed down and then spread peat moss.

I was reading another thread and caught wind of this soilmoist...reading up on it now but it's so cheap, not sure why on earth I wouldn't go with it considering I just spent like 400 bucks on seed...lol

Need to read up more on tenacity, I've seen it all over the place on these forums but I'd be lying if I said I knew what it was for.

[KnickLeDime]

- My intention is to rake up the distinctly bare areas and then cover them with pete moss to help them.
- Due to the size of the lawn...I have no idea how to top dress the entire lawn...am I wasting money/seed by just throwing the seed down once the lawn is scalped and watering per recommendations?

Maybe it's something I just won't know until I do it...

I'd do what you're planning, but in a different order...

I'd put the seed down and THEN put the peat moss down. I have done a 16K renovation by doing that, and believe it or not, I rolled a wheelbarrow around and flung the peat moss into the air and let it rain down gently for a 1/8" layer - 16K took maybe 90 minutes to do. There are also peat moss spreaders that you may be able to rent. Maybe someone here knows how to rent one and what to ask for - I just figured that by the time I I got it and brought it back, I could be done with the job by hand (pun intended). Note: you will be filthy after doing it.

Trapping the seed UNDER the peat moss is advisable as it keeps the seed from being dried out, and the birds don't get to it either then.

Are you going to apply Tenacity at seed-down, and are you going to add SoilMoist Seed Coat to the seed at seed-down?

Andy, one last question...any idea how much peat moss you used on that 16k application?

I don't even know how to judge how much I'd need...I know it's dirty cheap.

[andy10917]

Tenacity (Mesotrione) behaves as a pre-emergent (not as good as a real pre-emergent like Dimension or Prodiamine, but a big help) and can be used as the liquid spray if you already have it, or as the Scott's Starter + Weed Preventer granular. The shallow/freequent watering after seed-down is going to cause weeds to germinate too, so this is a pretty good way to minimize dealing with yet one more headache...

[andy10917]

Let me go back to my notes/thread to check...

[andy10917]

Here's what I wrote during the renovation:

I like peat moss because a) it is sterile and b) it is lightweight and c) it's easy to transport around the yard. It's much more expensive here: a 3.0 cu ft bale is $9.97. We applied it in a decidedly-manual manner - one of us (mostly me) cut the bales in half and transported them to a wheelbarrow moving around the backyard, while the other guy put his arms into the wheelbarrow and threw the stuff into the air. It rained down as a very heavy dusting. When done, we wandered around with rakes and touched-up a few spots where it wasn't the depth I wanted (around 1/8"). We used 20 bales.

I find the peat moss can shed water for a short while when brand-new (mildly hydrophobic). A watering, a 30 minute wait and another watering puts an end to that. I have no problems with peat moss breaking down - I could almost hear the microherd saying "Oh! Dinner!". Maybe that's the product of the heavy leaf-feedings it gets.

Here's a link to that section of the Renovation Thread (2013):

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11817&start=100#p162163

[KnickLeDime]

Thank you Andy...will load up on peat moss and give it a go after seed goes down.

[KnickLeDime]

Saw this come up in another thread and had a question...I put down SiteOnes Pre-M (Dimension) on April 24th lawn is almost entirely sun most of the day other then the shadow the house casts and a few small trees.

I'm targeting overseed seed down Week of Aug 19 or Week of Aug 26...any chance the Pre-M could interfere with the overseed or am I pretty safe?

[andy10917]

Too many variables to answer with any certainty. The application rate, the rainfall/irrigation, the amount of light, the temperatures and the soil all can affect the length of time the product remains effective. As was written in other threads, the only way to know for sure is to do a test patch and see the results.

[KnickLeDime]

Ok...will do that...

[KnickLeDime]

Hey Andy,

What are you thoughts on doing the aggressive fall winterization program with Urea on a lawn that was over-seeded Aug 24th? It's only been a few days but as of today there hasn't been any germination yet. I don't want to do any damage to the young seedlings with an aggressive N plan.

[andy10917]

It's OK, but there are some challenges to consider. In a lawn that contains both PR and KBG, the PR will germinate and start/finish the Sprout-and-Pout stage long before the KBG does. It's not a great idea to push growth on the PR hard while the KBG is still germinating or in Sprout-and-Pout. The PR will dominate and shade out the KBG if you do that. Wait until both have germinated and completed Sprout-and-Pout to get aggressive.

[KnickLeDime]

It's OK, but there are some challenges to consider. In a lawn that contains both PR and KBG, the PR will germinate and start/finish the Sprout-and-Pout stage long before the KBG does. It's not a great idea to push growth on the PR hard while the KBG is still germinating or in Sprout-and-Pout. The PR will dominate and shade out the KBG if you do that. Wait until both have germinated and completed Sprout-and-Pout to get aggressive.

Ok, how long do you reckon for the KBG after seeding should the sprout-and-pout conclude?

It will certainly limit number of Urea applications as I'm assuming germination for KBG will be anywhere from 2-3 weeks. I'm not sure how long the sprout and pout time frame runs typically.

[andy10917]

Typically, KBG germinates in 14-21 days, grows for 5-7 days and then goes into Sprout-and-Pout for 1-2 weeks, as the roots establish. It is difficult to see when it beginning to grow again when there is a lot of PR in the area.

[KnickLeDime]

Typically, KBG germinates in 14-21 days, grows for 5-7 days and then goes into Sprout-and-Pout for 1-2 weeks, as the roots establish. It is difficult to see when it beginning to grow again when there is a lot of PR in the area.

Ok, if all is going well, I'll probably tentatively plan on the Urea program around start of October depending on how it's looking.

On a slightly different tangent...right now I'm watering the lawn 2 times a day per overseed instructions 15min per zone (8 zones) once at 9am and again at 4pm. I notice the ground which is quite sandy not being damp the entire time. I probably should add a 3rd watering and drop the duration to 10min per zone...thoughts?

[andy10917]

Makes sense. After the grass is up and growing OK, slowly decrease the number of cycles and increase the length.

[KnickLeDime]

Quick question...does seed go bad if stored dry?

I put down about 48 pounds of the seed I bought but kept about 4lb back for spot repairs maybe next spring etc. should I need it.

Since I put the seed down about 12 days ago, I've had a few small sections die out either because of heat or maybe over-watering the last 12 days...I wonder if I should just rake them up and put the remaining see down or keep the seed in reserve.

Possible a dumb question but for how long is seed viable in storage? If it's going to be no good by next spring or fall, perhaps I should just drop the rest.