Sleepless in Rexford - Scheming

[KnickLeDime]

I'm 100% positive between the widespread (very widespread) appearance of pencil sized holes, skunks and others animals digging up the ground, at least 3 or 4 moles all over both front and back yard, the turf rolling up like a rug in most places, spot checks that showed 10+ grubs per sqf that a significant amount of this damage is grub related. I however did not help myself with over-watering leading to a shallow root system. In my ignorance and without realizing what was going on I tried to throw water at it...lesson learned!!!!

As I keep revisiting my action last summer, I need to point out that in late August I raked up what was dead at the time dead stuff and put down a big bag of Scotts all purpose grass mix in an effort to overseed, of course almost none of it even came up as I hadn't at all dealt with the grub issue nor soil chemistry. Of course as we moved through September more and more of the lawn died!

I know...I know...I'm a complete freaking hot mess...feels like I did everything wrong.

I understand the soil test in mid to late march will tell me how to correct the soil/nutrient deficiencies and prepare with your help a fertilization plan.

I still don't know what to do about grubs to ensure they are all dead. Was putting Bayer grub killer the right move in late September? What product should I use next spring to protect the lawn from whatever is left as it comes up to feed? When is the optimal time for my region to put the recommended grub control down? As I understand it, grubs go deep to survive winter, will come up in mid-spring to resume feeding and then hatch and lay new eggs in mid-summer who then hatch and start feeding like crazy in late summer. How do I break this cycle, when and with what product? As I see it, my acute need is to deal with the pests in the lawn as I spend all summer getting soil chemistry right in preparation for a late August repair of whatever doesn't recover.

My assumption is as we go through the summer, grubs are dealt with and I start to put the right mix of nutrients into the soil, perhaps some of the damage will recover but I know I'm in a rough spot. I know the pictures I posted are pretty dire but there are other areas in the lawn that I think will recover as they were very weak but alive.

[KnickLeDime]

In the process of reading Water Balance Irrigation document, it speaks about soil structure etc. If the soil structure test will be helpful in constructing an appropriate irrigation plan, I'm all for getting it.

[andy10917]

That's your call. It's really only a confirming test that backs up the TEC number. I'm sensitive to new lawn folks getting too many expenditures in the first year -- some go full-tilt and either they or their spouse get upset with the extra costs, and quit as an "expensive hobby" -- it really doesn't need to be that way. If you decide to renovate, save the cash for that.

[KnickLeDime]

If not necessary then we'll save the money...

[ken-n-nancy]

I'm 100% positive ... this damage is grub related. ...

I still don't know what to do about grubs to ensure they are all dead.

Read the article linked below, "How to choose and when to apply grub control products for your lawn." It is my "go-to article" for grub control in lawns. It gets updated every year by the Michigan State University folks.

https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/how_to_ch ... _your_lawn

Basically, you need to apply a preventative in the spring of 2019, to prevent problems in the late summer of 2019. I would suggest chlorantraniliprole, as recommended in the article. Chlorantraniliprole is effective against grubs and avoids harming beneficial populations of bees and earthworms. The only gotcha is that you have to plan a little further ahead in order to use it, as it really needs to be applied in April or May to have enough time to get where it will be needed in July. (By the way, the most common chlorantraniliprole in big box stores is Scott's GrubEx, available basically everywhere.)

I would hope that your applications this fall would have killed off current populations of grubs in your lawn, so that a curative application in the spring is not also necessary. If, after reading the article, you think you still may have a problem with grubs in your lawn (given how many you dug up recently, you may still have a major problem) than an early spring (April) application of a curative may be in order.

[KnickLeDime]

I'm 100% positive ... this damage is grub related. ...

I still don't know what to do about grubs to ensure they are all dead.

Read the article linked below, "How to choose and when to apply grub control products for your lawn." It is my "go-to article" for grub control in lawns. It gets updated every year by the Michigan State University folks.

https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/how_to_ch ... _your_lawn

Basically, you need to apply a preventative in the spring of 2019, to prevent problems in the late summer of 2019. I would suggest chlorantraniliprole, as recommended in the article. Chlorantraniliprole is effective against grubs and avoids harming beneficial populations of bees and earthworms. The only gotcha is that you have to plan a little further ahead in order to use it, as it really needs to be applied in April or May to have enough time to get where it will be needed in July. (By the way, the most common chlorantraniliprole in big box stores is Scott's GrubEx, available basically everywhere.)

I would hope that your applications this fall would have killed off current populations of grubs in your lawn, so that a curative application in the spring is not also necessary. If, after reading the article, you think you still may have a problem with grubs in your lawn (given how many you dug up recently, you may still have a major problem) than an early spring (April) application of a curative may be in order.

Great, read...thank you...bookmarked. I'll make it a point to do a lot of spot checks around the middle April and if I feel like I'm seeing to many I'll put down corrective if not, I'll do preventive.

Gonna watch it like a hawk!

[Green]

Ken-n-Nancy has good advice on grub prevention. To add to it, I would suggest using the Chlorantraniliprole as the second thing you do next Spring, right after the soil test samples are collected. I would get the Scott's Grubex1 brand. It's readily available and nice fine particles that spread easily. Make sure to read up/watch tutorials on spreader application patterns and methods this Winter, and apply it at the rate suggested on the bag evenly (2.87 lbs per thousand square feet). This stuff takes about 3 months to fully activate, so that's why applying it as early in April as you can is the best thing you can do.

[KnickLeDime]

Ken-n-Nancy has good advice on grub prevention. To add to it, I would suggest using the Chlorantraniliprole as the second thing you do next Spring, right after the soil test samples are collected. I would get the Scott's Grubex1 brand. It's readily available and nice fine particles that spread easily. Make sure to read up/watch tutorials on spreader application patterns and methods this Winter, and apply it at the rate suggested on the bag evenly (2.87 lbs per thousand square feet). This stuff takes about 3 months to fully activate, so that's why applying it as early in April as you can is the best thing you can do.

Consider it done, never missing another application of GrubEx...

[Green]

Consider it done, never missing another application of GrubEx...

Exactly. You should do it every year for at least a few years to knock them down to manageable levels, regardless of whether or not you end up needing a curative again (and you might...so definitely keep an eye out for them this Spring and Summer). The preventative will not prevent last year's, if there are still any left by next year.

[KnickLeDime]

We are coming up on end of February...I'm assuming as soon as the ground thaws out I can gather the samples and send off to Logan Labs?

[andy10917]

Yes - I'm 100 miles south of you. I start around March 15th if I'm looking to start before the grass greens up.

[KnickLeDime]

Yes - I'm 100 miles south of you. I start around March 15th if I'm looking to start before the grass greens up.

Thank, I'll be ready to go and will post results once I have them in this thread for analysis. Thank you again for all the help.

[KnickLeDime]

So it's March, I know lots of snow on the ground etc but...towards the end of March early April should I be planning any kind of crab grass application or literally do nothing until I get test results.

I'll also be watching very closely for any grubs emerging that may have survived last years annihilation

[andy10917]

There is no interaction between Crabgrass Pre-M and anything involved in the soil test - just make sure that the Pre-M is not mixed with fertilizer, which could skew the test results.

The time to apply Pre-M is when the Forsythia bloom in your town.

[Green]

Since most granular pre emergents I've used have contained some level of fertilizer macronutrients--often SOP or MOP, and sometimes Nitrogen, I prefer to take any soil samples prior applying it.

Full forsythia bloom...I ignored the preliminary festivities that year a few blooms appeared in Feb.

[KnickLeDime]

Do you guys have a preference for pre-emergent or the standard Scotts or Jonathan Green stuff?

[turf_toes]

Do you guys have a preference for pre-emergent or the standard Scotts or Jonathan Green stuff?

Dimension or Barricade. The Halts product has a very short period of protection (two months).

Dimension has 4 and Barricade up to 8.

[KnickLeDime]

Do you guys have a preference for pre-emergent or the standard Scotts or Jonathan Green stuff?

Dimension or Barricade. The Halts product has a very short period of protection (two months).

Dimension has 4 and Barricade up to 8.

Considering that I'm going to have to fix and seed large parts of the lawn...Dimension looks like the right fit.

[KnickLeDime]

I'm sorry...I'm probably being really dumb but from looking on TheAndersons website...page 18 of their catalog appears to have many options for Herbicides with Dimension. Can anyone provide some clarify what product to hunt for?

https://assets.andersonsplantnutrient.c ... re_C19.pdf

[Green]

To expand on tuf_toes's point...

The reason the Scotts Pendimethalin (recently renamed "WeedEx") does not last long (I had crabgrass break through in mid Summer with it) is because being a consumer product, they list lower application rates than the pro products with the same active ingredient. The scientific reason for this is because it's too harsh on your grass roots at higher amounts. Some pros get by this by using a split application...applying twice consecutively to cover 4 months (and reaching the yearly maximum in the process). So, the product appears less expensive but actually is not when you factor everything in.

Dimension and Prodiamine are more cost effective and last longer, while not as harsh on your grass roots, so most people (pros and hobbyists alike) use them. If you're dealing primarily with crabgrass and just a few broadleaf weeds, they will work fine. If you had equal proportions crabgrass and broadleaf weeds last year and want something to block both, Pendimethalin is actually a somewhat more effective choice when applied as the labels on the pro versions suggest (twice, about 2 months apart).